I was fairly well in the skeptic camp and then just had a rush of strangeness around the turn of the millenium.  I started consciously doing research and when you're a 'seeker' you can't really stop even when you know you've gone too far, or know that you can't ever know the Real Truth right now but whatever you think you know now is enough to mess you up.  I ended up getting branded as having bipolar disorder because of it so now I have to live with that but I've recovered quite well compared to how it could be I suppose.

I also still use drugs (mainly MJ and not constantly) as a 'gateway' or to tap into some other sense of perception.  A lot of people here seem to think that's bad and they are probably right.  For them, and maybe also for me.  It does get me out of the box and help me deal with my life to some degree but I'm also fairly certain it opens me up to Them/It/Whatever more.  I've known this for some time and just deal with it; either ignore it or try to find it amusing or sad.  The whole 'tweaking out and thinking you're hearing voices from strangers or seeing strangely related phenomena' while on drugs becomes a cliché, especially in a big city.  Whatever.  We all are where we are and we deal with our shit accordingly.

The important thing is to not get anymore freaked out than necessary, and mitigate it.  Try to set aside some time for it if you know you're going to have to get freaked out and there's no way around it.  Just get it over with.  Then go back to doing whatever it is you do carrying whatever burden you think you're carrying, but be as aware as you can and don't take any shit you don't deserve from anyone.  Don't even take any you do deserve if you feel like they're doing it just to get at you.  And needless to say don't go around coming off like a paranoid freak or you will likely attract unwanted attention.  Hope this helps.

so what's a good place to start with icke?

My recommendations would be:

1.  I Am Me, I Am Free - The Robot's Guide to Freedom
2.  Infinite Love is the Only Truth, Everything Else is Illusion

I hesitate on The Biggest Secret and Children of the Matrix, his notable "big books, only because they're such a jumble of information that it's hard to read straight through anyway.  It's info overload, a lot of it is the same repeating info. about the "Illuminati controllers," and not all of it's really important anyway. 

The Infinite Love book was his latest, from a couple of year ago, and it was the most evolved of the bunch, not devoting like the first 150 pages to more of the same about "the illuminati, the illuminati" the way the others do.  The Robot's Guide to Freedom is shorter than all the others, and while it still gets into the "illuminati conspiracy," it does so in a more straight forward way, with a lot of focus on the spiritual aspect of things written in a down to earth, personable way.  So, those would be my two recommendations.

In this order you might want to read with "The Biggest Secret" touching heavily on The Reptilians.

And The Truth Shall Set You Free

The Robots Rebellion

The Biggest Secret

so what's a good place to start with icke?

madsketcher wrote:

I'm even worried that an old friend who I knew WAY before I got caught up in this is in a secret society/group.  I recently visited him at his home (He is currently living with his parents and has two children) and he started throwing those weird signals at me - meanwhile, his dad (who works for the FBI) was sending me signals from upstairs (very clear, loud coughing).  It was very late - there is always an orchestrated moment of "Let's try to freak him out right now," and maybe two or three strange things will be initiated, leaving me a bit nervous and annoyed.

Ugh. Danger. Sensitization to an external system of approval and disapproval based on some undefined criteria. Coughs, knocks, pitying nods, strange signals at the corners of your vision. Do you need this kind of behavior from people who are claiming to be your friends and should want only your safety and well being for even one moment of your life?

As you're not "in" on what will generate an approval response from these "friends" they'll begin (if they haven't already) to display random signals of disapproval for no apparent reason to confuse you and break down your self esteem and values. Soon, you'll be seeking outside approval in the eyes of strangers for every emotion, idea, and move you make.

At the same time your reason, natural senses, and perhaps your spiritual defenses are being subtly worn down by strange manipulative tactics, you're being slowly exposed to secret society literature. By leaving this "secret society" paraphernalia laying around for you to see the goal may be for you to become intrigued by it, to request your own copies, and finally to accept the ideologies expressed within. You want your "friends" to like you, right? They'll stop behaving in ways that make you feel uncomfortable and approve of you if you share their views and join their club, won't they? Perhaps the key is you must to choose to subscribe to these often narrow and skewed ideas so that there's no clear violation of your free will.

Lose them.

Wow... interesting.  That gives me a different perspective on it... as in, these people trying to convert me.  See... it STARTED in 2004 with an authoritarian sort of society (corrupt, secret police basically) using sonic weaponry on me and group stalking/blah blah blah and then I sort of wandered (or was I lured?) into a more occult secret society... but I was already friends with some of these people since 2002 (My friend who has children I've known since like, 95 or 96).  I dropped a "friend" last year after I realized she was bad for me... like so many of the others, she had depression... and she smoked a lot of pot.  i mean all the time... i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, but if you're using it to treat depression i imagine it could numb you to certain positive energies.  when i expressed my belief in the spirit/spirit world, she slowly/progressively revealed to me that she practiced magic... a psychic i spoke with later told me that she was getting paid to sell magic tips to many people and hold power over them... the psychic knew absolutely nothing about her except for her name.  it seemed to fit in with what was going on - the strange occult ties she seem to just randomly have, that i didn't really think about before... things like spelling out "tarot" on the scrabble board... saying "I like darkness" ominously (after she turned off the lights during a movie)... KNOWING things i have said when i was in private... right before i decided to leave her, we had this rapport going on and it made me feel like i was just going to find out more and more about her world... but at the same time, while she was helping me (and i do think she helped me), there was still that uneasy feeling of "this isn't really your friend".  even if she DID care at that point, she wasn't my friend.  we did a rune spread shortly before i dropped her... i imagine we would have explored a lot more if i had stayed in contact with her. 

as for the friend i spoke of with children... i don't know if he practices the occult (he's more of a deadhead/hippy)... but after that night at his home i know that there is a big secret.  and as i mentioned, his dad works in the FBI... but he's also a really big member of his church and actually was a missionary for a couple of years.  when my harassment started, i actually contacted him to see if he knew of any similar abuse... he actually got horribly impatient with me towards the end of the call and insisted that he had to leave with his family.  it was out of character and just weird. 

i don't think that all of these secret societies are trying to get me "in" - but what you are describing with my roommate makes me think so.  the constant subtle teasing - but at the same time, a real inclusiveness.  "I love you" was being thrown at me from his best friend who I didn't even know well and who seemed to be trying too hard to create an illusion that we were buddies when in fact we were acquaintances.  my roomie told me that someone at his job was interested in secret societies and asked him about them.  i didn't think he would be trying to influence me.  but it makes sense.  i've heard him yelling at one of his "friends" like she was a SUBJECT... but it was in private.  and i wasn't supposed to hear it.  this, from a guy who is a low-talker!  anyway... lots of fun.  his astrology information also has some dangerous aspects in it, particularly his pluto placement. 

i'll lose them but i'm not sure who else will try and integrate into my life afterward... it just seems normal these days.  if anything, all of this has given me more strength than ever, so i actually feel glad to have experienced it all.  i have power now, despite the subtle annoyances.  they don't bug me like they used to.  when you're put in a corner, what else can you do but fight back and defend yourself?

They woke me up with a "snap" sound this morning... cute... hey, it used to be car horns blaring.  I think (and hope) it really bugs them that I'm completely out of my mind and can have the most fun with anything they do to me.

I'm even worried that an old friend who I knew WAY before I got caught up in this is in a secret society/group.  I recently visited him at his home (He is currently living with his parents and has two children) and he started throwing those weird signals at me - meanwhile, his dad (who works for the FBI) was sending me signals from upstairs (very clear, loud coughing).  It was very late - there is always an orchestrated moment of "Let's try to freak him out right now," and maybe two or three strange things will be initiated, leaving me a bit nervous and annoyed.

Ugh. Danger. Sensitization to an external system of approval and disapproval based on some undefined criteria. Coughs, knocks, pitying nods, strange signals at the corners of your vision. Do you need this kind of behavior from people who are claiming to be your friends and should want only your safety and well being for even one moment of your life?

As you're not "in" on what will generate an approval response from these "friends" they'll begin (if they haven't already) to display random signals of disapproval for no apparent reason to confuse you and break down your self esteem and values. Soon, you'll be seeking outside approval in the eyes of strangers for every emotion, idea, and move you make.

At the same time your reason, natural senses, and perhaps your spiritual defenses are being subtly worn down by strange manipulative tactics, you're being slowly exposed to secret society literature. By leaving this "secret society" paraphernalia laying around for you to see the goal may be for you to become intrigued by it, to request your own copies, and finally to accept the ideologies expressed within. You want your "friends" to like you, right? They'll stop behaving in ways that make you feel uncomfortable and approve of you if you share their views and join their club, won't they? Perhaps the key is you must to choose to subscribe to these often narrow and skewed ideas so that there's no clear violation of your free will.

Lose them.

if movies that have certain themes, wouldn't that be misinformation, because if hollywood is part of it all, then wouldn't the powers that control them make sure that certain info does NOT get to the controlled masses?

"If Hollywood is part of it all . . ." Just as you mention, Hollywood is only a part of "it", not all of it. You don't have to buy all of the stuff that comes out of the machine, and it's probably not all that healthy to try. Evaluate what your being shown and how it breaks down within you. Does one need to spend ten dollars and two hours out of a day watching a bunch of vacationers picked off in numbingly terrible ways by some mishappen psychotic beast? Odd. I've found it healthy for my own psyche to get up and walk out of some films that are only seeking to degrade my experience through themes of wanton violence and hopelessness. Within the movie-making industry there's still some things to enjoy. There are great moments of inspired film-making. Perhaps it's because these dark "powers from beyond the stars" you speak of really don't have absolute control over what is produced and how it's consumed.

Slow it down. Take your time. Take it in a little at a time. Allow yourself perhaps a few hours a day to read, think, and conceptualize the negative alien/secret society/conspiracy stuff so that you don't overload and freak yourself out, which can lead to dispair. Then, why not put it away for a while and go out for a walk? Laugh. As you're reading and learning more about the ways people are being "dumbed down" through things like valueless nutrition, for example, you won't be able to help but make more healthy choices for yourself. Do the things that make you feel good and give you pleasure. Some meditate, others pray. Find what works for you to maintain a balance. Indeed, there is plenty of dark stuff out there to become aware of but there is also just as much brightness in the world, if not more.

Maybe problems arise if we take it all too seriously instead of viewing it like a game.   That approach may not work for everybody, but that's kind of how I see it at this point.   We'll probably never know the answers, and the kicker is, reality is different for everybody.  So there is no one set explanation anyway for what's happening.  There are people who've never experienced "the weird," so they look at those who have and just shake their heads.  Two people living on the same planet, sometimes within the same town, maybe even the same street........but two different realities.  Two different sets of experiences that have shown them different things.   And so you have it.  So instead of being driven mad by it all, just roll with it.  Have fun with it.  Stop stressing.  And realize you do have more power than you realize.  Out of everything you've talked about that's the most important point I think to remember and keep in mind.

Well stated.  At first, if you get bombarded with these new messages/signs/symbols and a new sort of world, it can be horrible and make everything very claustrophobic.  But you can adjust.  What I deal with on a daily basis seems to stem around interdimensional energies, secret societies/police and occult.  Since I've tapped into my personal power it has waned considerably but it is still very much there.  Here is the thing, though... can it be just one thing or the other?  I'm confused... I'm currently living with someone who to me is OBVIOUSLY in a secret society (he's got a knights templar ring, an illustration of an illuminati member in our bathroom and if you were to see how many gothic antiques flood this place you would flip your lid).  It's like he knows I know, so he just has fun with it... he recently brought home a magazine specifically about secret societies.  He is also psychic to some degree but I'm not entirely sure how powerful.  Most of the people he works with who I have met have the same sort of weird vibe about them - I have constantly been mimicked, tested and generally f*cked with psychologically by these people.  The weird thing is that I found HIS apartment ad last year and moved in with HIM (He strangely said he had a good "feeling" about me - and since then he has not talked like that EVER... not about "feelings" or anything like that... only when I met him for the first time). 

What I'm confused about is how much of it is THEM and how much of it is another force.  There are many signals thrown at me (coughs, throat-clearing, excessive sniffing), but they don't always seem to be from people who would be "in" on it.  Could this be remote influencing (i.e. remote viewing)?  I feel like it is a combination of aware harassment and unaware harassment where a person is used like a vessel.  Anyone else experience this or wonder about this? 

I'm even worried that an old friend who I knew WAY before I got caught up in this is in a secret society/group.  I recently visited him at his home (He is currently living with his parents and has two children) and he started throwing those weird signals at me - meanwhile, his dad (who works for the FBI) was sending me signals from upstairs (very clear, loud coughing).  It was very late - there is always an orchestrated moment of "Let's try to freak him out right now," and maybe two or three strange things will be initiated, leaving me a bit nervous and annoyed.  I noticed that my friend was shaking his head very slowly from the corner of my eye... this is another thing "they" do to me - they shake their heads in disapproval while looking at me.  It's happened on several occasions.  Here's the WEIRDEST part - I crashed on my friend's couch, aware that his little boys would probably come down early in the morning and wake me up.  I woke up to my friend's dad coming downstairs with them... and the oldest boy KNEW MY NAME... he asked about me to his grandfather.  There was NO way he could have known who I was.  Later on my friend introduced me to his oldest boy... it was just very weird.  When I got home, my friend left me a very cryptic message on myspace... in response to a photo caption of mine ("Ghosts can go anywhere") - he just replied "so true"... I don't know what this means.  But it's directed at me.  See, a huge element of this harassment and psychological bullying is from the fact that I have cognitive problems at this point in my life, specifically memory.  It's like they have a field day with it and use it against me whenever they see fit. 

WHY do so many of these secret society members have bi polar disorders or depression, btw!?

my diet is terrible.  that's probably why i get headaches and feel sick.

There is always time for a change, not?
At least TRY!
Change your diet/life style, try to eat better and do some bodywork((bodybuilder, dance, run)
also some artistic stuff.

okay.  interdimensional beings.  but why us?  surely there are other planets/dimensions with life forms that could be harvested too.  doesn't that play into the old "we are special, we are chosen" mentality, albeit in a twisted form?

Dreamosis already said word for word what I was going to say - who says there aren't others being harvested too.  When you talk about the Africans being enslaved for instance, just because we also don't mention in the same breath every other group in history that's also been enslaved doesn't mean we're saying it only happened to Africans.  It just means we happen to be talking about the situation with Africans at the present moment.   

Well, that's not what I said.  I was talking in generalities, I didn't say to go through every day of the year of kindergarten and remember what outfit you wore, what kids you played with, and every detail you did.  That's ridiculous.   I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote.   But I can remember being 4 and 5 years old in in kindergarten.  I have various memories of what the classroom looked like, the things we did, the kids I played with.  I still remember names even.  I remember the teacher, Mrs. McKay, and have the general memory of what she looked like.  I remember my friends at home who lived on the same street we did, I remember walking to and from the grammar school, I remember Halloween of that year, Christmas, and I remember playing in the morning at home while waiting to go to afternoon kindergarten. (kindergartens are broken up into morning and afternoon sessions.)  Just things like that.  General memories of the year of kindergarten.  But not like, every specific day.  That would be nuts.    So generalities, that's all.

Well, then there might be an issue then worth exploring that goes beyond drugs and head injuries.  What about your family?  Are you close to them?  Are there any stories they share that would jog your memory?  Do you have family photo albums that would also do that? 

Food is a big avenue for physical and mental mayhem.

Who knows.  But people do have experiences with them.  I don't think we'll ever know the answers for sure.   It can feel a bit like being in an alien ant farm I guess.

Maybe problems arise if we take it all too seriously instead of viewing it like a game.   That approach may not work for everybody, but that's kind of how I see it at this point.   We'll probably never know the answers, and the kicker is, reality is different for everybody.  So there is no one set explanation anyway for what's happening.  There are people who've never experienced "the weird," so they look at those who have and just shake their heads.  Two people living on the same planet, sometimes within the same town, maybe even the same street........but two different realities.  Two different sets of experiences that have shown them different things.   And so you have it.  So instead of being driven mad by it all, just roll with it.  Have fun with it.  Stop stressing.  And realize you do have more power than you realize.  Out of everything you've talked about that's the most important point I think to remember and keep in mind.

okay.  interdimensional beings.  but why us?  surely there are other planets/dimensions with life forms that could be harvested too.  doesn't that play into the old "we are special, we are chosen" mentality, albeit in a twisted form?

Well, who says there aren't interdimensional beings manipulating other worlds, too?

...Personally, I'm not freaked out about it.  Maybe that comes from a deep knowing that I'll be okay no matter what happens to my body or mind.

I also had a dream, two days ago, about being kidnapped and told to do something I didn't want to do by gunpoint.  In the dream I just looked at the kidnapper and said: "Go ahead and shoot me.  I'm not afraid to die.  I lived a good life.  Just do it because I won't do what you want."  And I didn't yell it.  I just told him calmly, and I woke up shortly thereafter.  ...I mean, nobody wants to be in that situation or be tortured.  But after having that dream that knowingness is even stronger: the real me is not in any danger.

i'm not trying to be difficult.  even discounting sci-fi movie plots and such, it all just doesn't make sense...at least to me. 
but damn it if i'm not interested in the whole mess.  i find coincidences in my life and in the media...
it just seems like a huge, neverending game and we may or may not be the pawns. 

as for my childhood memories, i can't just say "okay kindergarten, monday october xx: i wore these clothes and ate this and played with these kids..."  i can't do that with high school either.  and i haven't had any injuries and i noticed it before i started using drugs.  but i'm off the dope now.

my diet is terrible.  that's probably why i get headaches and feel sick.

but what about these interdimensional whatsits?????  are they like, the leaders of some race?  are there others more powerful than they????

i had a dream last night:
i was watching the news and some life form or other was brought back to earth by the last space shuttle.  the scene changed and in my basement were these little blue...blobs of clay, or so i thought.
they turned into lizards of a sort, like a dog sized lizard that was like a dog.
my dad was playing with one, letting it playfully bite him.  but it seemed like the dog/lizard was playing with him...
so then one of them, there were a few, don't remember how many, bit me.  and i woke up.
but as i woke up i was speaking, and that's what really woke me up. 
i said something like, "they want our DNA" or "they have our DNA".  it was something about DNA.

if movies that have certain themes, wouldn't that be misinformation, because if hollywood is part of it all, then wouldn't the powers that control them make sure that certain info does NOT get to the controlled masses?  and if there are no coincidences or accidents then aren't all the conspiracies wrong?  if we are under control by powers from beyond the stars (for example) and they have this absolute power over us, wouldn't that prohibit this information from even reaching us in the first place?

This question was asked in a similar way in this thread:   http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=5551

They don't have this absolute power over us, so that part is incorrect.  But to save time of retyping, the answer I gave over there was:

Could be....that doesn't seem natural.  I think one should be able to look back at each year and be like, Okay, age 5/kindergarten...what can I remember?  and so on up the line.  If you can't, and you can rule out brain injuries or too much drugs as the reason, then something might be amiss.

I don't know.  For myself I can trace it back to where it all started, specific people, specific books, specific events that led to things, and so on.  But for a lot of people they can't remember how they first crossed paths with something.  So it's hard to say.  Could be something weird going on, or could be natural memory loss. 

Maybe.  But have you looked at your diet and lifestyle?  That needs to be ruled out first.   What do you eat?  What don't you eat?  Do you get any sun and exercise?  Do you get enough water?   Do you breathe?  Do you do things that make you feel fulfilled and useful, stuff that gives your life meaning?  Etc. and so on.

Have you read David Icke?  He explains that it's hyperdimensional, non-human entities that work through the power players on this planet.   But he's not the only one saying it, that's just one well known author I could think of.

Yes.  For energy/loosh feeding purposes.  That seems to be what the ultimate goal is of all this control.   

An energy farm.

See the above explanation concerning movies. 

Now you know.  That's a good thing.  So now you can start making better and more informed choices.  But if you mistakenly believe that you don't have choice, that they actually do have absolute power over you, that this reality is on total lockdown, then I don't know what to say.  Because that doesn't seem to be the case.

i don't remember when or why i started reading about conspiracy theory. 
does that mean that at some point, some "thing" invaded my mind to expose me to it all?  like PKD's "VALIS"?
i get migraines and feel sick often.
does that mean something is keeping me down so i won't do certain things?
i'm not mocking or making light of anybody's experiences, so i apologize if anyone things that.  i'm just trying to understand.

if the nazis, and the bush family, and the jews and the government and military and hollywood and whoever else is part of a vast conspiracy, who or what is at the very top of the ladder?

and if we are under the control of the government or other groups then they are controlling us to exhibit power for power's sake...that's all they can do.  but wouldn't that mean that someone is controlling them for an even greater power?  and so on and so on?

do we get mixed up and confused because we label everything?  for example just because we call them "nazis" that name is just something we call a certain group, just for identification.  the name doesn't really mean anything, does it?
i realize that my words may be unclear.  i'm just trying to get a better grasp of this stuff. 

if movies that have certain themes, wouldn't that be misinformation, because if hollywood is part of it all, then wouldn't the powers that control them make sure that certain info does NOT get to the controlled masses?  and if there are no coincidences or accidents then aren't all the conspiracies wrong?  if we are under control by powers from beyond the stars (for example) and they have this absolute power over us, wouldn't that prohibit this information from even reaching us in the first place? 
i'm not even going to get into religion or god or the devil.  i wouldn't know where to start, as to where organized religion fits in. 
and as for books, wouldn't the powers that be prevent information from being published, and the stuff that's out there...wouldn't that be more misinfo/disinfo to keep us afraid and ignorant of what The Truth really is?

and once you start delving into this stuff, how do you function in your daily lives, "knowing" all that you do?

-ERT