the Mr. and MRS BOOKS!! O MY GODS I DIDNT KNOW ANYONE ELSE READ THOSE !!!!!

they are my absolute favouritest childhood books, o man. you just zapped me back 15 years to my childhood.

You know, I never seriously considered that anybody could be here against their will.   I asked the question, but then like I wrote, I assumed we all figured we came here on our own volition.

Souls being forced to incarnate.........yikes.   What a concept.   I had / have a friend in California who reminded me of what you were writing.   He didn't get this whole existance thing.   Eating, having to maintain the physical body.   He felt uncomfortable in a physical body, used to ALWAYS bump into things because of that.  I got him a picture of that old kid's book character "Mr. Bump" because of that!    (remember the Mr. and Mrs. books for kids?   Mrs. Perfect, Mr. Happy, Mr. Grumpy, etc?)   He had the pic up on his wall.      But yeah, he sounded a LOT like you did in your post, and until recently, he was the only person I'd ever encountered who was forever complaining about physical existance and "having" to be here.    He'd always talk about how he didn't know why he was here. 

So, the question is...........can a soul be forced to be there?  And like aaron said, wouldn't that be the ultimate violation of free will?   hmmmmmmmmm........

Absolutely, of a certainty, I was dragged kicking and screaming into this incarnation/incarceration against my will, and delivered into it likewise. Knowing myself as I do, I would Never have agreed to this situation. I've spent my entire life as though I wasn't really here, generally having little interest in even the things everyone has in common: planning for the future, establishing relationships, sex(!). I don't like the inconvenience of having to eat every so often. I resent having to tend to my body. This whole human existence thing just makes no sense to me. Would this be natural for one who did not choose to be incarnated here?
I would consider myself to be STO more than STS, but from the descriptions, I'd have to say I'm both at once. Without a clue to my next move.
Part of me says that all perceived "reality" is meaningless, and to try to understand it is folly, a trivial pursuit, since it's by definition a sham. If everything just winked out of existence it would be fine by me. And I think the status quo, i.e., brutality, perversion, power, control, deception, etc., is an argument for "terminating the experiment." Bill Hicks called humanity "a virus with shoes" and I'd tend to agree.
A bigger part of me has a great compassion for living souls. I try to be as kind to those I meet as possible. Even though so many of them are revealed to be not only STS, but sociopathic. If not vampiric. Or black holes. My compassion and empathy are reserved for individuals with real problems not of their own making. It's a judgment call, but I really don't "recognize" those who wish to have control over others. I only pay attention to the oppressed, less-fortunate souls. Victims of mean people.
Enough of that.  Montalk made some points that apply to those who choose this manifestation, but do they apply to those who don't? Is it possible that my particular orientation is not correct? That is, are all the things that tell me I shouldn't be here, that I never agreed to it, that some mistake has been made--are all these lies?  I want to ask: If it's possible for a soul to be incarnated here against its will, wouldn't that be the ultimate violation of free will? And what in the hell is a reluctant 3D supposed to be doing here? Any wisdom is appreciated.
I realized I've gone off track for this thread, but lyra's question was here, so here this is. The subject of unchosen incarnations probably deserves its own thread.

When it comes to STS and STO, you have to differentiate between where you are versus where you are going. You can be on the southside of town, heading north. Likewise, you can be 3rd density STS but have an inclination toward STO.

Moving toward STO isn't as stringent a qualifier as actually being STO. That's why there can be good in the world, why people can have good intentions and live from their hearts (that is an STO direction of movement) -- while their actual location is in STS territory occupying STS bodies that require certain STS needs to live, making them STS while here.

From what I understand, the moment you actually become STO you disappear from 3rd density in a flash of enlightenment. After that you can reappear in 3D at will, without need for anything STS. This is far beyond having good intentions while still being a 3D STS, which is a step in the right direction but not the same as having reached the promised land.

As for Wanderers, the whole point of incarnating into 3D STS as STS beings is to be on par with others who are here and thereby be of greater service to them. Wanderers start where others start, as screaming 3D STS babies who eat and poo -- and as they grow up and raise their awareness in notches ever closer to their true STO self, they help others follow the same direction.

I agree that eating other creatures (that includes plants!) is an STS act. It's certainly not serving the creature to eat it, therefore it's not STO. And if not STO, then STS. Eating is a necessary act, however, one that we agreed to as a condition of incarnating here - an agreement that probably came with other agreements like the possibility of being abducted and eaten by higher ups in the STS food chain.

  Dear Lyra
kind regards
I agree with you to a degree but I still believe that we cannot help being STO souls in an STS world.
What exactly is your definition of an STS mentality?
STO souls try to do things without harming others and try to do good.
Yes we are all inclined to ourselves first but we can help others.
Untill I know your definition of what exactly an STS mentality is then I can't comment.

I believe I already stated it several times, but I'll mention it again, and approach it from a different angle.

Question:  did you agree to incarnate here?   Or were you brought here against your will? 

Now, if you agree that you chose to come here on your own accord than that means you came here knowing full well what the deal was with this realm.  It's a realm where you have to eat living plants and kill living animals so you can live.  Other beings will have to be sacrificed and killed so you can exist, period.   It's a realm where the primary frequency is very negative, masculine-dominated Service to Self.   This world / realm is STS, and it means anybody who willingly incarnates into it is slipping back into STS and choosing to live in STS.

(Now, if you believe that you were brought here against your will, well, that's a whole other topic.    )  I'm making an assumption that you would agree that you incarnated on your own free will.  If not, then my apologies. 
 

STO serves self through others.  It wants what's best for others, and puts others before itself.  STO doesn't kill creatures so it can keep existing.

The problem here is how we're both defining STS.  You have your defination of it, and I have mine, which is based on the Cass, Ra and Marciniak material.    We can go around and around about it all afternoon and evening, but it's pointless.     Like I mentioned earlier, many people don't want to see themselves as being STS, they believe they're better than that, above that, or whatever.   "Oh, that's not ME.  *I'M* not STS!  That's only for the evil Draconians!"    And they try to rationalize their STS actions, play them down, sugar coat them, etc.   Just because we're not an 8 foot tall winged draco eating small animals and children for lunch and feeding on people's fear / anger / sex energy doesn't mean we're still not STS.   There are degrees of it.  STS is STS, whether it's a smaller more "harmless" version of it, or the more serious Draco version.

Just my two cents.   Again, when people are using two different definations of something then it's impossible to come to an agreement.  So we'll just have to agree to disagree.   

Meat is not necessary for protein, it is like everything else, something that has been programmed into us…yes, possibly O blood types do require more protein.  Acquiring protein from non animal sources just requires thinking outside “the box“? and spending a little more time planning meals.  Meat is quick, convenient and a no brainier, that is all.  The reason I stopped eating meat 31 years ago was met a vegetarian whom I had great respect for who told me about the adrenalin an animal experiences when being killed, that I consumed the adrenalin and therefore was eating the animals fear.  I decided to stop eating fear. 

If we are in general agreement about the dracos, and that we have a reptilian brain at the base of our brain structure,  and that the reptilian brain controls our fear, then would it not make sense to program in the consumption of a particular food stuff that would keep that reptilian brain fed?

Eating or not eating meat most certainly does not determine sts, sto or stn(service to nothing lol)…it can be a way to reduce the consumption of fear based modalities.

If one is really eating meat for protein then one must kill the animal being and consume raw for the max protein benefit,  also making sure to kill an animal being that has not been fed antibiotics, steroids, pesticide laden grain, fluoridated or chlorinated water and a few other things. 

So, everyone go get your spears and CHARGE…Remember, running through a farmer’s field yelling charge may get you shot, so do be careful.  I’ll be waiting till you get back sitting under the tree and eating an apple…sigh, life can be so difficult sitting and munching…

http://www.all-creatures.org/health/proteindebate.html
Protein
Proteins are necessary for creating and maintaining hormones, tissues and sustaining growth in developing children and teens. There are 20 amino acids commonly found in both animal and plant proteins. There are generally considered to be eight amino acids that the body cannot make itself which need to be obtained from the food we eat:
Methionine
Lysine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Phenylalanine
Valine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Controversy
The question brought up by many who do not understand the Vegan/Vegetarian diet is "If you don't eat meat or dairy, then where does your protein come from?". Contrary to popular misconception, protein can be found in several plant based foods such as suggested below:
Legumes: Peas, lentils, chickpeas and most beans.
Tofu: A great source of protein and calcium as well.
Nuts and Seeds: Peanuts, Sesame seeds, Hazel nuts, Almonds, Sunflower seeds, Pumpkin seeds, and so on.
Grains: Barley, wheat, buckwheat, oats, pastas, breads, rice
Recommended Daily Allowances (RDAs) [4] of protein are as follows:
Infants: between 12 to 14 grams (g)
Children: between 16 to 46 g
Adolescents: need between 46 to 59 g
Although protein is a necessary part of everyone's diet, it can be detrimental when consumed in greater quantities. High protein diets can compromise our kidney function by causing our kidneys to work harder - releasing more creatinine in the process. In women especially, a high protein diet restricts calcium absorption which sets a path to osteoporosis.
http://ighawaii.com/naturally/newslette … otein.html

Raw food provides enzymes, unaltered nutrients. That's what our animals used to eat in the wild. Heat processing has negative impact on the nutrient value.
A likely cause of the decreased in amino acid digestibility with increasing heat treatment may have been the formation of cross-linkages proteins. Cross-linking reduces the rate of protein digestion by preventing enzyme penetration or by masking the sites of enzymes attach and can occur between many amino acids. However, lysine, cysteine and phosphoserine seem to be the most susceptible. There was no effect of the additional heating on the level of amino acids including lysine in the fish meal. However, there is an evidence of cross-linkage formation as increased heat treatment. Another possible cause is increased heat treatment increased gut endogenous amino acid excretion.
Untreated protein had less lysinoalanine than other two. Lysinoalanine is an unnatural amino acid derivative formed during processing of foods. The formation of lysinoalanine in the treated proteins was accompanied with a loss of cystine (73-77%), threonine (35-45%), serine (18-30%) and lysine (19-20%). The alkaline/heat treatments caused significant (P < 0.05) reductions in protein digestibility of milk protein (99 vs. 73%) and soybean protein (96 vs. 68%).
The processing treatments also caused a drastic negative effect on protein quality,

  I disagree about your anaology about STO souls eating animals therefore being STS inclined in that respect................what are we to do?
Are we to starve?
What about people who need protein?
I think its just a balance of STO souls and STS souls.
yours thankfully
John

No, we're not to starve.   When we came here, we agreed that part of the package includes eating.   Eating plants, killing animals, etc    We made that choice to be STS.  It's a package deal.   And yes, it's like falling from grace.  Some did it willingly, coming in from higher realms.  Others are in their first stages of evolving upwards for the first time.   All of us though have one thing in common:   We live in an STS realm on a 3rd density STS planet.  As long as we're here, we're STS.  If you weren't living an STS existance, you wouldn't be here.   You'd be in an STO realm.   Some of us are striving to be STO and gravitate towards the positive.  Others are wallowing away in oblivion.  And still others are knowingly persuing the dark side.

Some people don't want to accept this, possibly you included.   But the fact is, as long as you're here, you're STS.   You will not be a full STO being until you're officially fully existing in an STO realm, and that's the way it goes.

also, if someone was a Vegan (vegatarian) does that make them STO ?

are u to say Jesus was an STS ? i do not think so.

What about Ghandi ? you consider him STS ?

Think about what your sources are saying.

I heard that the world's mass population is increasing in the percentage of STO entities.
And it is also claimed that after a certain % is hit (80% STO), the world can shift on its own, without solar flares or any cataclysms.

once again we find a conlfict between sources.

I dont understand why you think there cannot be STO entities here?
Don't YOU live your life in STO orientation ? I would sure hope you do.
STO is an orientation, and YOU decide this. not any "rules" or channels that say otherwise. it is a State of Mind, Body, and Soul.
Eating other creatures is NOT about STS/STO... it is about 3D life. we simply HAVE to consume for nutrients. in higher densities nourishment may come from the energy of the universe, and you would NOT have to eat animals... but does that mean a 4D who does not eat animals is automatically STO ??

just some thoughts.

  I think that an STS planet has to be far worse than our World is today-I agree that we do live in an STS world to a degree but there are still some great STO souls among us and they keep a slight balance between the forces of good and evil.

Hi Moralman,

From what I understand, 3rd density Earth is a completely STS realm, versus an STS world "to a degree."   ALL beings who reside here do so because they are STS.

Now...........

There are certainly many individuals who are gravitating towards the STO path.  But as long as they are here in 3rd, that makes them STS.   Why?   Because they eat other creatures to survive.   Because this a realm full of struggle and survival.    As long as you're eating other creatures and have to struggle and survive, you're an STS being, in an STS realm, who for whatever reason, has yet to make it to a higher STO realm.

There could be many reasons for why someone is still here in STS 3rd despite their STO inclination.   With "wanderers", it is personal choice.    They supposed come here to help out, pitch in and play their part in this game, adding their STO frequency to the mix.   But while they're here -- eating creatures and surviving - they have (temporarily) made themselves STS again.  They will not be STO again until leaving this realm. 

For the other 3rd density non-wanderer dwellers, again, they may have STO leanings which sets them on a path for 4th density STO, but until they actually make the full transition to 4th STO, they are STS as long as they're here.

For many who have read up on the whole STO / STS thing it can be hard to digest that they are in actuality STS.   Many for some reason don't like to think of themselves that way or want to put themselves "above that".   But we have to face the facts --  We have incarnated in this zoo.   Now why would we do that, unless there is still some part of us that is STS inclined?   For many this could be their final incarnation in the zoo, the incarnation that puts them over the edge into 4th density STO once and for all.   For others, they've already been to the STO realms and have come back, like I mentioned.   Now we have to figure out which group we fit in to.   Are we a wanderer, or are we a brand new 4D STO candidate?   Sometimes it's hard to tell.   Look within to find the answers to that one.
 
This info. comes from the C's, and the Ra material, just to quote my sources. 

What about the day-to-day functions that people now perform? What will the equivalent be in 4th Density? What would a day in the life of an entity in either the Service-to-Self or Service-to-Other camp be like?

Take a 4th Density entity in a Service-to-Self camp.

If sleep or some equivalent rest period is required for the life form, the entity wakes or arises from the bed that had been assigned. His rest may have been refreshing, but most likely not, as factors like comfort are not considered by those in charge, and one must make do with what one can rummage up or wrestle away from another. The task at hand is not subject to confusion or negotiable. If the entity is late to attending to his assigned duties, he is punished. The severity is not determined by the significance of the infraction, but by the mood and propensity of the overseer. Depending on the punishment the overseer wishes to avoid, from his overseer, the punishment may even be death, if the overseer wishes to be rid of a troublemaker. The overseer may also torture to the point of disability, if the entity being punished is not performing a key task and the overseer enjoys a power trip.

We could continue endlessly, but the reader, we feel sure, gets the drift. This situation is not uncommon in the societies of mankind, today.

Take a 4th Density entity in a Service-to-Other camp.

The entity awakes or arises from the bed that has been furnished by those members of the group who have chosen this task. Since the entities providing beds do so with empathy and caring, the beds are as comfortable and the environment as restful as resources allow. Likewise with meals. The task at hand for the entity is one the entity is looking forward to, as it has been chosen by the entity, who volunteered for the task. It is even possible that the entity has no task at present, having been granted leave for self reflection or exploration, and this leave would in all likelihood have been pressed upon the entity, rather than a request of the entity. If the entity has volunteered for a task, they are responsible for this and the others are expecting the commitment to be met come-what-may. Failure to fulfill the commitment and the resultant injury or discomfort to the group would lay upon the conscience of the entity, and it is this knowledge that creates dedication to the task at hand.

We could continue endlessly, but the reader also recognizes this environment, if only from his dreams. It is a goal of many, which could be fulfilled if only the scoundrels were not always making this lifestyle impossible.

To someone who leans STO, STS looks horrible and like something that would have to be endured.

However, to someone on the STS path, they very well may prefer that environment.  It may be better suited to their development and that may be why they end up there.

I like your description of the STS environment- it corresponds with how I see it.

Again, I suggest that those STS souls may not be wondering: "Why can't we all get along, it would be much more peaceful".  It may be closer to imagine them thinking: "How can I increase my power over others?"