I think it means somthing like, 'let go of your 'old' selfish life(style) to start a new one, witch would be more StO?

It also sounds a bit like recapitulation from Castaneda to me.

Maybe that's where the motive is different.

I'm 100 percent sure that the message that Jesus brought is to this day helping many people to overcome difficult obstacles that arise in their lives.

Yeah, and so are the messages of Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna and just about every other wise dude you could name. Jesus' message wasn't exactly unique. I'd actually say that the teachings of someone like Eckhart Tolle are far more relevant and helpful to people than the teachings of Jesus although I wouldn't advocate worshiping or idolising the guy. But at least we know he definitely exists

I don't recall saying anything about my beliefs. My whole point really is to try and NOT have beliefs. Or have beliefs but don't waste time trying to protect them. Chances are high that your beliefs are just plain wrong. I personally believe in a lot of different things but I'm also totally open to the fact that 99% of them might be wrong.

And does that include belief systems and ideologies that promote fear, violence and hatred? Cos there's a whole lot of belief systems and ideologies out there that do just that. Sorry, it may be a little spiritually incorrect to say this but I definitely am not going to respect all belief systems and ideologies particularly when they're so obviously full of shit and do nothing but brainwash and enslave people.

I have never, and would never say that "my understanding is the only one that's valid". I'm the first person to admit that I have very little true understanding of how this universe works and what the hell we're all doing here. But somehow I think we're here for better reasons than to worship Jesus! But hey, I could be wrong.

PhiConcept wrote:

lyra wrote:

1.  You're manipulating and being childish here.  Are you apologizing for this reason?  Or for a misunderstanding, as noted previously?  In changing it to this reason it's subtle manipulation to paint yourself as an innocent rescuer of a poor victim when that has nothing at all to do with anything we're talking about.

Just protecting what I believe in, that's all.

Right, and this is why the world is mostly so f*cked up. Everyone, particularly religious folk are always protecting their stupid beliefs. How about you just keep your beliefs to yourself and not get so upset when someone doesn't believe in the same things as you.

Truth is your beliefs are likely full of shit because they're based on faith, nothing else. Christians, Jews, Muslims can't all be right and chances are they're all completely wrong about nearly everything they believe in.

I don't advocate believing in absolutely nothing. But I do wish everyone would be more open to the strong possibility that everything they believe in is wrong. Then you wouldn't have to waste so much time and energy 'protecting your beliefs'. Stupid stupid stupid!

Andy

Hi Andy.

I'm not sure why you are attacking me in this manner, but you probably took the whole conversation between lyra and I out of context.  I want you to know that I'm not here to preach biblical christianity or in any case to force it on anyone.  It is however a personal preference for me to follow the teachings of Jesus as they are written in the new testament of the bible.  I'm 100 percent sure that the message that Jesus brought is to this day helping many people to overcome difficult obstacles that arise in their lives. 

It seems to me that you are very quick to judge other beliefs, philosophies and ideologies that oppose your own.  I respect your view on life and anything that is related to it because I know it is your choice and you have every right to believe anything you want wether it's based on faith, ideologies, philosophy or facts.   

Anyhow, I'd like to ask you to consider respecting all beliefs and ideologies of the world and not be so quick to close your mind to thinking that your understanding is the only one that is valid.

Peace, PhiConcept.

lyra wrote:

PhiConcept wrote:

Once again, I appologise for trying to protect a mere christian from what what seems to be a 2000 year old bashing spree.

1.  You're manipulating and being childish here.  Are you apologizing for this reason?  Or for a misunderstanding, as noted previously?  In changing it to this reason it's subtle manipulation to paint yourself as an innocent rescuer of a poor victim when that has nothing at all to do with anything we're talking about.

Just protecting what I believe in, that's all.

Right, and this is why the world is mostly so f*cked up. Everyone, particularly religious folk are always protecting their stupid beliefs. How about you just keep your beliefs to yourself and not get so upset when someone doesn't believe in the same things as you.

Truth is your beliefs are likely full of shit because they're based on faith, nothing else. Christians, Jews, Muslims can't all be right and chances are they're all completely wrong about nearly everything they believe in.

I don't advocate believing in absolutely nothing. But I do wish everyone would be more open to the strong possibility that everything they believe in is wrong. Then you wouldn't have to waste so much time and energy 'protecting your beliefs'. Stupid stupid stupid!

Andy

The Second Coming is when humanity becomes enlightened by the
Christ Consciousness, not when some holographic projection from 4D
or some false messiah aided and abbetted by 4D smoke and mirrors
comes to lead the sheeple to the make believe heaven where theocratic
spirits posing as Jesus or other holy ones enslave the spirits of the
departed and vampirize their life energy until they cease to exist or
are forced to reincarnate on earth again with all their memories erased.

Discernment is necessary on earth AS WELL AS AFTER "DEATH"

TP

Ofcourse you are free to worship as you wish and continue to expound the "gospel" as you see fit, you do not need my blessing but I beg you to investigate the validity of your convictions more thoroughly.

To the OP the question of laying down your life is created to inspire zealots, martyrs and fanatics.
Another instrument which causes the human entity to allow the brain to be overloaded with mindless life-long devotion, including martyrdom, or taking anothers life, also causing a justification to be made which gives permission to live with unholy acts.
Mary Magdalene and the life of JC is another smoke an mirror trick, the illusion grows when the focus remains upon it.

After accepting Jesus Christ as a personal Lord and Saviour a person will experience tremendous changes in their life.  The transformation will lead to becoming more and more like Jesus himself and the beginning will usually feel overwhelming while the initial changes take effect.  Any 'born again' christian will acknowledge that at baptism in the Holy Spirit a new relationship is established with Jesus Christ in a spiritual sence.  From the beginning the Holy Ghost becomes a believers personal guide and intercessor with Jesus Christ (a believer joins the spiritual body of Christ) and Jesus Christ becomes a believers ambassador to God.

Peace, PhiConcept.

Here's excerpts from one of his songs (from "Sacred Love" -2003, and the song "This War")

there's a war on our democracy
a war on dissent
there's a war inside religion
and what Jesus might have meant

there's a war on mother nature
a war upon the seas
there's a war upon the forests
on the birds and the bees

there's a war on education
a war on information
a war between the sexes
and every nation

a war on our compassion
a war on understanding
a war on love and life itself
it's war that they're demanding

make it easy on yourself
and don't do nothing

So, there are many interpretations on Jesus Christ's teachings, and religion is man-made, so who's to know who has it exactly correct?  I am a liberal Christian (non-denominational, I believe in good saints, good people, and good angels, and some good extra-terrestrials) and I don't preach fire and brimstone or try to convert others, yet I know some do, which isn't always bad (if you can help someone, or even save them from themselves, it must be good, as long as their free-will remains intact).

What about all the other 4 billion people of different religions? The Buddhists, The Muslims, The Taoists, The Native Indigenous, and many more?

Do they cease to exist at the end of the world?

Are we in end times? Many generations before us have thought so and were wrong. It says somewhere in the bible, no one knows the hour or the day, not even the angels, but only our Father in Heaven.

Christians are good loving people (except the domineering frightful hell fire and brimstone, accusatory, controlling ones) and mean well and try to help others and the world, even though some may indeed be simple minded and naive.

One thing I notice, is that the current Pope, a German and former boy scout Nazi, with an evil sounding original name of Rat-zinger, and an evil looking face, may be a sort of anti-christ, and I do know the Catholic Church has been infiltrated by satanists, evil doers, as many other Protestant Churches, but many Catholics/Protestants may be innocent followers...

It seems to me that yes, "there is war inside religion, and what Jesus might have meant".

Even Pope John Paul had a questionable background, supposedly traficking in cyanide gas that killed Jewish people in WWII.

The Inquisition and torture and burnings were horrific, and i am sure many innocent people died.

Many fundamentalist Christians are an intolerant hateful bunch, dont know how many really, but different parts of the USA are different to live in as I have learned while living in the so called bible belt.

In 2005, I went through my storage unit and gave away most all of my worldly possessions in order to lighten my load and prove to myself I was/am not attached to a material money oriented life, a cleansing of sorts, and I tried to be like a saint and travel widely and lightly, only to later get bogged down by some other material items, yet still not clinging to possessions, using them as tools to better myself mostly.  My life thus far has been one of tragedy and turmoil, yet maybe because I have not lost hope in Jesus and he still believes in me, even when I have my doubts, I will find a better life after death and mingle with the good saints, good angels, good departed spirits, and good e.t.'s.

I am willing to lay down my life and give up all my possessions when the time comes, because you don't take anything with you when you die, except your soul and spirit.

I hope Jesus Christ was/is real and provides safety, rescue, and a better future to all those who believe in him.

I am hedging my bet, and erring on the cautious side, and taking a leap of faith, believing in him and saying that I believe he is the Saviour and that we are not saved by good works alone, but by the Grace of God the Great Holy Spirit and Creator.

Whether you have read the bible or not what do you think it means?

If you haven't read the bible ponder on what you think it means, then go read about the life of Jesus and see if it still jives, is enhanced or wrong. That will be more meaningful to you than anything we say.

The reaction the Roman Catholic Church had to the reformation was a counter-reformation launched at the Council of Trent, Italy. What was created at Trent and soon after was the Office of Inquisition and the Society of Jesus (Jesuits), also created were false christian doctrine and where zionism, christian zionism, plan for Israel ect. come in.  The counter-reformation came up with a false doctrine to counter these accusation called "futurism".

1. What is Historicism?

The Historicism is the historical interpretation of many of the prophecies in the book of Revelation, particularly regarding Antichrist. The Anti-Christ, Man of Sin, or Mystery of Iniquity is the system of Papacy. The Reformers had the historical interpretation of the Antichrist. Historicism has no "gap" between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince being cut off in the midst of the week is Christ, the Messiah, who died in the midst of the 70th week of favor to natural Israel at the first advent. Historicism treats Revelation as a Book of signs and symbols.

2. What is Futurism?

The Futurist view of Revelation interprets the prophecies of Antichrist as a future literal man who deceives the world. The Futurist view interprets Revelation literally, not symbolically. There is a "gap" of over 2400 years between the 69th week and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince is the Man of Sin, Antichrist. The Futurist view was introduced by the Jesuits to counter the Reformation view of Papacy.

One thing pointed out by the protestants was the Roman Catholic church fit the descriptors in the Book of Revelation, Daniel and II Thes.2 as the AntiChrist, Beast and Great Whore(apostate church).

The endtime plan to create this state of Israel and build some temple for this false AC had to include Jews or at least a group calling themselves Jews. The first Jesuit General founder Inigo de Loyala, was that of a Belgian Jew named Eberhard Mercurian.

The whole christian-zionism doctrine was introduced into the protestants through the Scofield Reference Bible:

What protestant church founders had to say about the Papacy

Cheers, PhiConcept.

Taking the biblical accounts literally has nothing to do with fundy-ism.  Fundy-ism ended in establishing earthly institutions such as you mentioned all under one label of 'institutionalised churches'.  An average christian will not preach the gospel out of context, but when approached with questions in regards to Jesus Christ will be ready to answer them from a biblical and mostly literal point of view.  Many prophecies in the bible are symbolic in a sence that once the symbolism is understood it becomes literal.

The trouble is many earlier Christians don't think the NT material should be taken literally.  Many claim that Paul meticulously wrote his letters which can be understood in two levels, literal and non-literal, but he handed the keys through apostolic succession that the non-literal meaning can be unlocked.  Oxthodoxy is the result of incomplete revelation.  Proto-Orthodox Christians were fools.  Irenaeus said because there are 4 winds, and 4 corners of the earth, and 4 seaons, there must be 4 gospels.  In this most famous writing, Against Heresies, he said there is no way that a great teacher such as Jesus only lived a year, and Jesus must have died as an old man.  Tertulian said Paul is the "apostle of the heretics".  It's ironic that the champions of orthodoxy themselves were heretics. 

Christianity is not 2000 years of lie, but 1600 years.  It started out as a remarkable movement, and the it was hijacked by the Roman empire as a mean of mind control over the masses of people.  Everyone knows this except idiots.

I could give a thousand links right now and give a very nice and thoughtful talk on the subject, but it will fall on def ears if you are so ardent in your beliefs that jesus was a living real man who did this and did that. If I posted every expose of Jordan Maxwell you wouldnt watch them, and if you did you wouldn't "listen".

My understanding is that you believe the astrological explanation of the accounts of the bible. If you want we can have ourselves quite a debate on this subject. 

In order to understand the importance of the biblical scriptures you must first understand that over the centuries it has been distorted by the illuminati to further it's agenda in aquiring world domination.  The earliest translations of the bible into the english language eventhough they are the closest translations from the ancient languages still need concordances to understand the the context of the scripture.

PhiConcept wrote:

Once again, I appologise for trying to protect a mere christian from what what seems to be a 2000 year old bashing spree.

1.  You're manipulating and being childish here.  Are you apologizing for this reason?  Or for a misunderstanding, as noted previously?  In changing it to this reason it's subtle manipulation to paint yourself as an innocent rescuer of a poor victim when that has nothing at all to do with anything we're talking about.

Just protecting what I believe in, that's all.

Yes ofcourse, I can't speak for every belief, but christianity in the purest sence is a threat to the religious institutions such as the roman catholic church, that's why so many free spirits believing the word that Jesus Christ taught were martyred over the last two millenia.

I'm sure many notice the puppet masters, it's the choice that many don't make to cut the strings off.

Very well.

Everyone who promotes hope and faith without forcing it on others in a literal sence should be considered an ally to a likeminded person who has a different approach to the Truth.  We are all good now right?  Let's carry on then...

Cheers, PhiConcept.