Topic: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

Zeitgeist the new “truth” movie being promoted by its makers on conspiracy message boards around the internet has been thoroughly debunked. It is disgusting to think the makers would try to sell it as a “truth movie” considering that it has dozens (over 50) easily provable factual errors. This is a slap in the face to the people who have died and will continue to do so in this patriot movement, we would expect nothing less than 100% accuracy of any movie in the 911 truth realm. We are talking about specific false claims that have been debunked for years, yet because this is the first time its been put into a form of a movie It has new life. This is not about a defense of a religion, it is about the integrity of information and our right not to be lied to by people claiming to be “truthers”
Lets take a look at the references the makers of this movie list as their sources for this information on their website: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm

You will notice that they don’t site one single original source for the Jesus similarities they claim exist, you would think if it was true that the ancient texts showed such similarities, they would simply site these ancient texts. They don’t because they do not exist, Its quite simple, They instead offer books from authors such as Tim Leedom, Massey, Acharya, Doherty. This is laughable as a resource list if you have looked in to these claims. It’s the equivalent as me referencing Glenn Beck to prove there is no 911 conspiracy. I know its hard to believe that Tsarion or Alan Watt  have been quoting known disinfo in their dissemination of this idea, but look for yourself, The numerous claims made by this movie concerning Jesus’s many similarities are either true or false. Before I move on here are the links to various debunkings of the “Christ myth”

Here is a great look at the ridiculous claims of most of the authors on that list (how they get away with this stuff is beyond rational thought)
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
This is another that site handles the major deities and does so with tremendous references.
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_ … ities.html
I like the next site because no stone is left unturned in his search for more and more "Christ myths deities" to debunk, he has about 80 claims looked in to here:
http://kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html
Because this movie spent so much time claiming the similarities of hours and Jesus here is a specific debunking to show how clearly uninformed in mythology and how easily duped the makers of this film are in making this claim.
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html
Now for Leedoms "Virishna" I wish there was more information to go on, but there is no such deity, at least in our earth's currently verifiable history. he apparently didn't bother with fact checking. Here is one account of the hunt for Virishna from an earlier source:
http://kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusVirishna.html

This movie also tries to make the claim that the Catholic churches pagan ideals, symbolism ,and rituals are somehow proof that Christianity itself is a part of this, nothing could be further from the truth. Lets take December 25th mentioned at least a dozen times in the film. The date of December 25th, which was officially proclaimed by the church fathers in A.D. 440, was actually a vestige of the Roman holiday of Saturnalia, observed near the winter solstice, which itself was among the many pagan traditions inherited from the earlier Babylonian priesthood. Any person that doesn’t drool on themselves will tell you that nowhere in the bible is this date mentioned or inferred in ANY way. It is ludicrous to say that and pagan rituals involving this date can be linked to Christianity before the catholic church got a hold of the idea, that is, ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER. This illustrates that the Vatican has very little to do with true Christianity except for the obvious problem that they themselves always claim that they ARE Christianity.
Ill put it this way:

I know, the catholic church very well may be terribly evil, It stands to reason that that is where evil would want to set up shop. but lets please stop using its pagan based rituals to prove anything about Christianities founder. Yes, the "church" does seem to be used as a control mechanism…TO CONTROL YOUR PERCEPTION OF CHRISTIANITY. It seems so obvious. Jesus was actually one of the most anti-religious people that ever walked the earth He had compassion for every low down person he came into contact with, except for the "clergy" of his day. They were the only people he ever spoke a harsh word to..maby a few money changers too. The guy in the new testament would be freaking furious with an organization that claims the kind of things the Vatican claims.


Now, on to one of my favorite subjects, the Zodiac, or the Mazzaroth. This movie’s half truths and outright lies about the zodiac are sickening. The unfortunate thing is that you have to know a good deal about science, history, mythology, astronomy, and physics in order to start to even understand what is at play with this system. It is not as simple as many are led to think And because of a lack of diligent study and an overabundance of half assed research, people swallow what they are told without questioning or learning anything further.
I warn you, if you REALLY want to know what the zodiac is, if you want to know why the illuminated groups venerate the “as above so below” maxim, it wont be easy, and you will have to go to “school”, the long and the short of it is that the system, and its use and history, have been perverted to show and do things are believed only because of what you are NOT told. it is a matter of withholding information as much or more that mis-information. The truth is stranger than the half truth.
I will put some links here for those who wish to look into this, I encourage everyone who cares to do so:
http://www.ldolphin.org/zodiac/
http://server.firefighters.org/catalog/1998/00452.mp3
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 8536095474
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 8728948984

You can argue with me about a lot of things here (and Im sure you will) but that this movie has a great deal of factual errors is not up for debate, as I said most of these claims were debunked 100 years ago. I am very worried about the future of this truth movement of which I am proudly a part of, I know that a division on dogmatic grounds is coming, and that all the great work we have done exposing and fighting this New World Order will be undone, by design. Be careful the ones proving the most stuff are often the ones to watch out for, they do this because they know that certain truths are coming out they know that they cant stop the awakening that’s coming. so they try to temper it by supplying us with the best real information through their agents and having them only lie about key elements, It is very insidious and very evil. We must be alert and challenge EVERYTHING even if you wanted to hear everything this movie had to say it does not make it true.

One more thing, As this movie suggest, I too believe we are at the end of an age. An astronomical age and a spiritual age, the precession of the equinoxes is a real thing,
They have tried to tell you that this impending change is a non-christian Idea, This IS the Idea! It is clearly described in the bible we will indeed change, as will this world, and why it must do so. but they are keeping you from seeing the origin of the warning! The bible has been 100% accurate in its writing history in advance, this is how has validated itself. Challenge this claim It is your duty, All the multidimensional beings around us know this too, they are not always to be trusted we do NOT know their motives.

P.S. I discuss what method the coming division might take here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread289468/pg1

some “truth” movie

Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.

—C.S. Lewis

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

First, let me apologize for not reading your entire post.  I just agree with your thread title.  The movie, as with any movie I've seen, is pushing an agenda.  It has some facts that are relevant.  But any agenda pushing movie will need some facts or else it will ring hollower than a wooden leg.

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

mmm they make some annoying leaps in the similarities, 'tis true; but the fabrication of the Church of Rome is historical fact.

the second and third parts of the movie are what's critical.. 9/11 ; Central Banks and NWO.  what do you think of those?


But this:
"You will notice that they don’t site one single original source for the Jesus similarities they claim exist..."

Did we watch the same movie?

besides that, i don't see much to argue with, except to ask which are the 100 year old false debunkings.

Also of interest:
http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0370Pentateuch.php

Methinks Christianity was a replay or bolstering of an earlier scam.

Love is the law, love under will.
   
     Zejith Themis
      .:420-510:.
    FIAT IUSTITIA
    RUAT COELUM

4 (edited by morningsun76 2007-10-28 12:22:34)

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

Gensix wrote:

Zeitgeist the new “truth” movie being promoted by its makers on conspiracy message boards around the internet has been thoroughly debunked.

Oh really?   That's one heck of a sweeping statement considering the variety of subjects dealt with by the film.    Zeitgeist is divided into three specific parts, the first dealing with the history of religion, the second with 9/11, and the last with the Federal Reserve and IRS fraud.   It's practically three separate movies in one.     

Your entire post, however, deals exclusively with the material in the first part of the film:  religious fraud.    You don't mention the other two.   So apparently you don't have any basis to claim those parts of the film are "debunked."  Your real concern here is clearly with the first part of the film, which questions the basis for Christianity, and your pre-existing belief system.

Gensix wrote:

but lets please stop using its pagan based rituals to prove anything about Christianities founder. Yes, the "church" does seem to be used as a control mechanism…TO CONTROL YOUR PERCEPTION OF CHRISTIANITY. It seems so obvious. Jesus was actually one of the most anti-religious people that ever walked the earth

You are basing your entire position on the premise that "Jesus" walked the earth, and was the "founder" of Christianity.    One of the points made in the film, correctly, is that there is little to no evidence to suggest that such a person ever existed.    So unless you have found some, it already sounds to me that your point of view is one based on a dogmatic religious belief and not anything to do with the actual historical record.   

That doesn't impress me.

Gensix wrote:

Here is a great look at the ridiculous claims of most of the authors on that list (how they get away with this stuff is beyond rational thought)

Lots of links to even more links by Christian apologetic authors.   Do you expect the readers of this forum to spend weeks wading through all this material?   If you have a specific point to make, make it.

Gensix wrote:

I will put some links here for those who wish to look into this, I encourage everyone who cares to do so:

And another round of links.    I think your tactic here is to overwhelm your reader with links, trying to send them on a wild-goose chase looking for some kind of proof which is nowhere to be found.  Again, if you have something specific to back up your position, just cite it in a clear and concise manner.    Merely telling us to read the entire internet is not a reasonable way to advance your argument.

Just out of curiosity, let's take a quick look at a few of these, just to see who exactly you are linking to.   The first one is:

OK, the very first sentence of that page says:

During the design and construction of the universe God determined that clocks and calendars would be based on the motion of the moon, the earth, the planets and other objects in the heavens.

So the first source you cite makes a matter-of-fact claim about how God designed and constructed the universe.   Somehow I doubt the author was present at the time.  The rest of the article cites the Bible as authority, so it's clear that this particular source is also based on pure belief rather than reason.   The logic here goes something like this:

1) I accept the Bible as the literal word of God;
2) This material challenges the truth of the Bible;
3) Therefore, the material is automatically false.

So far I'm still not impressed.   Let's look at the second link you provided to back up your claim that the religious section of Zeitgeist has been "debunked."

OK, this is an MP3 recording of some guy talking.  Within the first 60 seconds he begins the presentation with a "prayer to the Lord."   So again this source is one which is clearly coming from a specific Christian religious viewpoint.  Since Christianity by definition "accepts the Lord," we again have a source biased from the start, and with a clear motive to claim anything contradicting their belief is wrong or "debunked."   I hope you'll pardon me if I don't listen to the entire hour-plus of this stuff.  I'm still on an empty stomach.

Your third link cited was:

This is a video by David Flynn called "The Doomsday Clock and 2012."    I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand.  Without some more specific citation I don't think I'm going to watch the whole thing hoping to find something relevant.

Your final link was:

It's another talk by Flynn, dealing with Cydonia and Mars.  Again, I'm not sure how this is supposed to relate to your claim that Zeitgeist is "debunked."     

So, basically what you're offering to back up your viewpoint is two sources with clear religious bias, and two that don't appear relevant.  Again, if I'm missing something there, perhaps you could be more specific in your citations.   I doubt anyone here has the time to sit through several hours of lectures, hoping there actually might be something relevant to what you are talking about.   

Gensix wrote:

You can argue with me about a lot of things here (and Im sure you will)

Anyone who argues with you here has good reason to do so, since all you've done so far is offer personal religious beliefs and a frivolous claim that someone else's work is "debunked."

Gensix wrote:

but that this movie has a great deal of factual errors is not up for debate

Oh.  Well I guess I'll just shut up then.

I'm obviously wasting my time by even bothering to respond to this nonsense.

Gensix wrote:

as I said most of these claims were debunked 100 years ago.

So far I haven't seen the slightest piece of evidence to support that claim.    It seems to me that the only thing "debunked 100 years ago" is the idea that a historical Jesus ever existed.    I have read a lot on the subject and have yet to see any evidence to back THAT up.   

Gensix wrote:

I am very worried about the future of this truth movement of which I am proudly a part of, I know that a division on dogmatic grounds is coming

I agree with you on that one, and suggest that this very conversation is an example of the division to which you refer.

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

Actually Gensix, if anyone did some studying, they would find nothing false in the first part.  "Isis Unveiled" by H. P. Blavatsky is loaded with information about the above.  She also gives bibliography, showing sources.  I just watched some of the "Lost Book of Nostradamos" and mention of the constellation Ophiuchus was made.  I should have paid more attention to the show.  It was one more reference to the year 2012 and how we are approaching a time where we all need to put our heads together, as we are each individuals, but we as the human race are also one family of evolving entities.  One thing I keep seeing over and over is, allusions made to the matter of our determining our own fate.  Do we the human race really have so many irreconcilable differences? If government leaders want to go off killing people in foreign lands, it is their choice.  I don't hate anyone, and I do not hate any religion.  I'm not indifferent either.

This is Globe D, the furthest we will go in density of matter.  The next Globe E will be more etherial, tell me how you want that existence to be.  Rivers of lives return to the Cosmic Ocean for a rest before coming back again.

Ecclesiastes 1: 7-9.

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

6

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

Two sides to a story.......


One in the movie....


One in the debunking section.....


Any of the above mentioned can be easily debunked with good arguements....


Which one is true?   Personally, from the heart, I believe that Jesus had a life and a message...


Stars have messages too, but not as strong as THE MAN mentioned above.




Peace, PhiConcept.

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

"To those without feeling, love is an unproven myth. To those who know love, myth needs no other proof"
~~carefulcarpenter

Fun fact: Great Tits are common in Europe

To know love is to know trust; to know oneself is to know truth
~~carefulcarpenter


1+1=1

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

Personally, from the heart, this sums up the entire thread so far.

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

Gensix wrote:

You will notice that they don’t site one single original source for the Jesus similarities they claim exist, you would think if it was true that the ancient texts showed such similarities, they would simply site these ancient texts. They don’t because they do not exist, Its quite simple, They instead offer books from authors such as Tim Leedom, Massey, Acharya, Doherty.

That's all fine and well, Gensix, but the Christ as myth argument has many incarnations, not all of which rely on, or even make any use of, alleged similarities between Jesus and other deities. For example, I noticed you tossed Doherty into the list with other proponents of what I call the "copycat camp". You probably never read his book The Jesus Puzzle, or his website, and I'm not faulting you for that. You saw his name on the list of sources from the Zeitgeist movie and put him in with the other "Christ-mythers". He is indeed a "Christ-myther", but you should know that his argument makes no use whatsoever of similarities between Jesus and other gods. He relies entirely on a critical exegesis of the books of the Bible, in their original Greek and Hebrew forms and not the translated versions. He also examines the historical, religious and philosophical climate at the time of the emergence of Christianity, and shows how the social soil was rich with the kind of mythology and spirituality that inspires Christianity. Many Christ similarities may have been "debunked", but Doherty's arguments have not, despite claims to the contrary from J.P. Holding at Tektoniks Ministries and others. To my knowledge, Doherty's work is now he flagship for the Christ-myth argument and he has definitely brought new life to what was, as Gensix would agree, a recycled and dead position.

10 (edited by Khalil 2007-10-30 02:00:41)

Re: Zeitgeist movie has huge factual errors

Ok, now to add my bit to the debate, again, ...nope, morningsun said it all and very well too.http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:zGqoExNvt7_BqM:http://www.ronaldreagan.com



http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Tceja4N2LfpBIM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/[size=24]Jesusneverexisted[/size]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:mEXVJDvuurLNPM:http://upload.wikimedia.org


If you read any self-proclaimed truth long enough you will soon realise it is bullshit.
Just take a moment to think about the things you read and about  the statements made.
The inconsistencies and nonsense will call out to you.