If that is the case, then I would be interested in cooperating and planning for the formation of a free society, independent of money and the electricity of the powerplants.

It's a lesson I need to learn and a fear I have to overcome too. Networking is a good thing to do, gives you a framework to see it can be positive and work, instead hearing only the "what are you thinking" or it'll never work" voices of the masses.

Good luck

lightwave I hear u all the way, those words are my feelings expressed through you, the feelings of this not being right but something tells me that we need it all to evolve, the light and dark, for now we must use it and embrace the dark and give it our light we see, by doing this we are helping the dark evolve into light and that way we increase the rate of the evolution of the universe by bringing light to the dark. What we have to do is to recognise the dark in our lives and give it a new perspective. Until all the dark is filled with light again we wont be going back to the beginning from where all came, its a long long way away yet but depending on our attitudes and how much we want to evolve ourselves and get rid of our "gremlins", it could happen now!

As with just letting go of everything I so just want quit my job and work for myself or do something i love but i have a daughter and a missus and to sacrifice my "comfortable job" for what I believe is the greatest risk I could take in my life and I REALLY want to do it but the fear holds me back and I know i'm stronger than to let fear overtake my thoughts but this is REALLY HARD, but i know its the right thing to do and this will test my faith of the natural flow of life, I can feel this is my biggest lesson and it may be the same for a few on this forum.

I just finished up an HTML class and I can also do the golive/dreamweaver stuff, but am not ready for hardcore stuff like shopping carts and the like. Did the web stuff work out for you? How did you get customers...over the internet?

Yes most of them were found on the Internet, through a website where I sell two scripts. However I've heard for most people on that field it's easier to find local customers. I'm doing web programming (PHP, database, etc) so there is a bit less competition.

Anyway if you feel called to go independant, do it and ignore all these voices/programming telling you it's too dangerous. There is great fun in taking risks and, even if you go through uncertain periods, you can learn a great deal from them too.

Welcome to the NR forum. I'm sure most folks here would jump at the opportunity of creating a community of their own, away from the system, that lives more harmoniously with the environment around them. You are right in that most western jobs are worthless: they are. They produce nothing of real value, and usually end up making you a slave of the clock. Tick-tock-tick-tock, okay, when do I get out of here?!! With the turmoil that is sure to come in the next few years, keep dreaming and thinking. Depending on how things turn out, you may yet get your wish.

Jason.

this is my first post here. The time in Scandinavia is now 3:00 at night, but I guess I am too stubborn to go to bed

   The issue of finding a job and earning money has also been a major concern for me now. Many people on this thread have posted interesting ideas and points of views that describe what is good/bad about money, and what kind of society would be better.
   Strangely, for a few weeks I have had a strong feeling, and felt a great urge to actually implement these changes into life, i.e. I want to create a system/society that is completely independent of money, as well as the rest of the system. It is a small society where people are self sufficient and have the technologies necessary to lead a good life. I think independence of money as well as of the Power Pland-electricity is a must. The oil will eventually end.
   
   I cant live a day withour pondering this. I do not want to get a job which is based on mass-producing useless stuff that polute the environment. Any job in western society seems to be poluting one way or another. I cant stand that thought. I have started to ask around, to look for people who might be interested in doing such a thing as building an independent society. A lot of people with some great determination and wisdom are needed I think.

Right now I feel this is the only thing worth struggling for.

/Konrad

lyra wrote:

If you liked "Office Space" you'll proabably enjoy "Clockwatchers" as well.

Yeah, hey Lyra. About those TPS reports I asked you for? I need you to TRY to get those to me by tomorrow morning, okay? Oh, and don't forget that we're putting the new cover sheets on those reports. So if you could TRY and have them on my desk by 10:00AM that would be great. Yeah. Oh, and one other thing: I'm going to have to ask you to go ahead and come in on Saturday AND Sunday this weekend. Yeah. We lost a couple of people recently and we're getting really backlogged with work. Don't forget that we'll be starting at the USUAL time, okay? Great. Thanks!

   Personally, I like any quote from Milton.  I used to have one as my answering machine message.  If I didn't pick up the phone then people got to hear the whole Milton monologue where he's on the phone talking to somone about how he likes the Swingline stapler better, he used to sit over by the window, and he could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but they moved his desk three times this year and if they move it again he's going to quit, and he could set the building on fire.   Then it turns out the someone he's talking to is Peter, in the next cubicle who's just trying to get him off the phone.

!

I love that movie.  I personally think Mike Judge is a genius.    "Daria" and "Office Space", there you go.

You sound like another "old soul" to me. I echo many of the sentiments you expressed here: the daily feelings of routine and repetition; the stripping away of emotional attachments to physical things, places, and experiences; the blurring and melding of polarity extremes; and of seeking joy in the simplest of things. The only point we differ on here is that I DO believe that it all has value. Great value, in fact. I try not to allow any feelings of boredom or isolation I may be experiencing now to sublimate my appreciation of what this system has given to me, because I wouldn't be here without it. In fact you expressed it perfectly yourself: perhaps that thing which you now view as torturing you, is--in fact--that which is trying to set you free? Just thinking about that pretty much turns the whole concept of good and evil on its head, and can really make you see the perceived negativity of the current system in a very different light. Perhaps, rather than seeing the system as something which exists simply to punish us for its own sadistic amusement, we could switch perspective and see it as that which pushes us up into a higher "orbit" because that's where we are ready to go?

If you liked "Office Space" you'll proabably enjoy "Clockwatchers" as well.

Yeah, hey Lyra. About those TPS reports I asked you for? I need you to TRY to get those to me by tomorrow morning, okay? Oh, and don't forget that we're putting the new cover sheets on those reports. So if you could TRY and have them on my desk by 10:00AM that would be great. Yeah. Oh, and one other thing: I'm going to have to ask you to go ahead and come in on Saturday AND Sunday this weekend. Yeah. We lost a couple of people recently and we're getting really backlogged with work. Don't forget that we'll be starting at the USUAL time, okay? Great. Thanks!

Today, Monday, I started my first day at a week long temp job filling in for a receptionist / law clerk who's on vacation.   I was marveling at the wonder of the "Temp" who is grossly underated.     Here we are, we're the people who come in at last minute's notice, to fill in for people we don't know, at a company we've never heard of doing work that may very well be brand new to us.   And we do it, and we'll learn it in a whopping 10 minutes flat during our breathless marathon training sessions by some busy member of the office who's trying to cram in 6 months of job training in 10 minutes before the switchboard needs go on......and all of it just so we can work for 1, 2, 5 days.....whatever's needed.      We get the full office tour, get the run down of where / what everything is,  learn who everybody in the office is, where they sit, what they do, how the phone works, how to turn on the switchboard, check the messages, how to transfer calls, forward the phones, how to put a call to voicemail, what the procedure is for screening calls and taking messages, what programs we need to load up on our computer, how to use them, what they're used for, what to do in the event that so-and-so lawyer gives us such-and-such work to do.........all in about 10 minutes.   Then we're expected to just take over the switchboard like an expert and start doing work that's thrown at us by lawyers who don't care who we are, just as long as there's a body up front who will smile and take the work that's thrown at them.

And we do it.  !!!   And do it well!!!!

Let's hear it for the temps of the world!!!!!!  Go temps!!!!

hehe 

On this note, I'll leave off with a movie recommendation, it's called "Clockwatchers." It came out in 1997 I believe, starring Indy Queen Parker Posey, Toni Collette, Lisa Kudrow, and some other girl   and it's about 4 temp chicks at your typical office cubicle hell, trying to look busy when there's no work to do and trying to score that "Letter of Recommendation!!!!"   hehe   If you liked "Office Space" you'll proabably enjoy "Clockwatchers" as well.

i made this quotes up over a year ago when i had alot of negativity surrounding me. i had just moved out of my parents house and trying to adapt to the "world" and at the same time i was uncovering the things that led to help me begin awakening. money was short, time even shorter, and even tho i had 4 of my best friends with me; i still felt isolated.

my views on money arent as negative, yet i still like those quotes i made. they speak a truth of how money is affecting the world negatively (for the most part)

i can see what some are trying to say about money being a part of life and that it definetly does TEST you. its all part of the learning experience i can agree, and mastering it is part of mastering your existance in this world (for now)

i still believe that the world could and would function much better (more honest) without money. but until that day comes i will try to use this illusory value to my advantage.

As far as attitudes towards money, which is something that has come up here, I'd have to say that I have no feelings towards money.  I'm not a money hater, nor a money lover.  I have absolutely no feelings on each side of the scale.  I'd prefer not to have to deal with it at all, it just doesn't interest me, I can't explain it.  I've said now for years that all I need or sincerely want is enough money to "get by."   Enough to pay my monthly bills, with "a little leftover to save."   Like a couple hundred extra.  I don't ask for much.  I have never really sincerely really wanted to be rich, nor ever had within me the motivation to get rich.  Living in Southern California for 10 years certainly gave me the opportunity though.   Awhile back I started a thread here at NR which never took off called "Things You Could Do....But Don't!"  the concept being that there's a world of things you could be doing out there, from the everyday mundane things to the big time exciting things...so....have you ever thought about why you don't do those things?  What the reason is?  Is it because it's something you never thought of before, is it something that frightens you, something that's morally wrong for you, something you have planned but haven't gotten around to it, etc.?   Well, this concept applies to making money as well.  There's a WORLD of things out there I could have been doing in my 20's to make money....limitless opportunities......from the "seedy" to the "respectable."   I've just had no desire or drive to chase money.    Like I said, I couldn't muster that drive if you put a gun to my head.    I just want to exist.  I don't want to have to think about money.  I don't hate it, I don't love it, I'm just neutral.  What's funny is I was reading some astrology book that mentioned Scorpio's attitude towards money.  It said the Scorpio female usually doesn't want to have to deal with it.  They don't want to have to think about it.   That's me, right there!     I don't have a bank account, mostly the reasons listed in the above C's transcript, but also because bank accounts are a lot of WORK.   I don't want to DEAL with that.  Checkbooks, balancing checkbooks, keeping up with what I have in my account, finding ATM machines, keeping the receipts, making deposits, fees and charges, I mean, who wants to be bothered with THAT?   Not me. That's an awful lot of work for something which I am completely ambivalent towards.   That's NOT an area I want to be "investing" my energy, no pun intended.    I just don't want to have to ever think about it.  I manually hand cash my paychecks at the bank, get the physical money, go home, stuff it in an envelope then forget about it.  End of story.

Anyway, just some thoughts on money.  Mostly I'd like to be able to take care of my needs, like I said....but without a traditional ticktock job.    We will see!   I'm sure it can be done.