People like to say that Chimps are our closest relatives, but I believe it's bonobos.
Ha, to clarify...some of the population has chimps as the closest relative, some have bonobos. shoots the whole adamic, op thing to hell...all this time it was chimps and bonobos...now it all makes sense 
I knew about bonobos, who are very intriguing in that they look most like us versus any other primate with their long limbs, hairless faces and minimal head hair - they're even bi-pedal! - but chimps....wow. Although it's not surprising. Chimps are very aggressive and have a male dominated society, whereas in Bonobo land, the females are the Queen and everybody gets along. People like to say that Chimps are our closest relatives, but I believe it's bonobos. Had a chance to see Bonobos at the San Diego Zoo about 5 years ago......wow. Holy cow. It'll blow you away. You feel uncomfortable watching them through the glass. You feel rude. They're a people, basically, they're not "animals". Watching their behavior, their interactions, their movements...it's unreal. It was interesting to watch the crowd's reactions. Everybody would pile up to the glass, all excited, then slowly, as they observed the bonobos and it registered what they were seeing, they began getting figety and uncomfortable. Eyes averting around. That was the was biggest clue, not being able to "stare at them" like you would a giraffe. Because they'll look right back at you and they look like people. There was one female bonobo who recognized a male in the crowd and came running up to the glass, locking eyes with him, tapping the glass. He played a little "flirty" game of tapping the glass back and forth, since they couldn't like, give hugs or something. We started talking to him and he told us that he was a regular to the zoo, coming to specifically study the bonobos, and that one female recognized him and seemed to have a little crush. 
To see her face light up and the way their hands were up against the glass, trying to "touch" through the glass, it was sad.Their movements and bodies are most interesting because again, they have long limbs and are bi-pedal, they're not all hunched over hop/dragging themselves around like chimps. Other things we observed that day at the zoo was one Bonobo named Michael who sat apart from the group. He was sitting on the ground, leaning against the wall with a grumpy scowl on his face, with his legs bent up to his chest and his arms draped around his knees. Exactly like a person would sit. The person I was with commented that his body looked IDENTICAL to a person's. If you covered his face/head, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I mean the arms...they were just like a human male's arms. He would shoot annoyed glances both at the people behind the glass and his own group off on the other side of the compound, like he was pissed at EVERYBODY. Mad at the humans and mad at his own peeps for being subjected to this.
Meanwhile, with the group on the other side of the compound, they all decided to get up and move and go off and do other things, but there was one bonobo female who needed to go pee. Like a human, they have social graces and dignity. They don't act like "animals" and just do their thing in front of everybody. They have shyness, hangups, whatever you want to call it. So she waited until the group was walking off and not looking and then she hung back, discretely went pee, then ran to catch up.
The gorillas were also another interesting area, next to the bonobos. They're so smart as well that the Zoo had allowed the head alpha male gorilla to take care of his own group. So, they didnt' have the zoo staff hanging over them. At the end of the day the bell sounded that it was time to go inside for the evening, and the head male got up and began moving around the group, rounding everybody up, gesturing with his arms and hands, gently gathering everybody up, and helping to escort them back inside where they all sleep and spend the night..
You cant watch something like that and be comfortable. You'll get the figets and the averting eyes, I guarantee it.
]]>big kudos
]]>If it's Darwinism, then being that we're primates, our ape cousins should display the same traits we do, or show signs of it.
All mammals have a brain stem, which goes back to the reptiles. It's just the most basic and primitive brain structure, to which evolution (or intelligent design or whatever) added the lymbic and cortical systems. Does this brain stem have to do with Icke's reptiles, evil and their possible hold over us, the flyers mind etc, perhaps but I personally wouldn't link it just because of the use of the world reptile in both instances.
Jane Goodall discovered that those lovely chimps can be just as violent as we are:
"Chimpanzees, our closest species, demonstrate the same intraspecies violence, with death as a goal rather than an unfortunate consequence as it seems to be in other less closely related species. Chimpanzee violence towards other neighbouring groups is different from that of other primates in that the aim is to kill, whereas other primates are content to see the other group flee. It is clearly not a coincidence that humans and chimpanzees seem to be the only two species who fight to kill.
In addition, chimpanzees and other apes practice rape, infanticide and battering as means to gain and maintain power and to ensure maximum fertility. Rape is particularly common among chimpanzees and orangutans, and among the latter accounts for between one third and one half of all copulations. Rape seems to be the way in which smaller males, who could not otherwise compete with the larger males, have a chance to spread their DNA.
http://www.natsoc.org.au/html/publicati … thics.html
It's funny and curious that the Bonobo's seem to be hippies compared to the chimps: free sex, love, peace etc.
Those loving bonobos -- did we pick the wrong primate to evolve from?
The question of the origins and meaning of evil is an intruiging one. Does it have to do with metaphysical forces, gender, culture, genes, power or all of those in some weird constellation...
edit: here is the amazon link to Wrangham&Peterson's, "Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence"
]]>Why do we have two sides, and why do we have that good side that is bewildered by the predator? Probably because the predatory side has been tacked on and is artificial and foreign to the original "template" we're created from.
And that's exactly want Don Juan says in Castaneda's book "The Active Side of Infinity". Obviously everyone here is familiar with the passage, as it was posted recently, see http://montalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=845 for the full chapter.
"There was something in me which was, I felt, a glutton for punishment. He was right. I wouldn't have left the house for the world. And yet I didn't like one bit the inanities he was spouting.
"I want to appeal to your analytical mind," don Juan said. Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed, and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal."
"But how can they do this, don Juan?" I asked, somehow angered further by what he was saying. "Do they whisper all that in our ears while we are asleep?"
"No, they don't do it that way. That's idiotic!" don Juan said, smiling. "They are infinitely more efficient and organized than that. In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver-stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now."
oh, and thank you kindly for the invite. if we ever get the chance to travel abroad and we hit the UK, i know who to contact !
]]>it made me wonder the rest of the way to work; what is it inside a human being that can make them "want" to violate a young innocent girl ? what caused someone to rape? and i think it ties in with this Fox hunting business and "hunting game" in general; why do people "Fancy" cruel things such as these? (had to throw in that word Fancy) for some reason i thought "reptilian DNA" or some kind of tampering of DNA mixed with animals ??
i thought, is it because of some animal instinct or animal DNA thats in us ? but that doesnt really make too much sense... as animals wouldnt really "get the socks off" to watching other animals die... they kill because they *need* to...
um, is it the complex nature of our creation from multiple sources that causes conflictions in our psyche and sometimes results in malfunctions ? or is it other higher forces infiltrating these people to install these ugly emotions or thoughts ?
And its all over the world, not just in UK or USA its everywhere.
You're right..........and those are great questions and points! What is it about human nature that causes many humans to adopt the predatory animalistic attitude? Where they hurt other humans and animals for jollies? Where killing is a sport and a pasttime, where raping is fun. Because you're right, animals in the wild generally don't display this behavior. They attack when they feel threatened or are backed into a corner. They attack to defend their young or their territory. They kill to eat and survive. But raping??? Malicious sexual predatory behavior??? That whole evil, devious thing that we see within humans? As far as I know, that's not the norm in animals. There may very well be animals that do this which I'm not aware of, but you're right, it's definitely not the norm. I've too tried to figure out where it comes from. We HAVE to question why Humans are so obviously different from other animals. Like Agent Smith said in "The Matrix", (parahrase here) Every other animals lives in synch with its natural environment, but humans do not. Humans are like a virus. We spread out and consume everything in our path until we destroy an area then move on.
Factor in the other things you were talking about, the killing and raping for fun, and all I can say is..................doesn't this all sound familiar? Sounds to me like the reptilian mindset we're always hearing about.
The reptilian "alien" race is one that is very destructive. According to lore, the reps roam from planet to planet to planet, consuming and using up everything they can until eventually destroying it and moving on to the next. They're malicious, cold, predatory and lack empathy.....getting their jollies in senseless killing, torture and rape....because they FEED on the energy that these acts generate. So they NEED to behave that way because the energy they gain from it actualy contributes to their sustanence.
Then we look at humans, who are in endless conflict with themselves. We have two sides, our predator side and our nice side which is bewildered by that side and tries to fight it off and beat it back with a stick. Now why would that be? Why do we have two sides, and why do we have that good side that is bewildered by the predator? Probably because the predatory side has been tacked on and is artificial and foreign to the original "template" we're created from. (theorizing here that the theory "intelligent design" by aliens is correct....) You suggested DNA tampering......bingo! One good possibility. The human brain at its central core is known as the Reptilian brain, Carl Sagan wrote about this in "The Dragons of Eden", as well as many others. But where did this come from? Is it a byproduct of natural Darwinistic evolution? Or have we been tampered with?
If it's Darwinism, then being that we're primates, our ape cousins should display the same traits we do, or show signs of it. But they don't. I've studied up on chimps and bonobos and while they display pretty much every other human trait in the book - fear, anger, shame, remourse, joy, fun, playfulness, planning and strategy, tool making, embarrassment, hurt feelings, depression, fighting, masculine "chest puffing" territorialism, etc. etc., I've never heard of "raping". I've never heard of apes ganging up on a lone ape and raping them, torturing them for kicks...............being an "ape serial killer" !!!!! Going around "stalking" and preying on helpless apes then honing in for the fun kill, playing with the dead body, chopping it up into pieces and killing others afterwards just like a human serial killer does. Just never HEARD of such a thing. Killing goes on, yes, sure, but not the way we see it in humans. You won't see that level of devious malicious evil that we can see in human nature. Humans hunt animals that they have no intention of eating, just for the thrill of the chase and that satisfactory feeling when they finally get the animal cornered, and it's powerless in their crosshairs. There's a kick that a human gets from that which we don't see displayed in other animals. And to me it sounds very reptilian, especially the aspects of serial killers and serial rapists.
]]>they still know how to party hardy on that side of the atlantic.
me being a passionate "raver" ... it would be quite an experience
You got that right. The brits definitely know how to party hard. Far too hard in my opinion as it seems to have turned us into a nation of alcoholics and drug users. Drinking is the nations favourite pastime, and many people here probably feel more at home in the pub than they do in, well their own home!
I've never been much of a raver myself because I was always more into rock music, however there is a rave I go to once a month and it's coming up tomorrow as a matter of fact. It's quite underground and makes for a great experience that is probably more in tune with how raves used to be when they first started in the late 80's/early 90's.
In order to control them better, and also make huge amounts of money, raves became very commercialized affairs all through the 90's up to the present day, and as a result the original vibe has generally been lost ie. There's far too many pretentious dicks who don't know how to have a really good time and only do it because it makes them look 'cool'.
But there are still a few good ones around if you know the right people to ask. You're welcome over anytime Z.
]]>but, back to the topic:
I did not know that about Fox Hunting either, lyra. and that is pretty ugly.
I saw a man at a bus stop, if only for a second, staring at two young teenage girls waiting to go to school. it was a split second but i noticed it. and it made me wonder the rest of the way to work; what is it inside a human being that can make them "want" to violate a young innocent girl ? what caused someone to rape? and i think it ties in with this Fox hunting business and "hunting game" in general; why do people "Fancy" cruel things such as these? (had to throw in that word Fancy) for some reason i thought "reptilian DNA" or some kind of tampering of DNA mixed with animals ??
i thought, is it because of some animal instinct or animal DNA thats in us ? but that doesnt really make too much sense... as animals wouldnt really "get the socks off" to watching other animals die... they kill because they *need* to...
um, is it the complex nature of our creation from multiple sources that causes conflictions in our psyche and sometimes results in malfunctions ? or is it other higher forces infiltrating these people to install these ugly emotions or thoughts ?
And its all over the world, not just in UK or USA its everywhere.
On the Original Post about that PC-Hunting game thing;
If they are just shooting at paper targets for scoring and etc... i dont think its that bad an idea.
Hey Lyra & Tom,
Fancy a vacation? You guys should come over to the UK sometime and see what it's like for yourselves. It's not a bad place really and I think Stuart was a little harsh on us, even if he is a brit himself.
Anyway, you guys, and anyone else on this forum would be most welcome over here.
I'll even give you a personal guided tour of the inside of Illuminati HQ.
Oh shit my cover's blown
What's weird is I've always had a VERY strong aversion to England. Since I was little. I mean really strong dislike. With no explanation for it. I've theorized that it's a past life thing, may have had some bad experiences there. Seeing pictures of it, hearing about it, reading about it...bleeeeeeeech, I don't know what it is. And it's weird because genetically I'm mostly English! Both sides, mom and dad, have major doses of English; paternal grandmother's maiden name is British, her own mother went to a British boarding school, her father was in the British military, my ancestors were Torries who worked for King George III. My mom's side is all English/Celtic/Scott. But I cannot stand "British stuff" ! So weird. So I think I will pass, but thanks for the offer! hehe
Fancy a vacation? You guys should come over to the UK sometime and see what it's like for yourselves. It's not a bad place really and I think Stuart was a little harsh on us, even if he is a brit himself.
Anyway, you guys, and anyone else on this forum would be most welcome over here.
I'll even give you a personal guided tour of the inside of Illuminati HQ.
Oh shit my cover's blown 
By "popular country sport" it means the rural areas of Britain, or countryside as it's often called here.
The main argument against banning it, from their side, is that it will devastate the rural economy. Although only a small minority of people actually take part in fox hunts it does bring a lot of money, and creates a lot of jobs, in the areas where it takes place.
Got it.
Now if they could only get those 400,000 people or more riled up and banded together over things that actually matter. Imagine what that would be like, the changes that could happen in this world....
]]>"Britain outlawed fox hunting in England and Wales on Thursday as elected legislators won a dramatic standoff with the House of Lords to ban a popular country sport that is despised by many urbanites. Some hunting supporters vowed to defy the ban."
By "popular country sport" it means the rural areas of Britain, or countryside as it's often called here.
The main argument against banning it, from their side, is that it will devastate the rural economy. Although only a small minority of people actually take part in fox hunts it does bring a lot of money, and creates a lot of jobs, in the areas where it takes place.
In the UK there is also a bit of a divide between rural folk and people who live in urban areas. Countryside people hate to see urbanites 'meddling' in their affairs, and this is how they see the ban on fox hunting.
I think that article is extremely misleading because it gives you the strong impression that fox hunsting is a very popular UK sport. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just that the relatively small number of people that do support it are extremely vocal and proactive about their support. Officially there are over 59.6 million people in the UK, and I would guess that about 59 million of those have absolutely no interest in fox hunting.
]]>Please be aware that the people who take part in Fox hunting are 99% upperclass twits. Fox hunting is not a popular 'sport' here, in fact I think the vast majority of British people are dead against it. I don't think I know a single person that's ever taken part in a foxhunt, and I think 99% of the British public would say the same.
Well I hope that's the case. The article makes it sound like it's popular not only with the upperclass but with the average Brit in general, because it says over 400,00 people showed up to protest this last year!! 400,000!! Wow. And I don't mean to make generalizations about all Brits....I used to have a coworker who was British and a vegetarian member of PETA. You go over her apartment and she's finding a way to slip you a PETA brochure that shows how animals are cruelly tortured at meat farms. (she's the one who first exposed me to that and planted the seed for later...) So yeah, I do realize that it's not all Brits. And probably not even the average Brit. But I do wonder who those 400,000 people are comprised of.
Anybody remember the old Disney movie "The Fox and the Hound" ? Boy did that make me sniffle when I saw it as a kid!