46 Reply by UnbiddenTruth (edited by UnbiddenTruth 2005-05-11 07:28:38)

  • UnbiddenTruth
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Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

I'm going to finish reading this forum later when I have more time, but here's my take on the very nature of that question.

I believe in what I experience and I believe in myself to be able to generate experience not agreed upon by previously developed criterion by way of awareness and creativity. Last night I was able to detect the 'feeling' of my friend's ankles just by.. wanting to help and doing it. This friend is on the opposite side of the country, and independant verification of sensations, etc, allowed a real experience. I cannot proove it to anyone else, nor is it important that I do. The fact is since I've been getting more and more capable at energy work, I have healed and 'de-aged' our pet german shephard by about 5 years in two weeks, an old cat now looks about 3 years yonger in 2 weeks (though he's a stubborn old man, I don't expect him to go as fast as the shephard anyway, but trust me, not from lack of trying!) and etc. I have proof in the sense of people who've seen the quick transition, but I could never proove it in a scientifically documented fashion, because my intentions were to DO it, not try and experiement it.

Maybe that one is more proovable, but it is quite suggestive. Let's just say that arthritis that the shephard was suffering from seems to have dissapated into simple tired limbs rather than pain by the way she uses and walks with them now as compared to two weeks ago.

So what I'm trying to say, perhaps, is what must be prooven to all others to be true to the experience of those who are involved in an event? Isn't that a part of the quantum physics theoretical experience? (I've only touched on that in a variety of areas, without actually going into deep investigation)

  • Registered: 2005-02-08

Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

montalk wrote:

That was well put, Cipher smile One of the more intriguing ideas I've come across is that WE are the Fallen Ones. This makes sense if mankind as a whole can be considered 3D STS -- this world  of killing and eating and consuming and surviving, together with the myths about us once occupying a more exalted spiritual state. The question is which course of experience we as individuals choose next - further falling or a return home. Either way, it is all in the name of experience.

I've had a lot of time to think about this possibility, and I'd like to share some of what I came up with.

Start off with an episode of the Twilight Zone where a small-time criminal (named "Angel") dies and goes to heaven. Everything is perfect, and he can't lose in anything he tries. Initially he enjoys fine clothes, women, food and drink. He gambles and wins every time. Later in the show he starts to become bored and asks his guide if it'd be okay for him to check out the "other place" just for a change of pace. At this point the guide diabolically informs him that this IS the other place and that he gets to live in it - forever.

I think that being elevated into becoming God is a foolish trap for those unable to see the possible consequences. If one were to enjoy the company of an unlimited number of ego-perspectives, (the STO plan incorporates this ideal) it could be a wonderful thing. But if one were on top of the mountian all alone, (as required by the STS mentality) after some initial pleasures and score-settling, it would be eternally boring. Where I'm going with this is that someone may have fallen into this trap while completely devoted to the STS mindset, so within this context, our lives may be nothing more than the manefistations of deep madness originating from an uber-STS creature that is suffering from extreme sensory deprivation and social isolation. If you doubt this, consider that if you were in such a pitiful state, how long it would take for you to create an entire reality in your mind to play with in order to have something to do?

Therefore, it is possible that we ARE just shards of some uber-STS being, which having realized how utterly foolish it's been, is going about trying to find a way to get some company, but isn't quite aware about how to go about it. To make complete redress for all of it's transgressions would be instantly "fatal" so it's trying to ease it's way in one soul at a time. Add into the mix: an immense community of STO beings which are already done with the "I told you so" mental framework, and are now attempting to reunify with this entity. Why they would do this is obvious: they realize that eventually, the way to completion will be in reunification within the STO framework, and as daunting as this task may seem, they have all the time in the universe to achieve it.

48 Reply by Jen

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Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

GibbleTronic wrote:

I think that being elevated into becoming God is a foolish trap for those unable to see the possible consequences. If one were to enjoy the company of an unlimited number of ego-perspectives, (the STO plan incorporates this ideal) it could be a wonderful thing. But if one were on top of the mountian all alone, (as required by the STS mentality) after some initial pleasures and score-settling, it would be eternally boring. Where I'm going with this is that someone may have fallen into this trap while completely devoted to the STS mindset, so within this context, our lives may be nothing more than the manefistations of deep madness originating from an uber-STS creature that is suffering from extreme sensory deprivation and social isolation. If you doubt this, consider that if you were in such a pitiful state, how long it would take for you to create an entire reality in your mind to play with in order to have something to do?

Loved the Twilight Zone example, GibbleTronic (though I didn't quote it here). And, it reminds me of what Ra said about planets without polarity, that it was a very unproductive, boring and stagnant situation, not quite the paradise that some might expect.

And, your conjecture above is very interesting, but I don't believe we are simply manifestations of an "uber-STS creature."  We are manifestations of the All and we are the All, which by definition, is not confined to any one orientation or way of being.

That said--many sources such as Ra, Cayce and others do say that the Oneness essentially got bored and wanted some action, so it got the idea to break itself up in to parts and set them free to evolve by making their own freewill choices. The plan was that ultimately all the pieces would be reunited in a much more interesting state, having had all those varied lives and experiences.  Plenty to talk about, for sure.

smile
Jen

49 Reply by Jen

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Re: "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?"

montalk wrote:

One of the more intriguing ideas I've come across is that WE are the Fallen Ones.

This is the idea behind the concept of "original sin" in Christianity.  Through eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we
plunged into polarity and the matter world, and separated ourselves from the Oneness.  Polarity and sin are the same thing. In this context, though, it is not so much about judgment, but more an acknowledgment that we pay a price for this knowledge (experience) of good and evil. 

And, there's an interesting discussion about all this here from a Theosophical perspective:  http://theosophy.org/tlodocs/SpiritMindandMatter.htm

Excerpt:

Instead of seeing the descent of spirit into matter in terms of some sort of Fall linked to sin, one should come to see human beings as gods who are fallen only in the sense that they have become obscured. They have through the density of matter merely become forgetful. This should be seen as a sacred and sacrificial process necessary for evolution to work itself out fully on the plane of physical matter. To see this, however, is also to understand that there is another side to the process.

    If there is an involution of spirit into matter, there must be an evolution of spirit out of matter which carries with it all beings in a conscious return to the source. This return to the source is enacted at a microcosmic level every time a human being meditates, but it can be done much more self-consciously. To do this, to become one with the true 'Maker' within oneself, one must die to the cries and pleadings, the fascination and noise, of the exterior physical world. The tragedy of many people is that they find no reason to be glamorized by the world, but at the same time they remain terrified of the inner life. They shy away from the lonely abyss of meditation. Fearful of their own fallibility, lacking confidence in themselves and Nature, they are lost between two worlds.