Here's to Montalk! Yay

LipstickMystic aka Jennifer

I'm not sure at all...  How can we test the validity of our own self-conciousness?

And are STO and STS really good and evil?

How would an universe work with either gravity only (no radiation) or radiation only (no gravitation)?

Can the balances of justice have only one plate?

A good point.

And are STO and STS really good and evil?

How would an universe work with either gravity only (no radiation) or radiation only (no gravitation)?

Can the balances of justice have only one plate?

Your analysis seems to apply more to forums that have already been destroyed, and how these continue to maintain their oppressive nature. Further topics to explore:  how does a good forum become corrupted to begin with? How is it destroyed from the top down? How is it destroyed from the bottom up?

Well, here's the tactics I've seen used.

The agent comes in with a group of friends.  This agent is "funny."  If it's a debate forum, they also have "logic."  I put logic in quotation marks because logic to most debaters is just parroting propaganda slogans.  This combination of "humor" and "logic" causes a lot of people to like the agent and friends.

The agent, because of popularity, often lands a job helping moderate the forum.  And then it all goes downhill from there.

The agents will conspire against people who rebel against them off-forum.  They will separate their target from his or her friends (and potential friends) on the forum with lies and vicious gossip, and these tactics eventually make the target leave in anger.  I've had it happen to me in the forum I used as an example.

Therefore, there are less real people, and more and more agents and their zombie slaves, which you guys call cheerleaders.

Also worth noting is hypnotic forces present in the guru-cheerleader dynamic. It's as if the guru exerts a hypnotic pull on others and they fall into a trance. I think that being in a dream-like trance explains how some of these can be so irrational and reactive in their behavior. Scaled up it turns into mass-hypnosis, like the kind that allowed the rise of Nazism.

That's the feedback loop... I was noticing it in all sorts of interactions.  We often see it but disregard it as natural "small talk". The same socialising mechanism gets used by sowers of discord.

Like a certain person I know, desperate to participate in conversation...

Anyone remmeber those teddybears that answered when spoken to? Ever stop in the toy store, take one aside, say something to it then put it in front of another?

It was fun then, but when you realise people are often like that its scary/annoying. Also, the "chatterboxes" are more likely to speed up when the conversation is "complaining" about some common annoyance/foe/situation. It is a primitive manner of social bonding, playing to second and fourth "brain circuits", common territory and common "morality"

It plays on our tribal circuits, discussing the "enemies of the tribe." I've seen conversations (between folks that really had nothing to say) wax surreal and even vicious along this line. The poor person being discussed was actually a good friend to both... that's how it gets surreal!

Guru-cheerleader dynamics, email asides, "holding the homeland"...  Like I was saying about Nation-states, religions and political movements, the ponerization angles are the same, but internet communities move at a fast pace. That means they can disintegrate or deteriorate rapidly, but the entire process al;so happens in a very observable manner.

I still think the "matrix agency" or "dweller on the threshold" are fundamentally stupid, I daresay mindless. The mechanisms take hold where they find a handhold, a loose string to pull.

An infinite array of tentacles, yes, but little coordination. The mere SATURATION of presence makes it seem "crafty" when indeed it is just big.

The lack of elasticity in the tactics used seems to support this. I think the ponerizing force uses the Powell doctrine, not an accurate study of Sun-Tzu.

Just an idea...

Your analysis seems to apply more to forums that have already been destroyed, and how these continue to maintain their oppressive nature. Further topics to explore:  how does a good forum become corrupted to begin with? How is it destroyed from the top down? How is it destroyed from the bottom up?

What's sick is how the matrix explores with its tendrils every single node of influence on earth, looking for weaknesses to exploit in order to acquire control over that node. Doesn't matter how large or small. On a forum, the moderators and most active posters are the major nodes of influence. Therefore they are targets #1 -- its like a chess game, and if the important pieces are taken out then the game might as well be over. Once the forum leadership goes, it's all over.

I saw this for myself once, how a couple key subversive members wormed their way into the inner circle and infected the group ideology with disinformative concepts, and how the group leader succumbed to this influence due to irrationality and paranoia brought on by external persecutory pressures that really brought out the ego-survival instinct. Once they were subverted, it was simply a matter of exerting their absolute authority to reel in those weak-spined members looking to boost their own egos by aligning with bigger ones, and together these could all rain fists down upon dissenters. Matrix mission accomplished.

As for how groups can be destroyed from the bottom up... overrunning the forum or "divide and conquer" seem to be popular methods. If enough members of an incoherent, subjective, egotistical, or irrational nature participate it can drive the rest into leaving, resulting in what you said here:

The "divide and conquer" routine is pretty effective.

On the forum it usually involves an agent provocateur playing a highly polarizing role that throws candy to the ego-ridden, insecure, naive, and suggestible members while simultaneously throwing daggers at the more aware membership. Eventually one of the latter snaps and calls out this new charlatan on his game, but the other half of the membership jumps to contest the accusation. Line is drawn, sides are chosen, angry words exchanged, and trust ruined. If the moderator can be fooled into siding with "fairness and equality" and letting it all continue to avoid denying anyone their right to free speech, then the aware members leave the forum in disgust, causing the integrity and intelligence of the forum to plummet (which was the plan all along).

A sneakier tactic is for an agent to merely lurk and scope out new or manipulable members, then contact them off-line to build rapport and through false rumors and half-truths steer their minds towards having antipathy for the forum's nodes of influence. This way those budding members are deflected from interacting with the more positive and aware individuals. Once their awareness is biased, they see everything through that crooked lens and by commiserating with each other lock into place their biases. The positive nodes-of-influence are therefore quarantined, and a disaffected membership is built up for later use.

I think it all comes down to ego-mania and ego-insecurity. An egomaniacal moderator can be nudged into locking down the forum. An ego-insecure moderator can be guilt-tripped and manipulated into letting the agents run rampant. An ego-insecure membership will sacrifice truth and integrity for group cohesion and pats on the head from authority. An ego-maniacal membership arises whenever there is a dissenter threatening their identities, unifying them into a pack of mad dogs.

Most moderators never think about these issues and therefore fail to take preventative measures. What makes NR rare is that its membership is largely capable of policing itself, and I have learned from my experiences with previous forums what dangers to avoid. But still, the danger is always there, even if latent... so make use of the moment because the future can never be guaranteed.

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Also worth noting is hypnotic forces present in the guru-cheerleader dynamic. It's as if the guru exerts a hypnotic pull on others and they fall into a trance. I think that being in a dream-like trance explains how some of these can be so irrational and reactive in their behavior. Scaled up it turns into mass-hypnosis, like the kind that allowed the rise of Nazism.

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/

Funny link, check it out.    Just click on the drop down box to select a Flame Warrior....

RA=RA

ZIO=Uncle (italian)

Ra is my uncle.

Is Uncle how it's written or am I tripping on words? Uncle doesn't even look like a word to me right now. LOL Uhn-Kel...

ratio (pronounce ra'zio)=reason

It's a hot subject though, and full of ethical dilemmas. I, being ratio-centric look for a practical angle.

Zejith, can you elaborate on what you mean when you say you're ratio-centric?