Sure, there is some channeled "ascended master" material that sounds (almost) as ridiculous as this. But there is also some that is actually very profound and liberating, not disempowering as you seem to think. I don't like the term "Ascended Master" at all, but if a teaching uses it, I will look past it to judge that teaching by its quality and usefulness, not by my own prejudices or dislike for certain terminology.

My dislike has much less to do with terminology than with intent and purpose. There are many writers on my cool folks' list who've channeled information. Everybody from Jose Arguelles, to Terence McKenna and John Lilly on the mathematical/scientific side, to Barbara Marciniak and Barbara Hand Clow on the heart side, with probably a dozen others I can't think of right now...all of whom have provided me with what seems like valuable information. None of them are asking for my energy, none are setting themselves up as spiritual masters, special, judicious, or overlordly. They don't ask for adoration and don't volunteer for special duty if only we'll agree to let them in...a very big clue, that one. They simply provide information, take it or leave it. 

No, I am not supposing that most of those hollow pseudo-angelic ilk are genuine, though I'll allow about 10% doubt in a few cases to leave room for expansion.

I'm not criticizing the goals of higher consciousness, increased clarity, developing connections with our selves and/or higher self or the goal of a fully realized self -- only "ascension", the kind of ascension that nexus described here:

...and the idea that we've fallen, we're somehow not worthy of entering the higher realms, because we're dirty -- like just being here is to be covered in excrement and human effluent. We have to clean up and leave Earth, it's a penal colony of sorts* and if we're good boys and girls we can reach the goal of immortality and getting back to heaven where we'll reign as godz. The only difference between this type of ascension paradigm and traditional mundane christianity is the perception of complexity.
It seems to me that it's all a matrix builders con, a way distracting some of most spiritually aware and visionary people, and trick of light that makes them believe their work is somewhere other than where they are. I listed 3 other possible ascension definitions and I'm not trashing any of them, just this one particular node of behavior. (I guess those got left back on the Stuart Wilde thread).

I'll say it again, none of what we think we're looking for is outside of ourselves. The god, higher self, higher order, universal wave, whatever it is that we're trying to hook up with is not outside of us, but is instead our actual essence.

Daisy, I think that our ultimate aim was/is to be here, on this planet, in this very moment, and that right now I should be writing these words to you. The challenge is to remember who we are, where we came from, who the matrix builders are, where they came from, why we're all doing what we're doing and when the big wave is going to hit. We're not little kids who're trying to get home to mom and dad to sit on a cloud. We're hyperdimensional travelers who've come here on purpose to take care of business and have some fun.

It's possible that we're both the cause and solution of the problems we face, and that we're both the matrix designers and it's destroyers. We may even be the creators of this world, born into our creation to experience it fully as both shadow and light. If the past, present and future are all an aspect of now, then in the future when we become the fabulous light beings many of us think we're evolving into, we'll find that we were also those beings in the past as we are in the present as well.

*I know, it does seem a lot like a penal colony here, but we might release enough of our shadows to allow for the consideration that perhaps it's more a situation of bullies on the playground than an evolutionary blueprint.

Hi feritciva,
I will say that's a fact. The Megaoverlord crowd will never allow me on their playground, so I'll happily hang with you in hell. :>)

The thing that disturbs me about the wormfood (yes I understand that my physical body will age and die, and yes, I hold out the hope that some kind of ascension process is being developed on earth that allows us to have an immortal soul vehicle at least for awhile to enjoy all the waves of bliss that people keep yapping about) and absorbed consciousness slants is that they are so biological and scientific, the biology is just extended out into the astral and etheric fields, a kind of super conscious biology, but for me it doesn't include the spiritual element, the supersensible conscious dimension.
As has been pointed out by feedbaxlow, biology at its basest form-the survival instinct, the consuming, the absorbing etc. etc. is negative.

-lala

A couple of things that I would comment on if I may. First you say you 'hope there is an ascension process being developed to allow us to have an immortal soul awhile...'
   I don't think it's that easy, to just develop a technique or process. Do you think that in all the years, of generations of spiritual seekers, that SOMETHING would come about that would be a solid technique? It hasn't for, I think several reasons. The first being knowledge is the most valuable currency to The Powers That Be and we are purposly confussed and controled in such a way. And secondly, I think the process is personal, and has to do with unraveling yourself as a person, developing the perception to see where you need guidance and so on. I'm all for the 'we are all infinite' concept. And only personal observation, general guidlines, and impecability will increase perception.
 
  As for consuming being a negative aspect...well, maybe it is, but it is vital to survival and thats just that. I'd urge you to try not to sometime. It will an eye opening experience. Eventually you will become hungry enough to eat a live chicken...or, maybe you will just peacefully pass away and be done with this world. Free Will allows you both, and then you'd finally have it figured out no?
Me, I always say, I do this, (eating.) in moderation to have the energy to seek out knowledge and continue with my own evolution. If I were to just stop eating right now, I would inevitably die, and I'm not clearly convinced that this is indeed the answer. Once you know what to do, the doing is easy.
  Free Will, Free Will everywhere and no knowledge to drink.
  As I mentioned, even 4D STO eat, so it is said. Even THEY, that which we aspire to be (or, at least, I do.) HAVE to consume something in order to have energy to continue existance.
  Me, I think there is a balance, a way of existing that entails both pleasure and pain. The 'waves of bliss' as you call them, can only be identified by thier opposite. If you were just living in a state of bliss, you would, eventually, for your own sake of understanding, seek out something else. I think thats what Wanderers are doing. They are coming BACK here, because they long to define themselves even more, to test the odds of what they are, and the only way to do that is to challenge themselves.
   
   When you have ultimate freedom, and all the 'time' to do it, you will naturally gravitate to knowing more. And I think, we, as holograms of the universe, are all seeking just that.
   Don Juan stresses that one needs to be impeccable because we only have a certain time on this planet before we are consummed, yet again, by infinity. I think what he's trying to say is that the soul needs to GROW. That humans now, much like animals, are part of a source, and they will return to that source...unless you do the perception work to move past that to ultimate indiviuality...then you get to share with other individuals (4th Density.).

   Perhaps there is a place where new 4D graduates go. A place where everything they have ever consummed is looking right back at them. The Graduate looks at it, sees the horror of what he has done, and then the energy source looks back at it, and then shows the graduate how many thing IT ate, and so on and so on....
  They all look at eachother for eternity and maybe, just maybe that energy says:
   
  You are forgivin.

Well it might not surprise you from the rest of my attitude but as far as I'm concerned most of the purported "ascended masters" can go f*ck themselves...especially the ones of the channeled crap, radiating pseudo love and promising glory and ascendancy to their devotees. To paraphrase how it comes in through my jaded ears:

"oh my blessed, dear ones...here from my throne of ethereal light, floating high above your primitive world, I look down upon you and shower you with violet beams of love and compassion beyond anything your limited perceptions can imagine. Perhaps one day with enough effort and sacrifice <tithing> and meditation <on me> and decrees <promising your energetic essence to me>, plus a couple grand in books,<not to mention the new T-shirt designs on sale now in our e-store, as good as a guarantee for an early lift off>, and you too can be as cool and megaoverlord powerful as me. You are the chosen. Please, accept my offer of this gilded straw to stick it in the back of your necks."

[fade slurping sound]

And every time I see this kind of tripe I just want to say to them:
Hey, how about y'all gettin' off of your "ascended" asses. Squeeze your divine countenance through a birth canal, have your harddrive wiped, wake up in an embryonic meat body totally helpless and dependent on a couple of humans who immediately begin programming reality and intuition out of you from day one...and that's just a stopgap maneuver until the big bosses take over the programming.
Come on down and let's see you deal with this Age of Distractions, Lord Newage Sewage backseat driver...let's see you ignore 24/7 TV, video games, sports, movies, online gambling, a veritable universe of porn with a fetish for everyone, great dope on every corner, NS sex a mouse click away, food flown in from fresh from all over the world...and as much as you want of any of it. Let's see you how well you can see through the matrix programming and frequency adjustments that create this hologram of pseudo reality covering everything that's real and pure and natural. And all this is in addition to the age old distractions of survival, wealth and health, family and religion.
I don't care if it's St. Germain or Buddha, Allah, Jesus or Jeebus, they're going have a rough time walking in our shoes.

That was great khatru!

Maybe we're the anarchist types who will not be able to go/ascend anywhere after death. Maybe we're the elementary school kids who grimace to their teachers and stand at the corner refusing to join the elementary plays other kids seem to enjoy. Maybe we're the "bad boys" as my quantum physics proffessor once said to me back in university.

But yes, I agree this post %100.

"oh my blessed, dear ones...here from my throne of ethereal light, floating high above your primitive world, I look down upon you <!> and shower you with violet beams of love and compassion beyond anything your limited perceptions can imagine. Perhaps one day with enough effort and sacrifice <tithing> and meditation <on me> and decrees <promising your energetic essence to me>, plus a couple grand in books,<[size=10]not to mention the new T-shirt designs on sale now in our e-store, as good as a guarantee for an early lift off[/size]>, and you too can be as cool and megaoverlord powerful as me. You are the chosen. Please, accept my offer of this gilded straw to stick it in the back of your necks."

Sure, there is some channeled "ascended master" material that sounds (almost) as ridiculous as this. But there is also some that is actually very profound and liberating, not disempowering as you seem to think. I don't like the term "Ascended Master" at all, but if a teaching uses it, I will look past it to judge that teaching by its quality and usefulness, not by my own prejudices or dislike for certain terminology.

Well, supposing for a minute that they are genuine and DID ascend from Earth. They surely already had their own difficulties and distractions to overcome, even if theirs were very different to the ones we have to deal with today. And the fact that we have to deal with them is really no excuse not to work to rise above them. It's our choice whether or not to succumb to the programming.

No one likes to hear that they should give up something they enjoy (eg. TV, gambling, porn or any of the other things you listed). But what if it's actually necessary to overcome these base desires in order to reach a higher state of consciousness (and reach it permanently - without drugs)? I suppose you'll tell me that it isn't necessary, or that such a higher state of consciousness is a false goal anyway?

Okay, so what do you think we're here to do? I haven't read all of your posts on this, so excuse me if you've already explained it.

What do you think happens after death? If you think our ultimate aim is to leave the physical plane after death, then is that really much different from the concept of ascension? Or do you think we are meant to just reincarnate endlessly? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I am genuinely interested in your opinion on this. Thanks for reading.

I think i know Stuie's teaching on 'ascension'... escape at 90 degrees to the left of somewhere.

But i'm not sure what your position is on ascension.

Nexus-

I gave four different definitions for 'ascension'. Those are most of my positions. I refuse to be funneled into a set of parameters that allows no room for expansion.

Sorry I just don't believe this, it's disempowering dogma to me. Maybe you fell from somewhere and forgot your divine purpose. Feel free to wrap yourself in that blanket if you wish. I carry my divine purpose with me every minute because it's inside of me, not "out there" somewhere. If I lose track of it, I trust that it will find it's way back into my attention or kill me trying.

Well it might not surprise you from the rest of my attitude but as far as I'm concerned most of the purported "ascended masters" can go f*ck themselves...especially the ones of the channeled crap, radiating pseudo love and promising glory and ascendancy to their devotees. To paraphrase how it comes in through my jaded ears:

"oh my blessed, dear ones...here from my throne of ethereal light, floating high above your primitive world, I look down upon you <!> and shower you with violet beams of love and compassion beyond anything your limited perceptions can imagine. Perhaps one day with enough effort and sacrifice <tithing> and meditation <on me> and decrees <promising your energetic essence to me>, plus a couple grand in books,<[size=10]not to mention the new T-shirt designs on sale now in our e-store, as good as a guarantee for an early lift off[/size]>, and you too can be as cool and megaoverlord powerful as me. You are the chosen. Please, accept my offer of this gilded straw to stick in the back of your necks."

[fade slurping sound]

And every time I see this kind of tripe I just want to say to them:
Hey, how about y'all gettin' off of your "ascended" asses. Squeeze your divine countenance through a birth canal, have your harddrive wiped, wake up in an embryonic meat body totally helpless and dependent on a couple of humans who immediately begin programming reality and intuition out of you from day one...and that's just a stopgap maneuver until the big bosses take over the programming.
Come on down and let's see you deal with this Age of Distractions, Lord Newage Sewage backseat driver...let's see you ignore 24/7 TV, video games, sports, movies, online gambling, a veritable universe of porn with a fetish for everyone, great dope on every corner, NS sex a mouse click away, food flown in from fresh from all over the world...and as much as you want of any of it. Let's see you how well you can see through the matrix programming and frequency adjustments that create this hologram of pseudo reality covering everything that's real and pure and natural. And all this is in addition to the age old distractions of survival, wealth and health, family and religion.
I don't care if it's St. Germain or Buddha, Allah, Jesus or Jeebus, they're going have a rough time walking in our shoes.

The real heroes are here, on the planet. The job they're doing being done Now. We came here on purpose to f*cking do it and we intend not to be denied this time (and if we are we'll get back in and try it again in a different way).

Sure, I'm down with the Lightbeings who are involved with ours and Earth's evolution. Yes, I believe in them, they're family, they're Us when we're not here.  But, the ones I see and believe in don't deliver dogma and draw no attention to themselves or feed off of our energy. I believe in the divinity of Earth and Sun and creator spirits beyond. I even greatly appreciate and highly respect the energy behind some channeled materials, just not the bulk of the ascension stuff.

I do not.

Some are real, some would have us for dinner. Your infiltration strategy is fine. I don't get what it has to do with the kind of ascension you're selling.

Let me be more precise. Many if not most of the people who claim to be on the ascension path are simply afraid to die. They don't trust that their own divinity will carry them through whatever awaits, and want a ticket to the imaginary Big Show.
If this isn't you Nexus, more power to you.

Yes, Not only are we conditioned genetically to survive and propagate ourselves and the species, also there is powerful social conditioning (almost always underestimated) to defend ourselves, our family and friends etc.

To defend self, clan, nation, race so automatically is the "reptilian" or primitive brain operating without awareness intervening. You can call this the matrix, hive mind, lower-ego or whatever.
I'll stick with the classic time honored word= ego-delusion.
This is not a theory. We are partially reptilian genetically and this is some of our most basic "programming"

In the age of nuclear weapons and temperature shifts this same automatically triggered defense could mean thinning out the population radically or even global extinction.
Apparently every planet reaches this stage where it must move forward in dramatic way or live in a hellish torment of nuclear holocaust, massive earth changes or subjugation.

There MUST be another way since this primitive survival instinct is certain death or suffering unless we evolve quickly.
As Khatru suggests that is what many of us may be here for.
We can tip the balance towards a more spiritual or global consciousness
But our own inner awakening goes much deeper than finding someone who is "doing this to us".
"We have met the enemy and the enemy is us"

The cabal is counting on us to do our best club swinging, rock throwing and race hating.
It really comes down to this:
Can we resist the temptation to scapegoat, blame-find and moralize?
Can we turn the focus around from the insane "it's the other's fault" to the sane "we are all one planet",
and start to immediately do our work?

We need to radically transform consciousness itself into awareness and (as nexus point out) this happens one by one.
But if you are in sympathy with the awakening planet, this shift is palpable and spreads like wildfire when you are in direct contact with one who is shifting or shifted. Don't doubt that this is a unique opportunity in history.
We are individually responsible on some level to tap into our unified true self. It is never far away or something you have to be perfect to attain.
when we are present and open to "what is" mere survival is no longer relevant, we are indestructible with "knowledge"...
right understanding= right action.
we can flourish instead of the reptilian brained "compete and survive" downward spiral

This may be the the same as DNA realignment or mutation on a massive scale, DNA triggering/emerging of a crystaline structure within, an ability to see our intimate connection to all life/being universally.
It doesn't matter so much how you name it or visualize it. but it is here in each moment you are willing to meet the now.
The Subjective/objective dichotomy is null. Inside/outside becomes meaningless. Time thinking and duality relating becomes reinterpreted. We are what is and nothing is outside that.
This does not mean you will forget your name or what you have to do today.
It just means not being limited to the concerns of a constricting, conditioned "me network" of the brain.

Guys, this is WAY OT, but I just wanted to let the three of you--Khartu, Greycat and Lala-- know that I love reading all of your posts.  There's something about each of you that causes me to really look forward to reading what you've written, and I've especially enjoyed the exchange you guys have had on this thread.   

Now, Lala, you said you've sensed an alien presence even inside Kombochu mushrooms, and I once read a story that relates to exactly that.  A woman who grew them (or brewed them, whatever people do with them) kept them in her bedroom.  She really felt she had developed a friendship with them, as though they were entities in their own right with whom she could communicate with.  She went away on a business trip, and when she came back her kombuchu's were alarmed.  According to her, they actually communicated to her that while she had been gone, her husband had cheated on her right in front of them!  She confronted her husband and he confirmed the story.  Their marriage didn't last much longer, but for the short time that it did, he insisted on keeping the mushrooms far away from him.

Before I read that story, it had never occurred to me that mushrooms that weren't psychedelic could communicate or have that alien presence within them.  After I read it, it made perfect sense, and I realized that I'd already known this about them.  Some people are in tune with that energy-- like me, for example.  I wouldn't dream of having pizza without mushrooms, and I'm always drawn to look at the different species that pop up in the lawn or woods after a rain.  I get excited when I see species' I haven't seen before, and I often take pictures of them.  On the other hand, I know people who can't stand mushrooms in any form.  One person I know is allergic to them, and another person gets sick just thinking about the texture and flavor of the edible ones.

I'd be really interested in knowing what accounts for this.  Why would one person have an affinity for them and another wouldn't?  It seems that with all of the teaching plants, some people resonate with certain ones, but not others.  I wonder what determines this.

You are talking about Laura Lee Mistycah aren't you Lono? I have some of her grid rocks she thinks they have positive ET in them as well. They are funny little guys I've lost two of them they just disappeared. And if you have one on your bed your astral/dream stuff is far out.

lala said she is "having it" and is thinking on it...

i agree and i don't understand what that fellow was on about back in SW
anyway here we all are and it's all ours! Happy full moon

I think we should make it a rule that if you're going to post on the Stuart Wilde thread, then there should at least be some reference to Stuart Wilde or his work in the post.

-FMO alert-
I'm wondering why you feel this way. If something about Stuart Wilde gets a lively conversation going and subject matter comes up that's a light year from the thread's title, but still manages to attract a small crowd of viewers and enthusiastic participants, it seems like that would be something we should celebrate, not complain about.
And Lyra...there was nothing that was brought up lately in this thread that was worthy of mention so you had to go look at the SW site to try and take the thread back on track? What possible service could that provide except to create a distraction from the current level of discussion?

Ah, now I see feedbaxlow has come up with a creative solution that should please everyone...definitely a positive step. However, I stand by my comments.

[[size=10]ahem...just when I was thinking that the freakin' moon doesn't affect me, 'cause last night it just felt so right watching it's gigantic orange orb as it rose over the treetops... it struck me that the critical comments about this somewhat OT subject matter peeve me in exactly an opposite and perhaps greater way to how the commentators above are peeved.
This is hopefully my one and only full moon outburst for this cycle[/size]]

Anyway I did make it a point to mention SW back in post 229, but alas I forgot in the next post, which ended up being all about clarifying the earlier one. I quote myself:

Though, I honestly don't know how aya compares to psilocybin, especially in this matter of communing with devic intelligences. I'd be very interested to hear about it if anyone has information or insight about it, or a comparison of experiences between the two.

I've been thinking about Lala's mushroom comments all day. It does make sense that if shroomin' shrooms are carrying alien info from across the cosmos, so might all their relatives be carrying information as well. We might also pay our respects to the big white ones that can send you off on a permanent OBE. And then there's fly agaric, which I see growing quite often, but haven't ever been able to bring myself to sample, as I understand the "high" is brought on by some level of poisoning.
I'm going to keep this in mind for the future and see if anything else falls into place.
One thing about the anecdote, I can't imagine why the kombochus would give a crap that the woman's husband had had sex in front of them. This is as bad as some parrots I've heard stories about. Unless.... the husband's GF was a mushroom hater.  :~)

Obviously you're having none of my talk about devic agreements and Earth's energy as a shared commodity. It's only organic matter that dies, and it would die at some point anyway. The energy is simply shared between the consumer and the consumed, both benefit and nothing is lost, and all of it is a part of a process of Earth experiencing itself subjectively. Then we come into the picture, and have brought into the realm of Earth our sentience where we're experiencing ourselves subjectively, but Earth objectively. It's only by this ground plane view that these ideas about polarity come into being.

nexus wrote:

This and what GreyCat wrote about our culture being so divorced from death inform each other in this way to me: What our culture considers the "natural process of aging," is humans flipping out because they are experiencing the diminishment of the lower ego (and here is where if we prepared for death as a cultural norm, there would be vast opportunity at this point to fuse with the I AM presence.) But, this period is considered psychologically to be all about loss-loss of health, loss of faculties, loss of identify, loss of value and then the ultimate loss-loss of the body. It is the way we condition people to perceive death. Not as a gaining of spiritual intensity, but as a loss of functioning. All the fears that nexus speaks of are associated by us with the body. Again, this is a biological way of looking at a spiritual process.
-lala

Who... Stuart Wil... Huh? I'm sorry, I forgot all about him. Put abashed smiley here, please.

But khatru and nexus opened up the ascension point, which is technically, I believe, related. So they made it right. Also, this thread led to talking about interdimensional awareness, a natural segue, but I do apologize for my oblivion. There are just so many interesting points being brought up in this thread, creatively it gets an A+, although I probably get an F in ability to follow instructions. To me, it is a credit to the work of SW that it could catalyze this type of in-depth discussion about the nature of consciousness and all the dimensions of perception that are entailed. There are people writing with a lot of heart on this thread.-lala

But anyway to continue with my oblivion, and I will deal with the consequences later:
Lono contributed a good yarn:

I knoowww... they have such a strong conscious presence and it is so other-worldly, like a sci-fi story about spores from outer space! They had a strong deep space frequency to me. It was like having a pet gelatinous mass to have that kombucha culture. Stuart Wilde and his work.

I'm in for it now. I have to have some enjoyment here. I'm an agent (of my own inner teenager).
Forgive me. Indigo... you started the thread... where are you?
-lala

Hi Khatru,

I think i know Stuie's teaching on 'ascension'... escape at 90 degrees to the left of somewhere.

But i'm not sure what your position is on ascension.  You seem to mock the idea of ascension as being an emotional pathology entertained by fearful egoists.  Then you mention that perhaps some people will coalesce their oneness and stay on earth.  And never ascend?  Well many souls have already ascended and every soul who has ever ascended has first become one with God here in materiality.  They have certainly "coalesced their oneness" here by spiritually harmonising all levels of their being.   Do you imagine that "ascension" is a recent new age concept?...  tailor made for deadbeats?  Or do you see it as an old age concept...  tailor made for deadbeats?  Not much of a choice i know but seriously do you think anyone has ever actually ascended or ever will?

Instead of ascension being a delusion,  could it be a persistant dream because the dream originates in the higher Mind and is therefore true?  And all we have to do is capture the divine dream and take the spiritual steps pre- ordained by the spiritual Self to attain it?  You virtually say the same thing for the resurrection of the earth/ world... why not ascension.  Ascension is real and it has been going on before and since the first soul ever fell into duality consciousness.  We're the ones who didn't ascend because we didn't fulfill our divine purpose and it's been so long we've forgotten that we're supposed to. [ Neither did Stuie ENT DOC ... that technically fulfills my obligation.  This thread is about Stu after all]

But souls who have ascended have stayed on earth to fullfill their divine plan then they ascended to the spiritual plane where they continue to inspire embodied people in all facets of life.  They don't abandon earth's people just because they've transcended the body Khatru.  The world has to be changed through us that is why "a compassionate thought from above" has not been the way to change the whole world in the blink of an eye.  But just because a world solution hasn't been imposed from above that is no reason to surmise that ascended masters dont exist.  Freewill and personal responsibility are upheld in this universe.   That is why you haven't seen an instant solution to everything.

You seem unable to entertain the possibility of the existance of Cosmic beings and ascended masters because you hinge the whole thing on your expectations that someone upstairs should be able to just snap their metaphorical fingers and change everything on earth for the best.  Well they could do it but that is not how the game is played as you say.  Your absolutely right that we have to incarnate and change it from the inside ourselves because we have contributed our share of the problem.   As you suppose, thousands of incarnate Christs really is the answer to changing the direction of evolution because that kind of demonstration would have a much greater impact that one Christ appearing.  One Christ appearing is too easy to deny isn't it?  The appearance of thousands of Christs on earth is the reason why a few Christs and Buddha's have appeared over time.  ie...  so that we would become the same Christ [in greater numbers] and change the world from the inside.  That is the reason why there is so much opposition and denial of those historical examples.  The ascended masters and Cosmic beings are real and they are here to help the awakening happen.  Their presence with us is not mutually exclusive to us needing to attain Christhood ourselves in great numbers.  They have much to offer us attain it.

The individual ascension of the soul is real.  The souls who have ascended have overcome the lower- ego which includes overcoming all the fears you mentioned. ie. fear of death, fear of the loss of control, fear of the loss of self...etc   Their individual souls have risen in vibration and, after the change called death, fused with the individual I AM Presence in the ritual of the ascension.  This happens individual by individual and each one's self conscious awareness is never lost.  The resurrection of consciousness began for one and all through surrendering to the inner Christ self and allowing that spiritual Presence to literally consume the energies locked in the lower- ego.  This freed their souls from all affections for the dense vibrations of materiality and therefore freed the soul from  the necessity to re- incarnate on earth again. 

That is not an easy thing to do but those who have done so have served life well.  They have been "weighed in the balance and NOT been found "wanting" [desiring].  Therefore they are free.  They have become what you appear to mock in the 'dreamers'.  ie.  Super[conscious] beings, and therefore invincible, immortal and most definitely conquerors of evil [having proven it so in their own beings].  You make all that sound like a ridiculous dream born out of pathological child psychology.

At least we only dissagreed with half this time Khatru.  We seem to be getting closer together   [smiley]