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I looked at some of the other threads close to this subject and decided to make a new one. I'm aiming this to be about the idea of money in the abstract and where we go with it as America, as Earth, whatever.
For the sake of discussion I'm sort of assuming no major Earth Changes will cause a jarring collapse or rearrangement. That could still happen and if it does any of this could still apply, but as far as my focus is concerned it's on a continued steady deterioration toward a bona-fide dystopia and how to prevent it. I'm operating under the vague aspiration that between now and the end of 2012 or whatever there may be enough of a mass consciousness awakening that positive directed human change could very well be possible.
What does everyone think of money? I mean as an abstract idea of an officially sanctioned medium of energy exchange? Some say it's neutral, some say it's inherently corruptive/corrosive and should be done away with in an ideal state of being, but it's pretty safe to say that what we have now has a severely unhealthy amount of leeches attached to it and they're sucking away energy to grow tumors to house SUVs and factory farms and everything else that exists in excess if money wasn't allocated so poorly.
I've recently had a revelation about money. I already knew about the World Banking System and how it was a central part of the STS operational dominion or something equally yucky, and how it made me angry to have to continue to be a part of it just to continue a semblance of a barely even remotely "normal" life without trying to completely drop off the grid. I thought the problem was somehow related to the machinations used to trick the lamentably ignorant public into thinking that handy paper was somehow better or more useful than commodity-value coins, and the acquiescence and abdication of people in authority who just let the bankers have it all and kepk giving it away; each time they took another slice of what the average person had available to have control over the way they lived their life. But throughout history it did go back and forth and the balance of power would shift. Unfortunately over the last 100 year or so it seems to have been a steady decline toward Centralbankopoly.
Realizing "fiat" money is intrinsically worthless and that historically it has always crashed is part of the picture, as is knowing that the supposedly "metal backed" money systems of the past are almost equally as controlling and convoluted. As many people here might agree, it doesn't really matter what we use for money as long as we agree on it and it works fairly. It can be electronic, it can involve symbols, it can be anything we imagine. But taking what we have now and transitioning it toward something just is a specific and complex problem. It would need to be done with full awareness by organized forces able to demand political as well as humanitarian respect. And to try and do it all at once in the case of some Dark Horse getting elected president or something would be, as I heard a progressive political analyst put it once "like taking the teeth out of a tiger one at a time".
Of course there are loads of resources on the 'net and here are a few I've come across recently:
"The Money Masters" movie and site with copies of things such as their "Monetary Reform Act" and links to other material:
The movie is available in various forms on google video and youtube if you just do a search. So is one called "Money as Debt" that contains similar information. Since those venues are currently pretty sketch I have to wonder if linking directly will just get those particular copies taken down faster.
a Money as Debt site linked from the above:
It seems to have a lot of good articles, and a bit of a derisive political slant on it all that's common to the subject matter. Here's a good one on why going back to a precious metal standard isn't a good answer:
The American Monetary Institute, linked from there
This page has a big powerpoint presentation that explains a lot of the same stuff, and the link on the front is broken right now so it's kind of secret! :
I know this is pretty wonky stuff and it doesn't necessarily seem interesting or useful at first. But I'm becoming convinced that this is one of THE main linchpin issues holding the slavery matrix et al together and it's being done right in front of everyone's eyes, simply because most people will never take the time to understand it and the ones who do usually get depressed about the hopelessness of it all. Familiar story, I know. But we seem to be in a period of change and entering into an ever greater one, right? Probably? And to get to what's next involves us all envisioning it and working toward it, right?
Does anyone know what we should try to do, just working on the assumption that it might actually work if we tried? It sure would be fun to just dismantle the whole think like it deserves, maybe we should just tell our friends and neighbors to vote for people who want that in the 2008 election!!!!! Seriously, having the United States and other countries just print their own money for things they would have to tax for otherwise seems like a sensible start. Of course it would undoubtedly bring on a massive attach from the Albino Shapeshifting Lizard Bitches and we'd have to be ready for it as a nation/planet/people. Any thoughts? Thanks for reading this far!
I have never found any good in money. Whenever money is involved with something, it always becomes a motivation, making it less sincere and legitimate. When there is no money involved, you know whatever is happening has value in itself. I guess my suggestion would be to get rid of money, and help each other out as needed, but maybe I'm just naieve.
This is an interesting theory, if a tad optimistic. (starting over economic systems, agree that LIFE is the most valuable asset we have and back money with its ability to support and sustain life) Good luck convincing everyone They'll come around.
What does everyone think of money?
Money can be used to help or harm people, it's just another one of those resources that can be used depending on the motives of the person using or desiring it. Consider the following scenario, which person is more 'materialistic':
A person buying a car from a car dealer.
A person meditating.
It depends on their motives. The person buying the car could be surprising a friend for their birthday and the person meditating could be thinking about buying cigarettes.
Money is great because it can extend the service you can give to the world. That's the sort of perspective that will magnetise money into your life. A conflicting perspective will repel money.
Thanks for the links meta,
There's a couple of new ones there for me.
I think it's imperative for us all to discover the true sense of money, creditor and debtor relationships, and how to operate as principal, or someone who is competent to adminster their own affairs.
Maybe if enough people figured this out, the government could actually become accountable for their actions again.
Also, I really like to see local communities that are printing their own money for exchanges aswell.
Money to me personally is that it is a necessary evil. Or rather a bit of a pain to produce and keep, but without I'm not going anywhere fast in this world. I guess money itself isn't evil at all, it's just that it is surrounded by such a negative 'aura' so to speak. So many nasty or boring activities involve it, negative attitudes towards it; 'it's a pain'- my own attitude to 'I LOVE MONEY! MINE MINE MINE!' so speaks the greedy business man/woman.
That is what money is for me.
"Accumulated wealth gives legitimacy to a life unexamined"
"Money is the spectacle which grants the blind the vision to see beyond necessity"
Last edited by titmouse_ (2007-12-30 16:15:09)
"Money is the spectacle which grants the blind the vision to see beyond necessity"
What????? Money is the answer to lifes problems , how do you know that and can I have some money?
Last edited by Piece_ofnothing (2007-12-30 20:49:00)
Wow, I've been busy and this is the first I've noticed these replies! Along with everyone I'm struggling with how to say goodbye to this place and how to continue on beyond. But along with figuring out where to go from "here" here, this is equally if not more important:
Due to my location, circumstance and predilections I can't help but keep researching this admittedly yucky subject (sound familiar? which one's your favorite? please post the thread for this discussion if there already is one). The links below I came across recently and I consider them both of paramount importance, for this subject anyway. I believe they directly address many of the comments above.
The first is an academic paper detailing comparisons of our economy(ies) to ecosystems and the Banksters as parasites. I referenced this metaphor reflexively up above, and it seems to be pretty common (along with cancer) in critiques throughout the ages. It has a lot of math/calculus so minds like Tom/Montalk's and others like him could probably do way more with it than me, but the concepts explained alongside should make sense to anyone. I came across it in the comments section of an editorial piece about banking machinations on indie media lefty article site alternet.org. I believe the poster suggested Lincoln and/or JFK may have been put to end by these forces. Not a new concept around here, but this critique is spot on in so many ways so far.
The second one is the second source listed in the academic paper above. So far it suggests a larger conspiracy about how the Elite wage a "Quiet War" with "Silent Weapons" and how it got this way.
I'm not even finished with either of them and normally I'd finish before passing them on, but as you all know we're operating under a deadline here. I wish all the best and will address that in a different post, but I feel this information needs to get out to anyone who can make use of it and even those who don't think they can, just so they're aware. Anyone's/everyone's circumstance may change instantly and being ready to point it in the right direction could make all the difference. If only five people look at the above links but ten mean monitors do and try to come and get me because I'm bringing up that pesky presidential assassination motive material again, tough shit for everyone. Who knows how much time we have left, to sit and enjoy the internet or anything else this deeply flawed but beautiful planet has to offer. I wish I had time to keep up and say multiple proper goodbyes but we all struggle on. Don't stop believin'