mandalis,
You say you understand "christianity"but your knowledge of Christ's message [ spoken through Jesus ] is at least, if not more shallow than "christians" understanding of his message. The simple fact is that Jesus the Christ has been stuck with the bad rap of a false theology which bears no similarity to his own message.
It's a lot like Iraqi citizens believing that the 'US war machine is the true face of NR members. Would anyone stand for it? No, they are philosophically demasking the lie because it is a distortion of the true image of what America is at heart. I am demasking "christianity" to reveal what is really at it's heart... at it's core ... But, you are asserting that nothing but plaigerised 'myths' and physical sunshine, is at the core and instead you parade the mask around and shoving it down everyone's throats like we believed in the mask ourselves.
I could misunderstand you in a similar way... : What if i told you that you are "worshipping" material phenoemena, and then i proceeded to blame you for perpetuating the beliefs that caused all the pollution and sweat shops in the world because of a 'materialistic' consumer society. And that you'd never achieve full Buddhahood because of it. You'd swear i was a 'grey' alien.... and rightly so, but that's how sensible your arguments are sounding to me.
In critical thinking 101, they call your overall strategy a "straw man" because it is false reasoning. It is a tactic seen most often in partisan politics. Politicians hurl 'straw men' at each other for one reason only. Because they are certain than a good number of their constituents are dim witted fools... And that, already politically partisan themseves, the voters mistake 'ferocious arrogance' for high moral ground. You can learn how to do it on the telly. In a word mandalis,[ one you keep using ] it is "dishonest". You set the straw men up yourself then you set fire to them with your "ferocious arrogance". [as you admit you are.]
Nobody here is merely defending christians, many of whom are fine people, but i am defending something of much greater value than the false doctrines of fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist Hindus, fundamentalist Jews, fundamentalist Islamics and fundamentalist Buddhists [many of whom believe in an external savior in the person of Maitreya. Maitreya is a real Buddha but Benjamin Creme is not his messenger....you can tell by the message.]
I have said that i'm defending something of much greater value than fundamentalism in all of it's many forms. I would only be repeating myself here to say what that value is.... except to say that it is beyond forms.
Jesus said the same when teaching about the Spiritual consciousness beyond external forms :
" If they tell you the 'kingdom' is in the air [external], the birds will preceed you. If they tell you it is in the sea [external ], the fish will preceed you... truly i tell you the kingom of heaven [the heavenly consciousness of God] is within you."
Jesus might well have asked even, why seek the "kingdom" soley in scripture : he said to the false priests :
"Loving the letter [of the law in your scriptures] ye reject the Spirit. [in yourselves]"
Mandalis, you really don't understand the points i and others are making even though you keep claiming you do. And you prove that you don't with every new post. For all of your quoting of posts you seem to miss most of points insofar as i have rarely seen you reflect back to people what they really mean.... barr one thing. I said Jesus lived... you understood what i meant by "lived" and dissagreed. Fine. But in order to more consistantly reply to people intelligently you must hear what they are actually saying, otherwise straw men can be your only staple.
A true understanding of Jesus' message is not polytheistic any more than a true understanding of Hinduism is. It is no more polytheistic than a true understanding of Buddhism with all it's many buddhas either.
For example the Mahayana school of Buddhism depicts the 3 bodies of man. The highest is the dharmakaya, Then the samboaga kaya and The nirmana kaya.... kaya means 'body'. They are levels of consciousness which are further delineated in the teachings of that school of buddhism.
Hinduism teaches a trinity also ...ie. Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. And although fundamentalist Hindus believe otherwise, the many "other gods" in hinduism [ ie. durga, kali, ganesha, saraswati, shakti etc ] are aspects of the ONE God consciousness in everything and everyone. The 'gods' are [micro and macro] cosmic forces. Sometimes a real individual has perfectly personified an aspect [and more] of God consciousness and has been immortalised in the race memory and revered in the general pantheon. Krishna is one such person. I think it is believed that he will be returning sometime in the future too.
[It's worth saying too that the souls of the people who did totally identify with the Spirit within themselves did not accept the external "future savior" scenario themselves. They believed that they could transcend the ego consciousness not merely integrate it. If the shadow is not transmuted while the soul is in the earth plane it will bind the soul to the earth plane through reincarnation until it is transmuted. The shadow self is a dead weight which cannot transcend the material planes by being "integrated". It has to be separated and excised from the soul by an incisive mind. The master surgeon in this process is the Christ Mind [called many names] which separates the real from the unreal in all levels of consciousness. It is possible today because it is written :
"He that is in you [the Christ consciousness within]
is greater than he that is in the world [the worldly consciousness of the ego]"
In my view both the "future savior" scenario and the "integrated individual who's 'balanced light/dark in themselves" idea, are both calculated to ensure failure. The idea of these lies is to get people through an entire embodiment expecting an external physical savior and justifying the darkness of the ego. The only eternal integration that is possible is this :
~The daughter of Zion [the soul] is 'wed' to [integrates through a process of transmutation with] the bridegroom [ Christ consciousness ]... then as a result of this alchemical marriage of levels of consciousness, the soul [ jerusalem, the new city ] ascends to Mount Zion [ the I AM Presence ]. There is no external portal of escape from the responsibility of 'ressurecting' the lower self from the dead. There is no ascension in 2012 for the masses. December 21st 2012 will pass like any other day on earth. If long experience is anything to go by, any thing could happen on that day... but it wont be a mass ascension of the human race. Better to be still and go within and seek conscious communion with the higher Self.
In the old testament somewhere it says : [ the Psalms i think :]
"Be still and know [by inner gnosis] that I AM God [within you]" ...
The Christ Spirit spoke through Jesus saying to all :
"I [the Christ consciousness within you] stand at the door [to your heart] and knock, s/he that would sup with me [consciously experience my light presence] bid me enter [your heart] and i will enter in"
A returning savior / messiah figure seems to be a common theme in all these religions including Judaism. You have to admit it suits the controllers to a T. "You are just a puny human, but if you do as we say your [external] savior will be coming later for you and he will wisk you off to [an external] heaven... ego and all." Always later. This makes it easy to reject the true Spiritual teachers in the 'present' in every generation. Even the real ones are invariably rejected and sometimes murdered by the 'gatekeepers'.
Anyway mandalis, we've both had a pretty good ol' time with this haven't we.
If anyone is further interested in Jesus true message you might find this website of interest :
: www.askrealjesus.com
These discarnate entities are not "spiritual" because they have not identified with the interior light. The ascended ones are spiritual beings and have mostly lived among us and are motivated by compassion. The astral enties [some who have never lived among us] are motivated by lower desires and participate in organised oppression [physical and astral] by manifold deceptive means.