31 (edited by Poffo 2008-01-22 13:15:08)

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

Metal is not ALL that bad.  There are bands which seek to inspire, in various ways with various themes, be it political, economic, social, spiritual, philosophical, etc.  There is even a subgenre (power metal) that is pretty much based on the theme of the quest for freedom and truth. There are lot of classically influenced bands and many that write about esoteric subjects, Therion's epic sounding song "The Voyage of Gurdjieff (the Fourth Way)" for instance.

Metal helped me ask questions by teaching me about the wider range of human experience, of suffering, and the dark archetypal aspects of the original thought of the Creator.

Metal was where I went to when I was lost (around 7-9 yrs old period).  And it's where I returned to, following my trip to FunkHop land during my communist/conspiracy theory phases.  When I REALLY woke up, spiritually, I gravitated back to metal largely because of the intricate compositions and instrumental prowess it provided, but also because of the aforementioned themes of freedom and bondage which inspire particular bands. 

Without metal I'm not sure if I would even be "here".  It was/is a valuable ally on my Foolish path, and I am eternally grateful for the power of rock to move me. 

While distorted guitars and scary sounding (to some people) melodies and vocals aren't the most harmonious thing to hear, the tension that is caused by listening to metal seems to produce in me a necessary discomfort, for now anyway. It shocks the being into resolving the imbalance that is caused when exposed to controversial subjects and sounds that metal provides.  So much of it is about the intent behind it. 

Disturbed are fairly lame, to me, especially that weird grunty thing the singer does, but I'm sure they have had a beneficial impact in many peoples' lives, similar to the work done by Alex Jones and similar "shocking" pop cultural phenomena.  They rouse people into rising up against the ruse.  Of course this can go the way of crazy surivalist conspiracy guy/gal syndrome, but it can also serve as a temporary inspirational reflection of a temporary level of personal truth reached at that particular temporary yet infinite point in time, allowing the individual listener to grow with the resolving development of that shocking tension into wonderful new vistas of the inherent potentials awaiting within his/her soul.

As Zach de la Rocha (Rage Against the Machine) said in the song Freedom, "Your anger is a gift".

32 (edited by nexus 2008-01-21 19:14:38)

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

Although well intentioned Poffo, and with respect to you, that was one very eloquent defence of the 'devil' there.   The fact that you personally are discovering metaphysical concepts and finding inspiration in diverse places, does not to my mind, really credit the metal scene for much.  Whatever spirituality you may have attained is more likely in spite of your vibrational sympathies with heavy metal "music" rather than because of it... notwithstanding the few metaphysical concepts you may have found floating amongst the vibrational sewer of heavy metal sounds.   Nothing personal Poffo.  Here's my own observation of what is going on with it.

It is written somewhere in scripture:   "Fear is the beginning of wisdom"

Obviously fear is not wisdom.  But for some people it can be the beginning of wisdom.  Sometimes, some people, are struck with fear at the first realisation of their true predicament in this world and their relationship with a higher universal power.  Fear of that stark reality can sometimes jolt some people into beginning the path of wisdom.  But obviously, fear is not a vibration one can profitably entertain if one would transcend the "beginning" of wisdom and rise above it into true wisdom... which casts out all fear.  So, in order to become spiritually wise, fear must be transcended.  Same with other negative human emotions of anger, hatred, revenge, rage, etc.  Whatever positive concepts might be found in some Heavy Metal lyrics, they can only be the beginning of KNOWLEDGE and that knowledge must be pursued in non- violent ways if it would lead to spiritual wisdom....(as distinct from mere metaphysical knowledge.)   Using raging, violent metal music as a means to self- realisation is unrealistic and is like lacing your morning carrot juice with poison.  You'll get your vitamin A and D out of it but it might also kill you.  To speak of death in relation to metal music is not far fetched. 

Paraphrased, the New Testament records Mathew 10:28 :

"Do not fear those who can destroy the body but those who destroy the soul"

The energetic essence of the soul can be expressed in higher creativity or it can be poured into the black hole of violence.  Either way, energy is invested in form and the soul is responsible for it.  If violence is chosen, those soulful/spiritual energies will be poured into lower astral forms and remain "dead" (vibrationally trapped) in the lower astral planes until they are redeemed (spiritualised and released) by contact with the inner- christ self.  That cannot happen until the soul forsakes indulgent mental / emotional violence and takes responsibility for the energies so invested.

The real- Self is LIFE.  All energies which vibrate below the level of that christ- self are "dead" and must be resurrected at some stage (from the lower planes} if the soul is to ascend back to spirit.  Any portion of self, crucified in lower forms, must be resurrected before a soul can fully transcend the material planes.  And that of course includes the energies unwisely invested in mental / emotional violence in all it's forms, including heavy metal music.  Reedeeming that energy is a matter of personal responsibility but it cannot happen unless one sees "death" for what it is.  If "death" is indulged because it is attractive and appears like "life", then the higher- Self must wait until the soul percieves clearly, before transmuting / resurrecting "death" energy back into "life".  Otherwise it is like trying to take a pacifier from a baby.  It has to be surrendered willingly by the baby otherwise it is a violation of freewill. 

Poffo, your eloquent and passionate defence of heavy metal music was no less an apology for the vibration of death and hell than i might hear from an amphetamine addict, an alchoholic, a heroin junkie, a war loving mercenary, TPTB using the hegelian dialect on the masses etc  etc  etc. 

"Out of conflict, comes granduer".   

Perhaps more accurately paraphrased in your apology:
                                                                                    "Out of (the knowledge of) conflict
                                                                                     (and it's theoretical solutions)
                                                                                      comes granduer (even if that knowledge
                                                                                      is delivered through the self indulgent violence
                                                                                      of heavy metal music)
If that was true, and if the regurgitation of noble themes could raise a soul, then the vast majority of humanity would now be enlightened and the world would have resolved it's conflicts.  Passion will trump reason anyday.   And that is why the violent passions of the masses are constantly provoked by all means available.  The arts, music, sport, the media, movies, video games, the political polemic etc etc are all programmed with conflict and lashings of violence to keep the darkest passions "alive" in the mass consciousness.   I submit that Heavy Metal 'lovers' are the unwitting victims of that manipulation whether or not they know it.  What they do know of course, is that they enjoy the release of energy under the influence of metal music and that includes the powerful provocation of feelings of anger, dissafection, contempt, revenge, hatred and general raging against... whatever, it matters not.  All that matters is the violence.  And i dare say it wouldn't matter if the world was perfect, the metal genre would be raging against it.  The themes are arbitrary and irrelevant for the purposes of Heavy Metal.  That purpose is the rape of the soul essence from the chakras and the subtle bodies.   That energy is garnered  by astral forces who then use it back against us.  The sense of self empowerment which a metal rager may feel during that bilking, is a complete delusion because, as they say, one cannot successfully fight the fire of hell with the fire of hell.... Hell of course being the dark fury of raging human emotion.

For the moment though, metal 'lovers' are free to enjoy that and to imagine themselves potent.  For the enjoyment of that 'release' they will be karmically accountable and personally responsible for redeeming the energy spilled into the lower astral plane by their activity.   Raging metal music is just one of the many ways of death which bind a soul to the material planes (as described) and for which each soul is accountable.   

In this world, death is made 'sweet' in it's many forms and guises.  Sweet death...  Slow... loved... embraced... admired... defended.

The themes of "freedom and bondage", "gain and loss" "us and them" are constant in this world and are not unique to metal "music".  The mere presentation of these themes has never, nor will ever result in the spiritual freedom of humanity, although they have re- arranged the deckchairs in the titanic movements of history.   Instead, given the forms it has most often taken, (heavy metal being just one modern form) violent passion leads to a mind numbing impotence to effect the real changes that people really long for.  An inner change of vibration will result in internal and external victories.  But metal "music" is a clear and present danger to the fulfillment of that spiritual potential.   The oldest trick in the book has been to blind people by pandering to their base passions.  And it is always so beautifully gift wrapped in some flag or another, flying always high for a 'mighty' cause.   Instead, the constant pandering to gross human emotion (no matter what theme it is wrapped in.... self- dignity, freedom, nationalism, communism or religion, it)  has kept people unenlightened and keeps violence idling for the next "real" confrontation and the next. 

How might the metal head meet violence when it comes?  Like dutiful lemmings they will meet it with all the violent passion now being fuelled by that most obvious enemy to their own enlightenment.... ie... discord, distortion, disharmony, angry dissafection, violent realease of emotional rage and hatred......  None of this is healthy to the spiritual aspirant.  It is poison of the first degree.  Soul murder in the first degree.  That might seem like a joke, because the average metal heads seem very much alive.  All that passionate activity.  So does a supernova before it's gone.  A soul can be fully spent.  I have seen hollowed out dead men in the street pretending to be alive.  That's what i mean by spent.  It can happen in many ways.   

This enemy of inner-peace is so obvious it is too obvious.  The higher- Self is the source of the lifeforce within us by which we accomplish anything in life.  It flows through us and makes thought, feeling word and deed possible.  Our connection to that spiritual flow has been reduced to a trickle until each soul is willing to be lead by the wisdom of the heart.  Then it can expand.   But beyond an idle speed to sustain the basic functions of life, the higher- Self will only release greater light energy to the soul if the soul can defend it in divine harmony.  If a soul, in ignorance, is pouring the light energy down the drain, then the faucet of the lifeforce (from the higher- Self) is reduced as an act of mercy to prevent the soul misqualifying more energy and multiplying it's karmic responsibility (through re- incarnation) to redeem the energies of self, sown in error. 

It is a very wise move by the higher- Self and in fact explains the situation humanity is in today.... mostly severed from the divine flow of creativity from the higher- Self because of ignor-ance.   Each soul is responsible for how light, energy and consciousness is used.  To give a spiritually blind soul an unlimited quotient of spiritual energy would simply empower that soul to multiply it's error.  Without vision (the all seeing eye of the christ mind) the soul would perish, spending itself in lower forms, totally.   We're all free to play life as we see it and i have no motive but to point out a pitfall as i see it on the path to higher consciousness.  No offense intended.

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

Hermit Brad wrote:

Larry King: Confirmed Reptilian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrfh1Jp--Tw



Natural Mystic is a Reptilian sympathizer!

I am? yikes

Whoa... "heavy" post nexus. wink   Your post really makes me comtemplate the reason why I listen to metal.  Hmmmmmmmmm.  If metal music hinders... then would All music hinder? And if art is the expression of self... are you saying that metal music is the expression of darker emotions?  And if it is, why isn't it a form of healthy release?  It seems likes the more conceptual ideas get, the more we become boxed in.  Yet from experience, metal does make me feel great ~ not that that feeling isn't there beforehand. 

Indeed, if metal music is "evil", why would I be lead to it and enjoy it?

Well as Bill Hicks once said, he'd rather be rocking on the river of styx with Jimmy Hendrix than to be in heaven listenin' to the New Kids On The Block.  Meh, he called himself the dark poet.  RAWR maybe I am evil!  wink

"Beyond the stars a new world awaits me now" - Wintersun

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

There is good and bad in every avenue, which is why it's so tough to nail things down.  I have to be careful not to be suspicious of everyone and at the same time not to be too quick to accept either, bcuz that  got  me into trouble last year.      The trouble I have discerning in this area is that a lot of avenues of  music, movies, games, etc.,   mix some real truths and good and that's what draws a person in; and then they'll insert something severe.   

With me I don't like Metal but it sounds similar to some classical music, which I don't like either.  When I was a kid I thought that strange disconsant sounding classical was worse than metal.   

I watched the Larry King video  from page 1 and thought it was pretty funny.      I'm not sure I'd use a tongue sticking out in a conversation as a way to measure a reptillian.    When I was with the sickest Dutchman last summer and fall  I found myself sort of wetting my lips with my tongue during conversation.    I haven't done that before or since.    With that as a criteria people would have assumed that I am Reptillian.       
Back to the video....   being an ex-mormon I'd love to say that Mitt Romney is a tail wagger, but I have no proof.  Just because he's in a crazy  Stepford Wives type of religion isn't enough proof.   Larry is married to a mormon but who knows.    He looks like a lizard but that might just be poor luck of the gene pool,  or poor grooming,  or maybe he's only budgeted his wife for cosmetic surgery and he's left out. 

Lenore Lapin,  you and I definitely need to rethink our taste in men.
The Dutchman I was with last year could have been  casted as the  perfect dracula vampire for a movie.   I even nicknamed  him the name of Dracool.  The guy told me he got completely high off my energy.   
remember....  look,   but don't give them your phone number.     
words of wisdom I must abide by. 

Piece of Nothing:
Now,  I wonder what an angry unicorn would look like.   Maybe a whole series of angry unicorns?   

I always used depression for creative fuel, which really is just the underbelly of anger. 
Now that I don't have as much depression I don't have as much creativity - but it's worth it just to be happy.
damn trade-offs.
   Give it a try.  Try creating something out of a joy place.   Make it really intense.
  You might surprise yourself to see what comes out.   
I saw this picture a few months ago and it inspired me in some deep way.   I can't say what emotion the artist created it from but it flows and I like it.  If i could figure out how to put the picture on this page I'd do it.

Breathe Deep

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

Okay here is my take on metal...

I must point out that metal is fundamentally about power.  Anger / hate / aggression / violence is just one expression of that power, an expression that is not universal across all metal. There are other expressions including sentimental, party, sorrow, demonic, rebellious, occult, euphoric, romantic power, and so on. There are so many different styles of metal, each with their own feel, because this archetypal power is being expressed through so many different facets of human and nonhuman experience.

Alchemy involves the transformation of base metals into noble metals, and this may be as true for chemical metal as musical metal. Alchemy is the spiritualization of the physical, the redemption of darkness into light, the mastery of consciousness over the inertia of matter. It takes that which is lowest and heaviest and puts it in service to the highest and greatest. In the hands of a musical alchemist metal can become an expression of divine power. Not subtle divinity like what happens when spirit acts safely within the realm of spirit, but powerful divinity when spirit triumphs within the realm of matter. I just don't see other musical styles being capable of expressing divine power as deeply and strongly as metal because power is not their fundamental attribute.

Also I get the impression that there are active/masculine and passive/feminine forms of spiritual service, as in being a spiritual warrior/knight/trailblazer versus a spiritual explorer/healer/helper. Metal would be more associated with the first, and gentler music with the latter.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

I've settled on my view for the most part, and that is- music is exactly what you make of it, and I don't even know if I believe a taste for certain music is even a choice we make, or can be made. I'm certainly not locked into one specific genre- neither do I feel the cult or occult push to one specific genre. 

Just like an abstract painting,,you will read into, and take from it what comes from programming, along with genuine soul resonance, and many other facets of life experiences and memory loops. Even lyrics can be ignored.
Much easier of course where there are none. wink


Happy to have been a part

37 (edited by FreeSpirit 2008-01-21 20:21:19)

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

I was feeling a bit compelled to defend my right to rock in whatever manner feels good (maybe the reps were leading me here) and I see that Montalk has captured a couple of really good points - the power and the masculine/feminine energies associated with certain music. Yes a lot of it is about power and the release of ones frustrations or just unused, undirected energy. I don't think that it means that one is possessed or stepping over to the dark side. I have to disagree generally with Nexus on the picture painted of heavy metals vibrational energies (sewer??), although this thread is about Disturbed and I think the more commercial modern metal (I prefer older-school metal -70's 80's), and I am not going into the realms of all the detuned blacker metal and goth influenced metal that is around. That type might resonate with the darker frequencies of this and other worlds and don't give me a very good feeling anyway so I steer clear. Black Sabbath is a notable exception as they were detuned at least to D and I'm sure some songs were closer to C as opposed to E concert pitch, and I grew up on a lot of BSabbs and Ozzy and all the other bands at the time considered satanic like Judas Priest.

Back to the power aspect. Who hasn't strapped on a Les Paul or Strat and plugged in to a Marshall stack at serious volume. If not I think you should do it at least once in this lifetime to feel the energies that you potentially tap into and release. I can tell you from personal experience that it can be like a very powerful form of meditation and clears many emotions that would be otherwise harmful. The same effect I suppose that crying over the loss of a departed one has healing power in the release. I relate it therefore to listening to powerful music, and I guess even some bombastic forms of opera or classical music could be thus classed. I don't think that the music in of itself can turn a positive or even passive non-spiritually practicing (but good at heart) person over to the dark side and whether it makes better feeding material for other dimensional entities or not is just pure conjecture. Maybe they get as much from the emotional energies released at hearing some really beautiful music -say JL's Imagine.

The lyrics are another thing and depends on whether you buy into them or place any heavy emphasis on them other than hearing them as purely phonetic, sometimes gutteral sounds and grunts placed rhythmically for emphasis. Again I am not talking about the really dark metal -speed metal -death metal -whatever they are calling it these days because I just don't get that and personally find that it jars my soul (unless they have a couple of good songs in amongst the others then I might listen). I actually liked one of Disturbed tracks at the time so I guess in my rambling - that is the thing I look for - does it jar me or soothe me or excite me. If I listen to a good old Black Sabbath song right now, I am aware of all the dark imagery and blatantly satanic symbolism but I don't fear what it might be doing to me vibrationally or mentally as I am aware what I am feeling and there is no slowing down or lowering of vibrations going on. It would be far more likely for that to happen (lowering of energies and opening  up to lower entities) when watching a Tarrantino movie like Pulp Fiction or any of his more vivid violence-for-shock-value scenes.

I guess on the flip side the innocent youth that would be targetted would not have formed their spiritual protection or opinions yet, but I still don't think that a good person (in simplistic terms) would become bad or influenced just by mouthing the lyrics that are inspired by dark or reptilian lyrics. Of course I don't really know as who really knows the power of dark alchemy and verbal spells/chants etc. Then there is the whole aspect of subliminal messages and electronic signals and tones that can be inserted for mind control - especially easy to hide in the conversion process to bad quality mp3's. Therefore do they actually need to use the overt dark imagery and lyrics that are right in front of your eyes to see and discern (just take them for what they are worth), or would they be far more devious and deceptive as they always have been and hide all of their trickery within the most harmless of music and things -like 'I'm a barby girl....' remember that one, now that one made me think evil thoughts and made me agressive to those that played it. They would use all the harmless pop and country stuff, Disney movies and all the usual suspects like tv and cellphones and of course they do. If you start labelling specific bands and performers as good and bad or even reptilian, then where would it all end. You may as well suspect all and everything which would become unliveable, kinda like the way people label every politician and public figure as being reptilian now that the knowledge is becoming more mainstream as in talked about due to Icke and co. It might very well be true but it also serves as a very good smokescreen to the real magik and trickery being pulled right in front of us every day.

38 (edited by nexus 2008-01-23 07:34:02)

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

I agree that metal music is fundamentally about power.  But unless power is weilded under the direction of wisdom and love (in harmony) it is power abused.  The abuse of power is the issue here with metal music.   It is an expression of alchemy to be sure.  That's exactly what i was saying.  But metal music does not accomplish the transmutation of the base metals into gold.  No.   By it's vibration, heavy metal music is a triumph of matter over spirit because it transmutes the gold of spiritual energy into the base metals of discord, distortion disharmony etc.... a recipe for death in the broadest sense because the subtle soul energies are tranformed into grosser forms which become vibrationally trapped in the lower planes.   Although all heavy metal is delineated into sub- genres, it just makes it relative that's all.  Some genres are relatively more or less destructive than others.
It may be a generally ignored fact that most of the energy that has poured through us (from spiritual planes) during our many incarnations in materiality has not returned to spiritual planes.  It makes sense too, that all the energy used to imprison souls in the MCS has been provided by ourselves.  If that wasn't so we would not be imprisoned.  Our predicament is our karma for empowering the beast in it's many forms with our own energy.  The matrix is Cosmic justice, it is not a negative overlay cast apon us which is undeserved.  The energy which we've spilled is otherwise supposed to flow freely from spirit into matter and back to spirit again in a natural cycle of unimpeded flow.   Instead, most of that energy has become vibrationally trapped in the lower material planes because it has been stamped with a lower frequency when passing through our 4 lower bodies.  The vibrational content of these subtle bodies and the chakras determines the quality which we stamp upon that flow and whether or not that energy rises or falls in vibration.  That is why so much effort has gone into programming the mind and emotions with unnatural affections.  The traps are set in this world to activate the lower- self to ensure that the energy flowing through us is misqualified at it's inception.

It says in the Book of Revelation:

"And the dragon...................  (the egoistic lower- self and the astral entities that vibrate with it)
stood before the woman...... (the mother energy rising up the spine)
which was ready to be delivered...(of energy expressed as the creativity of the christ-mind)
to devour her child as soon as it was born"...(to misqualify and seize that energy from the subtle
                                                                         bodies and chakras as soon as it is expressed)

Heavy metal music is one manifestation of that ^^^ and illustrates what is happening at inner levels.

As most of us realise, it is literally the consciousness of ourself which has created the anti- self.  It's subtle spiritual energy has been poured down the throats of our own lower- ego, the astral beasts and their physical tools on earth.  No soul trancends the material planes without the fallen self redeemed from it's current forms.  Until that is completed it can be truthfully said that a part of our self is still part of the problem.

The relative powerlessness of human beings incarnate in frail bodies of flesh, with wings clipped severely, is the karma for the abuse of power, wisdom and love over aeons of incarnations.  At this stage, the flame of true identity is greatly diminished, and in many souls, is flickering and dying out.  But you would never know it by observing the lustre of faces shining in the self indulgence of human passion, unless of course you come across those hollowed out people who don't even have the energy left to party.

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

"Are you getting DOWN with the sickness yet?"-Reptilian

"That is so five years ago..."-Tod Stevens, 20

"There cannot be progress without expression. There cannot be expression without separation. There cannot be separation without progress."-Ouroboros

40 (edited by nexus 2008-01-30 19:49:03)

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

Natural Mystic wrote:

Whoa... "heavy" post nexus. wink   Your post really makes me comtemplate the reason why I listen to metal.  Hmmmmmmmmm.  If metal music hinders... then would All music hinder? And if art is the expression of self... are you saying that metal music is the expression of darker emotions?  And if it is, why isn't it a form of healthy release?  It seems likes the more conceptual ideas get, the more we become boxed in.  Yet from experience, metal does make me feel great ~ not that that feeling isn't there beforehand. 

Indeed, if metal music is "evil", why would I be lead to it and enjoy it?

Hi NM.  It was a "heavy" post wasn't it.  The metal is much heavier though, because : a) yes it is the expression of darker emotions.... and  b) It is a "high" because the powerful forces of unnatural rythym and distortion are forcing the flow of energy from the chakras in an unnatural fashion.  That high can be addictive because many people cannot re-create that high spiritually [without the corruption of sound and rythym] and so metal is chosen habitually as a substitute.  It is therfore not a healthy release for karmic reasons relating to the responsibility to redeem and transmute that energy.... which i explained in the other posts.     

No, all music doesn't hinder.   There's another music thread floating around somewhere where i explained the basic metaphysics of personal energy release as a consequence of rythym and sound.  [see the thread titled: "My thought about music" by joeman].  I used to play in rock bands myself and made my living at it for years.  I used to do all the yelling.  When i got very interested in spirituality i realised that the whole thing and the  lifestyle that went with it was anathema to the spiritual path.  I quit rock bands and clubs, smoking cigarettes and pot, drinking alchohol [i still like the odd glass of red] and assorted other minor drug indulgences and went to work in the botanical gardens as a gardener.  I wanted peace and quiet and a clean body again so i did a 180 in a day. 

Since then i've turned up some great music.  While there's a fair bit of junk in the classical genre [as random as a lot of the metal and jazz] i also found some brilliant stuff.  You have to pick the eyes out of it and don't shy away from the giants just to be different.  Include them in your collection and you will know why they've been called 'masters' of music.  Beethoven's symphonies and piano conciertos have moments of sheer sublimity.  Mozart is great a lot of the time.  Strauss can make you feel wealthy and etheric at the same time.  When choosing these classics be sure to find performances by the best orchestras in the world.  They are far superior to the $5 CDs from asia somewhere, performed by inept amateurs with no feel for it.   Also, the Indian bhajans appealed to me as did the music of ravi shankar on sitar.  Whenever i hear old world folk from italy or hungary or greece, played well, i am positively moved... at a restaurant or whatever.   I love Luciano Pavarotti even though stiff necked officianados believe he sold out by taking his operatic arias to the masses.  I bought him no worries.  When he's at his best, Pavarotti is like holy oil and deeply moving. 

There is power in these kinds of music but it's a different kind of power.  Any music that uses natural rythyms like the ones i mentioned, and which is played with soulfull greatness, has power to give the soul a release in inner- spirit, at least temporarily... Especially Beethoven and Pavarotti and the bhajans.  They can take you to a place of high spiritual grace.  It won't happen every time, to every listener, but it can happen.  I know that rockers and lovers of metal and dance clubbers and others will say the same thing about their favourites but it's an entirely different kind of magic believe me.   Don't believe me.   Use your own discernment.  Having experienced both kinds of power ... profoundly, so i know where people are coming from when they talk about familiar experiences .... i can say there is a profound difference between a spiritual musical experience and a musical high.  IMO, the word 'spiritual' is misapplied to the 'musical high' and is very, very different. 

I've heard musicians tell me and i experienced it myself, that a high is reached in performance where it feels like it's not you anymore making the music but something else playing through you.  I guess it's the brain switching hemispheres or something and sometimes even astral entities participating by using you as an instrument.  But i do know that astral forces will energise artists who have a special (vibrational) affinity with them and/or who have a history of association with them.  The artist reaches a new level and becomes a magician for a while.  But without harmony and natural rythym the spirit is not part of that.  Harmony and order are the essence of spiritual flow.  Divine geometry, and rythym and order cannot be violated and still maintain the flow of spirit through all octaves.  It is not possible and that is why heavy metal and certain other musical forms are spiritless even though they appear very much alive.   The lively activation is nothing more than the flow of misqualified energy.  Exhilarating in it's own way but not spiritually alive.

41 (edited by FreeSpirit 2008-01-22 11:09:13)

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

Xenopope I know you have pointed out that you are referring specifically to the lyrics and that you would give a breakdown as to how you see their true (reptilian) meaning. I would be interested to see you do that at some stage as I am not too clued in on the old rep vocab. I know that this thread has now become more about heavy metal in general but I just wanted to comment on a few things that Nexus wrote.

nexus wrote:

'But unless power is wielded under the direction of wisdom and love (in harmony) it is power abused.'

No problem with that but by that standard you could say that any heavy metal wielded under the direction of wisdom and love (in harmony) is good -like anything else. The term harmony doesn't isolate any specific music style, as if judged purely on harmonious content then much of jazz and avant garde experimental and modern classical would be considered lacking in harmony, with plenty of dissonance and evil sounding inversions of traditional chords.
I guess most of those old jazz guys must be really stoking the flames with their heroin soaked, self absorbed solo excursions. There again too general.

Then as far as -

nexus wrote:

'discord, distortion disharmony etc.... a recipe for death in the broadest sense'

There is discord in much music as I have said and is used a lot in movie soundtracks to create tension - so in that context it is probably a negative thing as it is creating an artificial sense of fear. Distortion applied to music is not the same as when applied to distortion of truth, of vision or perception of reality with the obvious associated negativity.
Distortion of sounds (mainly guitar and sometimes bass guitar but often drums and other instruments like keyboards used for effect) is seen in all styles of music -you name it, there is distortion. It is inherent in most if not all modern music. It is purely the clipping of a natural waveform signal electrically or by overloading circuits causing overdrive/clipping and additional harmonics (ok enough amateur lessons you probably know), and to relate that to lowering of vibrations or causing negative emotions is just wrong in my opinion. Disharmony is as I said earlier, widely in use in other styles and is also very subjective.

This reminds me too much of the good old days when everything that was rebellious and didn't follow accepted (by the few elite) norms of the day was considered the work of the devil. Elvis and 50's rock and roll was today's heavy metal or I guess it's now rap or whatever although it's all become rather controlled and commercialized across the board. Then there is still the issue of the person or soul that is behind the music. In your terms Nexus, the music is transformed into grosser forms -a recipe for death. What about if the person listening or playing the music is a lot more powerful than given credit (as all souled humans potentially are) and acts to transform or transmute any negative energies, whether through conscious awareness or not. We are filters of everything we perceive and it is possibly one of our functions on these planes. The individuals that spew out all the aggression and negativity in this world are already dark influenced individuals to begin with and might be drawn to the power and attitude of heavy metal to use for their own ends - sure, that does exist in certain instances . You just can't generalize about this it's just too complicated like all of life.

I don't agree with the idea that

nexus wrote:

'most of the energy that has poured through us (from spiritual planes) during our many incarnations in materiality has not returned to spiritual planes.'

In that case all creative people are destroying the world as they reach for inspiration in painting, poetry or song writing where there is some form of divine inspiration. If anything, that energy released should be based on intent and should be a very positive life empowering creative force. The very matter which makes up the the universe. You are of course basing your opinions on the views that we are in a prison planet and all of our limitations are due to karmic induced punishments. I don't choose to see it like that as without our wings being severely clipped how on earth could we experience the multitude of experiences that are so unique to our earth time. Sure those freedoms have been severely curtailed by interference but I don't think that was by original design.

Because of this interference I do acknowledge that there are darker aspects to everything -all music, but that certain types of music manage to hide the intent better than others so might be more overt. Nexus are you one of those people that believe that sexual energy not based on love - things like tantric sex - also lead to a build-up of this dark cloud of matter around earth that needs to be cleared, because that is similar type of thinking, and again I don't go for that in it's simplest form.

Lastly I feel that anything that frees the flow of energy in your physical body and helps you connect with your higher self as some powerful music can do so well, is indeed a powerful force but in the context of the way I use it and see it, it  is a force for good. Harmony of the inner leads to outer harmony as long as it is not at the expense or sufferance of others.
Nexus I was originally responding to your post before the last one but I just took a brief look over your more recent comments and I guess I can see where you are coming from on this and  it obviously has some validity although rather biased, but it is far too black and white and down the line. You might have realised what was not appropriate for you and what you needed at the time but in such a dense, heavy area with so many blurred lines and deceptions within deceptions one can get just too bogged down with all these thoughts of entities feeding on this and that and which artists are generating dark matter over the others which are (through personal opinion and taste) generating love, peace and assorted flowery scents. When I think of the pioneers of heavy metal like Jimi Hendrix (all time favourite), or Led Zeppelin launching into the soaring tones on Red House or Zeps - Since I've Been Loving You, I see and hear nothing but beauty at the very peak of mankind's ability (through divine influence or not) and not as you say....

nexus wrote:

'nothing more than the flow of misqualified energy'

.....and it is definitely spiritually alive.
I have released myself from the fear of being controlled and manipulated, and I think that a few inspirations and ideas or associations as you say from beyond our veil, not neccessarily astral, is not all negative. It's up to the individual to discern and whether to channel the magic for good or not.  Just my 90 cents.

42 (edited by Poffo 2008-01-22 14:42:27)

Re: Disturbed Reptilian Rock Band

nexus wrote:

Although well intentioned Poffo, and with respect to you, that was one very eloquent defence of the 'devil' there.   The fact that you personally are discovering metaphysical concepts and finding inspiration in diverse places, does not to my mind, really credit the metal scene for much.  Whatever spirituality you may have attained is more likely in spite of your vibrational sympathies with heavy metal "music" rather than because of it... notwithstanding the few metaphysical concepts you may have found floating amongst the vibrational sewer of heavy metal sounds.   Nothing personal Poffo.  Here's my own observation of what is going on with it.

I appreciate your honesty. For efficiency's and sanity's sake I'll respond in general here instead of dealing with all points individually.

I may have apologized for metal, but I won't for the choices I have made and make.  And for clarity's sake, I have no problem defending the devil, and do it fairly often for those unaware of the legitimacy of the darker side of the Creator....he's got just as much right to exist as anything else "under the sun/Son".

And with reciprocal respect to you, I wonder exactly how much of the many varied forms of metal you have listened to.  From reading your reply I would guess that you are fairly familiar with the more popular acts which are by and large very efficient loosh generators.   A true and humble discussion of this topic, or any topic for that matter, is almost impossible when the knowledge/experience base differs by large degrees.  I know you and I could converse on say the Logos very well but a topic such as this one isn't afforded the same ease of discourse and understanding beause of the present differences.

The way I see it metal music has been a major source of awakening catalyst, for me.  Without it I may have still found a way to develop my understanding of the world/universe but I was born into the family I was for a reason.  My 5 years older brother was a metalhead by the time I was in grade 3 and has been a major part of his life.  So you see, my involvement with metal was a chosen destiny.  I have always been a rebel in comparison with most of the people who have surrounded me in my life and taking on the metalhead persona early on in life fit that essential part of my being/expression in life.  Being a rebel has secured me plenty of catalyst with which to grow and I wouldn't choose another way if I had the chance to.  We all grow via different means but the end result of Creation is always the same in "the end".  I'm not saying I will always be able to listen to metal and as we speak I am starting to find some stuff harder to listen to because it's got to the point where I am unable to efficiently make use of the energy, certain sounds/thoughts no longer resonate and I will necessarily move on as destiny fills itself in of my own volition.

You have taken a path of purity and from the sound of it, correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to have a natural "talent" for it in that it wasn't/isn't a major struggle but something that just naturally fits who you are.  Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I'm not so strong and have relied on crutches my entire life.  If metal music is a crutch then it seems I am finally building up the ability to prop myself up without it.  Until that moment when one is healed enough to cast off the cruth it must still be made use of to get around.  I accept my injuries.

The funny thing about people that disagree with me is that the disagreement is usually only the very confused surface layer atop a huge base of agreement.  Of course I realize that metal is "impure" and probably detrimental to me in some way, but IN MY CASE it has served well as a springboard to bigger and better things.  Perhaps not all who have metal in their lives can say the same, but the catalyst is never either positive or negative, it is what you make of it and and thus free will is always abided by.

Thank you montalk for getting to the "powerful" meat of it. (side note:  When I was a kid the local free metal mag in the old record store in town was called "M.E.A.T.", lol, forget now what it stood for.  Probably something EVIL!!! tongue)

Thanks for your observations nexus, I'm taking it in, though it leaves me feeling somewhat, oh I don't know, disturbed.... wink
(edit: nexus, sorry I didn't respond to your response to my post on the "letter O shape" thread.  After posting it I realized it was a thread in the Conspiracy section and thus pretty off topic, didn't want to continue it on.)