Re: The Music Thread

The most beautiful music ever written were chroal pieces by Palestrina, Lotti, Gabrieli, Allegri, Byrd, Willaert, etc.

Their music represents the closest thing I believe to that contained within the higher levels, in both sound and colour. In particular the Sanctus & Benedictus in Palestrina's Missa Papae Marcelli. 

Forever I have been searching for music that I remember hearing, and know exists, yet I can't remember exactly when or where I heard it, and have been unable to find it.

However some of the music by these composer is the closest to that which I know I've heard before.

Vincit omnia Veritas: Truth conquers all.

Re: The Music Thread

Hi matt, thanks for sharing those composer names. I've been listening to Monteverdi and Palestrina for a while and was on the lookout for similar material. 

I realized that just because something is classical, it is not always coming from a 'higher' place. After the age of baroque, the general trend of classical music seems to have taken a turn away from melodic currents that uplift the spirits. Thereafter, I think music generally appealed more to intellect, sentimental emotions, third density trivialities, first density whimsies, novelty at the expense of beauty, etc...

Music that comes from higher realms, the higher chakras, has that extra divine oomph that resonates the faint memory within of your divine origins. Maybe it approaches what was discussed in dreamosis's thread about objective music. Whatever it is, it transcends musical style, as I have heard "it" occasionally in non-classical music as well.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

33 (edited by lyra 2005-11-12 00:05:49)

Re: The Music Thread

It's weird, but I realized there's been a trend for me lately with the music I'm downloading....and I know, this music isn't hip or cool, but that's okay.  tongue   But I realized that there I was, downloading songs from Elton John, Jackson Browne and Bruce Hornsby.   All big names in the 70's or 80's.  But most importantly, all three guys play the piano and wrote and sang their own material, and can sing really well, and crafted these incredibly catchy tunes.   "Running on Empty" and "Doctor My Eyes" from Jackson Browne are amazingly catchy, high energy songs.   And Elton John - need I say more?  wink (his recent rantings against anybody with two legs aside....the man seems to have gone off the deep end recently, but nevermind that.....)    It's like, you don't realize how well you know his stuff until you stop and think about it.  But his music probably soundtracked half this forum's childhood.  "Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting", "Sad Songs Say So Much", "Rocket Man", "I Guess That's Why They Call it the Blues", "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", and "Your Song."  You can't listen to that one without sniffling.  smile   Then the other day I woke up with the song "Mandolin Rain" by Bruce Hornsby going in my head for some unknown reason, only to go to walk into the pizza place later that same morning and find the song playing overhead.  Weird!  So I downloaded that one too, (already had "That's Just the Way It Is") and realized both are pretty well done songs in comparison to whatever nonsense is going on nowadays with music.    These guys actually had talent, could actually sing...and did so with real power in their voice, and genuine emotion, you can hear it.  Not that stupid "emo" crap that's going on nowadays.  DOWN WITH COLDPLAY.  Something is SERIOUSLY lacking in "music" nowadays.  It's like everything's a bad facsimile of a facsimile.

Today I added John Lennon to the mix.  My mom had his album in 1980, so listening to those songs reminded me of that, I remember her listening to that album over and over when she was pregnant with my brother.  (that reminds me...when my brother was 12 I remember looking through his tapes, and he had all this stuff like Ice T, M.O.D., Wu Tang Clan, etc......mixed in with Fleetwood Mac, The Cars, and all the stuff my Mom listened to when she was pregnant with him!!!  I was like, Oh my god...do you even realize....??   He had no idea why he liked that stuff, he just did.  I just thought that's amazing how we can hear and remember the music happening outside the womb and subconsciously draw on it years later....)

Anyway, that's been the music trend for me this past week.   Around Halloween I was in an 80s goth pop mood.  Siouxsie and the Banshees, (LOVE Siouxsie....) The Cure, Depeche Mode and Bauhaus, to name a few.  (Peter Murphy's "Cuts You Up" -- THE best song of the 80s you never heard.......)

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

34 (edited by choice 2005-11-12 06:54:48)

Re: The Music Thread

Here's a well-crafted song for lovers, written and sung by a guy who's playing the piano too... Coldplay - Trouble

lyra wrote:

DOWN WITH COLDPLAY.  Something is SERIOUSLY lacking in "music" nowadays.

Trouble is, we all feel that the music that we like is the best, and that everything else is really crap to our ears.
That's because it is all subjective (art). There isn't really a way to quantify various pieces of popular culture (or
high culture for that matter), it's a bit like trying to say that a particular Monet painting is better than a Van Gogh
or that Impressionist art is superior to Pre-Raphealite art.

I think each generation has it's fair share of artists that capture 'something' about the era/arena they operate in,
the zeitgeist of each generation is best understood by those closest to it, and in the case of popular (read youth)
culture this is the youth of the day. Hence the alienation that most (adults )will feel from what's 'fresh' and from the
streets as opposed to the playlist-driven commercial fm fare that is demographically tailored, and familiar/meaningful.

An interesting thing is that each generation has it's revolutionary/anti-matrix type anthems, but they all sound
stale and toothless (meaningless?) to successive generations. I agree that there is the sense that a lot of music
has that 'facsimile' feel. A lot seems to be very well produced retro-styles that are being re-hashed in a cyclic way
that says more about the formulaic-seeking industry that builds and perpetuates popular icons than the lack of
experimentation in bedrooms and garages around the globe.

The terms popular and successful seem to go hand in hand but another thing that I feel it's worth noting
is that this popularity is grown via shrewd and aggressive management and marketing, and historically this has
always been the case, there were literally hundreds of composers in post-renaissance europe who were not popular
because they did not have patronage from a royal court or some member of the nobility to further their cause.
So, the fact that we have all the great classical composers as the canon is due to the fact that they were the 'pop stars'
of their day.

Success is a term that we can only really equate with the number of singles/albums sold; of units shifted, in corporate
terminology. An interesting thing about the brou-ha-ha surrounding sampling and the appropriation of music is that the
corporates have no problem in appropriating a whole sub-culture or musical genre and grooming their chosen constructs
to be marketed to the masses to take advantage of an emerging movement or style of music. It was only a matter of
months between nirvana writing 'smells like teen spirit' and the teens being able to buy their 'grunge' outfits off the peg
in kmart, the same with punk and the diy culture that became designer bondage pants.

If I were to play the greatest selling or most popular or widely acknowledged artists' records to a tribal person from the
deep amazon, and they were to be unimpressed, would it mean the music was crap or that the person had no taste?
Both.. and neither. It's cultural, and subjective.

I don't mean to be churlish and this is in the humour and fun section after all, so sorry for such a long post, I felt
compelled to comment as this (music) is one of my essential passions, as a teenage aspiring rock-god turned mid-life
academic and media mercenary. wink

What seems to a be a common experience is that the music that accompanies any emotionally intense experience,
let's say puberty and adolescence for example, seem etched into our neural networks in such a way that when re-playing
that music, it can be evocative in a way that virtually re-creates that era/experience very easily, and associated imagery
seems easy to visualise. Mmm.. anyway I could go on and on about these related themes as they are intrinsic, but I will shut
up and share some more music.. the important thing here.

*choice uploads another track then dons his asbestos suit as he senses lyra reaching for her industrial-strength flame-thrower* ^__^

chill well and peace to all

king crimson - peace a theme - 1970
king crimson - peace an end - 1970
portishead - it could be so sweet - 1994
sounds from the ground - lean on me - 2003

Everything in what we call creation is energy resonating at different frequencies.
The universe is a song...

35 (edited by lyra 2005-11-12 11:01:28)

Re: The Music Thread

choice wrote:

Trouble is, we all feel that the music that we like is the best, and that everything else is really crap to our ears.

Well, I knew somebody was going to say that, but really stand by my feeling that there's something seriously off with the music today. And I'm not the only one, so it's not just me.   I've talked to other who have the same feeling.     It's NOT that I feel like "the music I like is the best".....because I like all types of music, as illustrated by my post.   I can go from listening to Siouxsie one second, to Jackson Browne the next.    You don't get much more different than that!   smile  If you saw my CDs and the compilations that I've burned, I'm all over the board, music-wise. I like pretty much most music (with the exception of rap and country)..................up til 2000.   After the late 90's, something changed.   And again, I've heard this from others, so it's not just my "subjective opinion" about art, or "feeling like the music I love is the best," like you said.   

A bad facsimile of a facsimile, that's what comes to mind when I think of the music of today.  Something's lacking.   

What's funny is on several occasions since 2000 I've had people come to me wanting to share some new music they were excited about.   And I mean, seriously excited.  One coworker girl in 2001 made me go out to her car so she could show me.  So, I sit down in the front passenger seat, and she pops in the CD.

It was Coldplay.   I'd never heard of them, but I had high hopes, based on her excitement.

The music starts playing.  I start frowning, waiting for it to get good....waiting.....waiting.....it never did.   It was weak, lacking ANY sort of oomph.   Just weak, sparce piano, and some guy whining.  If he whined and plunked at that piano any more, he'd wither away!

I was totally bewildered, like, "hanh!??"   

Then in 2002, a co-worker of mine was beside himself about Mars Volta.   I *HAD* to listen to these guys, says he.  Well alrighty then!  Bring it on!   So he gives me their CD to bring home with me to listen to.

Tom and I sat there, attempting to listen to it, but alas, it became impossible.   I could not even finish listening to the entire CD, and neither could he.  It was that bad.  Just BAAAD.   To this day we'll sometimes use Mars Volta as a joke comparison for the bad bands that are on the radio right now.  "Sounds like Mars Volta!"  big_smile 

I don't know what's going on, or why people think this music is good......but I have a theory.  I think most people just don't pay attention.  It's the same conspiracy reason for why people don't seem to notice all the other junk going on in our world....they don't pay attention.   Also, most people have never given themselves a media break, let alone a radio break.   Listening to the radio is a way of life, just like watching movies.   So they continue to do what they've always done, every day, day after day, and so therefore didn't notice when things started slipping downhill.   They're half asleep at the wheel in life anyway, so how would they notice?   Also, they're so saturated in media programming, which tells us what to like, what to buy, what to wear, how we're supposed to look and who we're supposed to be, that they just follow along with the herd.   The media programming is push push pushing all this mediocre-at-best music with mass hype, and people just fall for it.   The same way they believe everything else about our reality.   I mean, if people like Coldplay, then great, but I'm just not getting it.....especially when there are so many other male singers / groups that exist out there who sing and play the piano that can be used as a comparison.   When one has those comparisons, how do they listen to Coldplay and think, "WOW!!  THIS IS THE BEST!!! YOU HAVE TO COME OUT TO MY CAR AND LISTEN TO THIS!!"  I don't get it.  Very weird!  To me, in my opinion.  If it offends anybody, what can I say.  I remember the last group / music that stood out for me on the mainstream radio when things were going downhill, and that was Gorillaz.  Weird s***, but some of the songs had good melodies and beats at least, and were catchy.   Like movies, music has turned into find the needle in the haystack!

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

Re: The Music Thread

I'm very much into music. When I was a kid, all I knew about was the shallow pop crap they played on the radio. This led me to assume that modern music was nothing more than vaguely catchy background noise. Then at around age 18 I heard Portishead - Sour Times, The Prodigy - Poison, The Chemical Brothers - Life Is Sweet, and Massive Attack - Protection, all within a very short timespan. This stuff blew my mind. I had no idea music could be so carefully and purposely made. In the case of Portishead, I had no idea music could so clearly transmit such feeling. For the first time I was hearing music created by human beings (even though they all used machines to do it). I bought the albums these songs came from and I was not disappointed. When I got onto the internet I became a downloading fiend, exploring every genre I could.

Here is a huge RAR archive of songs from some of my favorite artists. Except for the vintage psychedelic rock, the back catalogs of all of these artists are solid. If you like a particular song, chances are the artist has made at least an album's worth of other songs you'll like. (Be warned that the punk artists I selected evolved a different sound on later albums, though.)

czyx_music.rar (286MB)
(If that doesn't work, here's a self-extracting split archive: [1][2][3][4][5][6])

Here's what's in it:

Beautiful Girl Rock
    Cat Power - Wild Is the Wind.mp3
    Devics - I Broke Up.mp3
    Joanna Newsom - Erin.mp3
    Julee Cruise - Floating.mp3
    The Innocence Mission - Sweep Down Early.mp3
Electronic
    Breakcore
        Enduser - My AK.mp3
        Venetian Snares - Szam ¡r Mad ¡r.mp3
         µ-Ziq - Hasty Boom Alert.mp3
    IDM
        Aphex Twin - Alberto Balsalm.mp3
        Boards of Canada - In a Beautiful Place Out in the Country.mp3
        Jega - Geometry.mp3
    Psy-Trance
        Infected Mushroom - Deeply Disturbed.mp3
        Juno Reactor - God Is God.mp3
        Shpongle - Divine Moments of Truth.mp3
    Sample-Based Instrumentals
        Amon Tobin - Four Ton Mantis.mp3
        Bonobo - Kota.mp3
        EBN - Electronic Behavior Control System.mp3
        Fingathing - Big Monsters Crush Cities.mp3
        Four Tet - As Serious As Your Life.mp3
        Rjd2 - Exotic Talk.mp3
Gothic Rock
    16 Horsepower - South Pennsylvania Waltz.mp3
    Cranes - Beautiful Friend.mp3
    Diamanda Gal ¡s - Gloomy Sunday.mp3
    The Black Heart Procession - A Light So Dim.mp3
    This Mortal Coil - Song to the Siren.mp3
    Woven Hand - Blue Pail Fever.mp3
Hip-Hop
    AWOL One - Make.mp3
    Billy Woods - BBC (Backwoodz Broadcasting Corp.) (feat. Thrill Gates).mp3
    Binary Star - Honest Expression.mp3
    Deltron 3030 - 3030.mp3
    Jedi Mind Tricks - Saviorself (feat. Killah Priest).mp3
    Mr. Lif - New Man Theme.mp3
    Subtitle - Young Dangerous Heart.mp3
Vintage
    Alt-Country
        Lee Hazlewood - Come on Home to Me.mp3
        Lee Hazlewood - The Night Before.mp3
        Lee Hazlewood - Your Thunder and Your Lightning.mp3
    Psychedelic Rock
        Colonel Bagshot - Six Day War.mp3
        Dantalion's Chariot - This Island.mp3
        Saffron - Vision Is a Lonely Word.mp3
        Scott Walker - My Death.mp3
        The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band - I Won't Hurt You.mp3
    Punk
        Siouxsie & The Banshees - Placebo Effect.mp3
        The Raincoats - Off Duty Trip.mp3
        Wire - Strange.mp3

I was going to include more genres but the collection was just getting too big. big_smile

--Justin

37 (edited by choice 2005-11-13 05:02:03)

Re: The Music Thread

lyra wrote:

I mean, if people like Coldplay, then great, but I'm just not getting it.....
...I don't get it. Very weird!  To me, in my opinion.  If it offends anybody, what can I say.

Hi Lyra, I'm not in the least offended if you don't find anything in their music, they are
just the example that you gave of "that stupid "emo" crap that's going on nowadays."
Might have seemed that they are one of my sacred cows, I just like the track I posted.

I decided to elucidate a bit on my thoughts about good/bad music and opinions.

My original post would have been "There's no good or bad music - it's all subjective,
we all have our opinions, there's no objective method for comparing music" but thought
that such a curt response may have been taken as hostile without copious smilies.

I haven't listened to commercial radio for about 15 years now, but I like Gorillaz though...:P

Everything in what we call creation is energy resonating at different frequencies.
The universe is a song...

Re: The Music Thread

czyx wrote:

This stuff blew my mind. I had no idea music could be so carefully and purposely made. In the case of Portishead, I had no idea music could so clearly transmit such feeling. For the first time I was hearing music created by human beings (even though they all used machines to do it).

Totally agree with you about the Portishead/Massive etc. (I posted a Portishead track yesterday curiously enough)

Amazing collection you've put together there! A few that are classics in my own personal mythology.

Great Post!

Everything in what we call creation is energy resonating at different frequencies.
The universe is a song...

Re: The Music Thread

czyx wrote:

Here is a huge RAR archive of songs from some of my favorite artists.

Could you do me a favour and take out the Breakcore and Sample-based Instrumentals and post them separately?

I am as is Void.

40 (edited by lyra 2005-11-13 10:32:59)

Re: The Music Thread

choice wrote:

My original post would have been "There's no good or bad music - it's all subjective,
we all have our opinions, there's no objective method for comparing music"

See, and I knew someone was going to say that too, and after I logged off yesterday I was thinking about this very thing.   What I came up with was this -  Sure, music, and art in general is all "subjective", but the fact is....the human mind is wired in such a way as to recognize beautiful things, and well composed music.   We are naturally drawn to beauty whether it's attractive people or beautiful surroundings,, and when it comes to the audible, most people can recognize when something is off key, or lacking in melody and non-harmonious in general.  It doesn't sound "good" to us.  We gravitate to that which is harmonious, melodious, and "symmetrical" you could say.

So sure, we one can say that all art is subjective - beauty is in the eye of the beholder - blah blah blah, and that's true...to a point.   That's the mentality though of people who generate modern shock art that involves tossing random nasty things onto a canvas, then claiming, "But I'm EXPRESSING MYSELF, see, this is ART, it's EXPRESSION..."   Where does one draw the line?  With music, I have heard some CRAZY stuff that can't even be classified as music....oh my god the other night in fact montalk was trying out new music, downloading different samples of this and that from online....and this one "song" was in the vain of techno, and was just ONE NOTE pulsing over and over and over.......!    I've never HEARD of such of thing.  I can't even describe it.    We were laughing about it....but then had to realize that, um, maybe whoever made this wasn't kidding....?  !!  Alarming!


choice wrote:

I haven't listened to commercial radio for about 15 years now, but I like Gorillaz though...:P

Yes, Gorillaz are good, indeed!  smile   That was probably the last modern CD I bought, actually, back in 2001. 

There's a lot to be said about commercial radio, so many things I could write about that it would actually make a great mini-article.   For starters, Clear Channel practically owns everything now here in the States, which means, homogenized control of the airwaves.  We're all getting the same flavor, whatever state we live in.   But Clear Channel aside, even if it's a non-Clear Channel radio station, the fact is, ALL mainstream radio relies on a Playlist.   That equates to the same 100 songs, TOPS, played in heavy rotation...over, and over and over and over and over.    And in the case of Classic Rock stations, you're just getting the same 100 classic rock standards, over and over and over and over and over with very little deviation.   "Deviation" comes in the form of "Specialized Shows", where some dude has his 2 hour show where maybe he gets to play something slightly different.   Ooh, it's 80's Retro hour!  Or it's the Garage Band hour, or it's Techno Party Time! or  whatever.  But the majority of any 24-hour day on any mainstream radio is devoted to the standard, programmed, homogenized playlist.

And what does this effectively do?  See, here's where it ALL comes together, where the Bigger Picture Conspiracy comes in.  Cause you know there has to be one, there always is!  wink

It locks people into repetitive habits, safety, security.   TPTB are all about programming humans with the notion of safety and security.   And what I've noticed is that SOOOO many people have their favorite radio stations that they listen to at work, for instance, where it's this familiar comforting thing playing in the background.   The same familiar DJs, during the same time, Monday - Friday, playing the same songs, from the same playlist, with the same lighthearted banter in between, and the same commercials interupting periodically for the same products.

Day in, and day out.

Comfort and security.   Stay in the pen.  Everything is going to be ooookaaaay.   It's cozy here. 

And it helps reinforce the idea of not thinking.   These people who play their radios on the same station every day at work, the thing that I saw that EVERY ONE OF THEM had in common was being on autopilot.  Not thinking.   Going through the motions every day, half asleep.   Talking about silly, trivial things, shying away from anything that was "outside the norm", just content with their repetitive routine.   Get up, go to work, eat, sleep, watch TV, repeat, die. 

Maybe I will do a write up on this.   This has spawned into a majorly interesting side topic!  big_smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

41 (edited by czyx 2005-11-13 16:07:09)

Re: The Music Thread

Xenopope wrote:

Could you do me a favour and take out the Breakcore and Sample-based Instrumentals and post them separately?

Sure. Here you go! smile

Edit: or do you mean song by song? I can do that if you like.

--Justin

Re: The Music Thread

lyra wrote:

It doesn't sound "good" to us.

Mmm.. you probably knew that I would reply ^__^ but here you have it...
our opinions are just that.. whatever we think sounds good or bad is just our opinion..

choice wrote:

there's no objective method for comparing music

there is no scientific method for deeming a piece of music to be good (or bad).
Academia is full of people generating volumes of opinions about why this art
is good, and why this art is not, this is what clearly separates the arts from the
sciences; no objective methodology to apply, to justify our opinions.

smile

Everything in what we call creation is energy resonating at different frequencies.
The universe is a song...

43 (edited by montalk 2005-11-13 19:31:52)

Re: The Music Thread

Interesting article:
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Tonality_96.html

Apparently there has been research in whether babies are born with musical preferences or whether it's all a product of cultural programming. In the experiments, they repeatedly paid more attention to harmonious music than dissonant music before having a chance to be enculturated.

Here's an abstract from one paper on this:

Preference for Sensory Consonance in 2- and 4-Month-Old Infants
Laurel J. Trainor, Christine D. Tsang, Vivian H. W. Cheung–¹“’

The preferences of 2- and 4-month-old infants for consonant versus dissonant two-tone intervals was tested by using a looking-time preference procedure. Infants of both ages preferred to listen to consonant over dissonant intervals and found it difficult to recover interest after a sequence of dissonant trials. Thus, sensitivity to consonance and dissonance is found before knowledge of scale structure and may be based on the innate structure of the inner ear and the firing characteristics of the auditory nerve. It is likely that consonance perception provides a bootstrap into the task of learning the pitch structure of the musical system to which the infant is exposed.

http://caliber.ucpress.net/doi/abs/10.1 … 2.20.2.187

The differences between certain types of music, say rap and techno or country and blues, may be subjective... but that does not mean all facets of music are subjective. At the most fundamental level there is a mathematical elegance behind what is universally considered harmonious and beautiful, and mathematics is pretty objective.

Fun experiment: check out microtonal music, don't try to judge it, just listen for a while and observe how it makes you feel:

http://www.tonalsoft.com/downloads/free-music.aspx

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: The Music Thread

czyx wrote:

Sure. Here you go! smile

Edit: or do you mean song by song? I can do that if you like.

Thanks! and, no, that's what I meant, one archive.

I am as is Void.

Re: The Music Thread

choice wrote:

My original post would have been "There's no good or bad music - it's all subjective,
we all have our opinions, there's no objective method for comparing music" but thought
that such a curt response may have been taken as hostile without copious smilies.

Hi Choice would you say there is balanced music and unbalanced music.
Plants will naturally grow away from the source of unmelodic rock music, while they grow toward uplifting spiritual classical music, also ermolis work with water found beautifull chrystal patterns in water exposed to classical music but when exposed to heavy rock music became chaotic.

I have to walk out of a room where loud non melodic music such as drum and bass, techno etc is playing becuase i can feel the unbalancing effect of the music.

Music is encrypted sound energy and will have an effect on our bodies and mind regardless of subjective taste.

Its not like we are fractions of the whole but rather versions of the whole.