That said..."Fasten up...Lock & Load!"

On the other hand STS method is the old style:  Pounding with a rock at the riverbank. 

We have a choice as to how we want to do our laundry, but we don't want to pollute the water while doing so either.

Anyways, I stand by my original belief, that 4th Density is the separation of polarities.

STS and STO occupy separate realms when their frequencies are purely STS and purely STO. That doesn't happen until upper 4D into 5D and 6D. What happens in the first half of 4D progression is different.

Recall that according to the Ra material, it takes only 51% STO ratio within oneself to graduate. It's not about learning 4D lessons so much as having finished with 3D lessons. So someone who is new to 4D can have as much as 49% STS within themselves -- that is NOT a pure STO frequency, and thus they will share quite a bit of realm space with STS forces due to shared frequencies.

This is why the C's said a couple things:

1) that after the transition, we'll be in DIRECT contact with STS forces,

and

2) that STS forces hope to control us on the other side.

If the realm split were as clean as you suggest, then we would not be in direct contact with STS forces in 4D as the C's mentioned, nor would 4D STS be able to control us there if we existed totally outside their realm of reach.

The third density process is one of choosing the relationship between self and other. In 4D, the process involves refining this choice toward increasing levels of purity, or increasing levels of love and understanding of whatever path chosen. So 4D starts with realm mixing -- and thus direct contact -- between STS and STO forces until the individuals involved align with their polarity in increasingly pure ratios until at the upper levels of 4D, realms are indeed split as you said. But in the beginning, which is what we're talking about here regarding the Wave, it's anything but.

And I agree that 4D battles can be fought through 3D, such as the ancient battle regarding the fate of humanity and subsequent "imprisonment" in the limited 3D linear time body. However, we can't expect that to be the ONLY method of battle.

For example, Ra Material Book I - Session 25 - includes the following:

It's spelled out pretty clearly there that 4D STS and STO forces do wage battle against each other. This can be either because STS chooses to charge and attack with STO then defending, or perhaps STO -- being the defenders of freewill and balance -- find necessity in correcting some imbalance or protecting freewill.

For example, if 4D STS are about to blatantly violate your freewill, then perhaps it's permissible for 4D STO to intervene, performing part of the general phenomenon of "divine intervention." Or, perhaps if 4D STO are called up to assist protecting against an unbalanced attack, they would answer the request.

Ra said that 4D STO lack the wisdom to refrain from battle, meaning battle is one of the experiences they need to progress. Now take a look at this:

Sure fits with what Ra mentioned, and combining this with the transcript excerpts Lyra posted, it's pretty clear that 4D STO do fight battles when asked and when it's for the sake of restoring or maintaining balance and freewill.

Sometimes going with the natural flow involves fighting the battles you have been asked to fight, ones that are within your destiny to fight in service to the Infinite Creator and which are also part of your learning experience. That good guys don't play chess means they don't engage in the predator-prey cycle, but that doesn't mean they refuse to battle on legitimate grounds -- at least this is evidently so for 4D STO.

In other words, rather than being wolves or sheep, they are like shepherds -- a shepherd neither attacks his sheep nor lets himself get eaten by a wolf, but that doesn't mean he's incapable of fighting. If a wolf attacks his flock, he has no qualms about using his staff to beat the wolf back into the woods.

It seems like wishful thinking to assume that after the transition we'll be greeted with gift baskets into hyper-D teletubbyland, prancing around like flowerchildren and never encountering another bad guy until our eventual union with the Creator.

Those who don't need the experience of battle will not incarnate during the first half of 4D progression...and perhaps they can go directly to the higher "STO only" realm where peaceful learning and sharing is indeed the primary mode of evolution.

---

Maybe I'll install Photoshop again and illustrate via a diagram why 4th Density STS cannot directly intermingle with 4th Density STO. I think this topic is important in regards to understanding the Law of One.

I'm happy to revise the word "hitting" with regard to the wave.  I was just using that as an analogy for "fully here".  Yes, I agree with you when you say: "I think the wave is more a gradual process. It is already affecting us and will continue to do in an exponential manner."

With regard to STO forces, I would also agree that a primary reason that they are hidden is so that they do not interfere with free will.

The C's say that the Nephalim are 3-d entities.  I understand that from a regular perspective the following sounds like a very dire possibility, but I think it is quite possible that when the 4d wave hits, much of life in 3d will be destroyed.  In fact, much  may be destroyed before the wave even hits.

I don't know if I really agree with your concept of "hitting". I think the wave is more a gradual process. It is already affecting us and will continue to do in an exponential manner. We do not need to be flooded by it if we learn to surf it.

I think most are not seen because interfering with our free-will would not be STO. We must learn at our own pace. However as it is often stressed, we are not alone, and there are many STO entities who are here to assist us and who do so if we sincerly wish to gain a greater understanding of the situation at hand.

Regarding 4D STS/STO mix-up, I originally thought they didn't interfer because each entity knew their polarity, but recent discussions about the Quorum and Illuminatis and how they tend to blend into each others as it provides learning catalysts made me think the lines between STS and STO is not so clear, and individuals may branch to other polarities, consciously or not, as they evolve. Overall this confirm a feeling I've had that you find STS and STO at any level and this is probably common to see good friends "branching off toward STS" as they evolve, which means we must always keep a clear awareness of what's happening and not trust someone 100% just because they seem to be on the same path as we are. I don't think this is due to attacks, more to the fact that we can better learn about the more subtle patterns of reality with people who are on a similar level of awareness.

RA: When an entire planetary system of peoples and cultures repeatedly experiences disharmony on a great scale, the earth under the feet of these entities shall begin to resonate with this disharmony. (B3, 68)

[Note: This has long been understood in the teachings of the Ancient East. Typhoons, hurricanes and earthquakes were seen as being caused by the disharmony of the people.]

RA: In the event of mixed harvest there is nearly always disharmony and therefore, added catalyst in the form of your so-called "Earth changes“?. It is the Confederation's desire to serve those who may indeed seek more intensely because of this added catalyst.

Here's what I have from the Ra-transcripts (study-guide).

---

Anyways, I stand by my original belief, that 4th Density is the separation of polarities. When you state they do, lyra, you are mixing concepts. They do not battle "each other" directly but through other mediums. And it really feels inappropriate to use the word "battle" because this issue is very complicated. STO is naturalistic and doesn't pursue. It services itself towards balancing that which is in disharmony. STS pursues domination and control by the act of manipulation to service itself. STS pursues STS and that which is tempted towards STS. Due to the "choice" between STO and STS in 3rd Density, STO is called in, and so both parties play a role in this particular case.

So if we look at the whole issue again, "weather" being an indication of battling between STO and STS in 4th Density is only in regards to interactions of 4th Density with 3rd Density, as opposed to the original issue of 4th Density STO battling/interacting with 4th Density STS.

The key to understanding this is "A" and "C" only interact when "B" presents them indirectly. The reason they are connected is because of the conflict that 3rd Density creates by having a "choice". Because it has to choose between polarities at this density, it manifests the "battle" between polarities. The battle of STS and STO is within the human condition; our awareness of our choices and of which orientation we choose. But this is different than a battle being present directly between the two 4th Density parties.

Okay people, here's what I came up with.  It's only a smidgeon of what's in the transcripts, but it's a start:

--------------
7/30/94:

Q: (L) Will there be a war in the sky with the aliens?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Will it be between Orions and the Federation?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Will it be visible on earth?
A: Oh, yes.
Q: (L) When will this be?
A: It has already started. Will intensify steadily.
Q: (L) Why are we not aware that it has already started?
A: It is disguised at this point as weather. It is still in other
dimensions. Will go to this one within 18 years. Anytime
within this period. The absolute time is not determinable as to
exactly when. It could be tomorrow or 18 years from now.
--------------
More regarding weather as a reflection of higher density "battling":
10/07/95:

A: We have message for you, but if NM must leave, no need
to hold her back, as message is for group. Review:; what did
we say about weather. Why do you suppose "Opal" [HURRICANE OPAL] occurred
at time, place reference point?
Q: (L) To put a stop to the UFO conference in Gulf Breeze?
Does this mean we ought to stay home?
A: Up to you, but, suggest deferment, we could tell you of
titanic battle!!!!
Q: (L) So, hurricanes are a reflection of battles at higher
levels? Did the good guys win?
A: Yes, but not concluded, and we fear for those drawn to
locator because of sinister plans by 4th density STS.
Q: (L) Plans such as what? More weather phenomena or
something more direct?
A: Both, several options open to them, and in works;
monstrous hurricane to hit during conference, or tornado
strikes Embassy Suites hotel, or bomb blast levels conference
center, of mass abductions and mental controls initiated in
order to cause dissention and possibly violence, followed by
extreme fictionalization.
Q: (L) So, there is the possibility that something really positive
could come from the connections made at the conference.
Was this directed at us specifically?
A: Yes, why do you suppose it has been disrupted as of
now? And have you noticed that the hurricanes have been
increasing in October, rather than decreasing as would
normally be true?
Q: (L) Well, then, I guess we will be staying home.
A: Free will.
Q: (L) Okay, that's it for tonight. Good Night.

--------

11/26/94:

Q: (L) So, how did the Lizzies use the light from the Service
to Others realm...
A: They used sophisticated technology to interrupt light
frequency waves.
Q: (L) Well, what I am getting out of this that you are saying
from what you are not saying is that it was almost like,... well,
was there a battle and you guys lost?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is this the same battle that the Pleiadeans talk about?
A: Yes.
--------

This excerpt relates to the mixing of STS and STO in 4th after the transition, the whole "level playing field" thing, and battling between the two:

7/25/98:

Q: (L) Well, you once said something about the transition to
4th density creating a 'level playing field.' Then, the people will
wake up and there will be a battle between the humans and
aliens...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And if it is a more level playing field, then the situation
would not quite be the same as the Conquistadores against
the Aztecs and the Native Americans against the Europeans
and...
A: Wrong, all in that drama were at 3rd density. The rabbits,
rats, dogs, etc. are not on a level playing field with you!

------

Now, there's also information in the RA Material regarding how 4th density battles are fought.

There's too much material for me to comb through at the moment, it is Friday night after all and I've got plans, but, just wanted to at least put something out there to start with.    If I can find more in the C's transcripts, or can locate something in the RA material, (or if Tom can) then I'll post again later.

But from what I understand, the "battle" between them goes through a 3rd party, another medium. Like for example one battle between STO and STS was 309,000 years ago, when STS won the planet. How did they win the battle? By what means was the battle "fought"?

The battle was fought THROUGH humanity. The battle was symbolically portrayed by the choice adamic-3D-STO-humanity made as to accept limitation via STS existence.

This is how STO and STS affect each other. By indirect means.

I don't know what to say other than I disagree with your disagreement with Wandering1. 4D STO and STS (supposedly) most certainly DO battle each other.  Don't ask me what those battles consist of, but even the C's even talked about this.   They said, paraphrase here, that battles between STO and STS in 4th manifest themselves in 3rd sometimes as weather.   I can do a search in the transcripts using the word "weather", and even "battle" to find any / all excerpts that would pertain to this topic.  It would be a nice supplement I think.   

They also said that even they, 6th density, still have to 'battle', although it's not in the sense that we do here in 3rd, or how it's done in 4th.  Laura asked about it, but, they didn't elaborate.   Guess we wouldn't "get" it at this juncture.   Whoosh, over our heads I guess.      So who knows.

I've also heard, and this may be in the transcripts as well, that when the big Shift happens, STO and STS DO interact for a period of time in 4th, until STO gains some strength.  Eventually, there's a complete separation of realms and zero interaction.   But immediately following the Shift, they are most definately 'blended", so to speak.   

But at any rate, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, I have to say that I definately disagree.  So far, wandering1 seems to be right on the money, pretty much.   He displays an excellent understanding of the situation at hand, a knowledge of the various material we all talk about here on the forum, and has a grasp on the STO / STS situation. 

I'll see what I can dig up in the transcripts.   Be back later......

I don't know what 4d is like.  I am suggesting possibilities.

Perhaps it is as you say.  STO and STS do not cross.  That could well be.

I imagine that my information and knowledge comes from my experiences in this life, from my past lives, from my future lives, and from my experiences between lives.

In this life, I have learned from the C and RA transcripts, perhaps as a "remembering" and I cite them as reference points. 

Really, I do appreciate the input!  Thanks for the interaction!

Not to insist that my point is the absolute correct one, but I think you are missing the point.

Your information, your knowledge, your conclusions are primarily directed by the assistance of the C and RA transcripts. So you should take note to this point because it is an important one for your development.

STO and STS do not interact above 3D density in the manner that you are contemplating. There is no "If you don't turn to our side, we will destroy you". Even at the point, 309,000 years ago, when humanity fell from "Eden/Grace" (ie. The Fall of Lucifer), we "obliged" to switch our polarities. You cannot force between polarities as the law of "Free-Will" would be abridged if one could do so. From my knowledge this Universal law is set at 5th Density, so 4D STS must play under the same rules.

You say that they are "very good points" but then you go on to say how you can "see STS trying to battle STO" and of your curiosity towards how "STO" will "respond". I think this ties in with humanities addiction towards the romantic belief of "Good vs Evil". This was a really hard concept for me to grasp, but more importantly ACCEPT, and I had much trouble on casschat because it took a while for the clarity of the C-transcripts to settle, and for the blinding effect of such knowledge to allow me to actually LEARN. STS battles with STS. This is so because of the pyramidal power-structure which is their energy-feeding-environment. STO play with STO, which is within a circular power-structure. The circle does NOT interact with the pyramid! They do not cross.

An STO being doesn't walk down the street "whistling" koombaya and see a STS being across the road staring at it while whipping his servants and slaves. 4th Density is the separation of polarities.

RA says that the "choice" made in 3rd Density (polarity) is the "axle" in which the WHEEL turns.

Very good points on the battling issue.

I can see the possibility that when you "battle" STS you become STS.  So battle may not be the right word.  I can also see STS trying to battle STO.  How will STO respond?  By meditating on peace?  Maybe.  Perhaps a more active approach is needed.  Like a thought shield of light.  So maybe STO always plays defense.  Maybe meditating on peace can create a  thought shield of light.

I think that even at the higher densities, there is a choice of switching polarities from STO to STS, for example. 

Why do you think there is no interaction between 4d STO and 4d STS? 
I can imagine that contending with STS forces is a catalyst to growth in 4d, just as it is in 3d.

Also, in Allies of Humanity, which may have some flaws but I think is a pretty good source, the 4d STO entities claimed to be "in hiding" otherwise they would be destroyed by STS forces.

Anyway, I don't want to get too far afield in the speculation zone.  Still, I think it can be helpful to imagine where we may be going so that we can better navigate where we are now.

I have heard of a scenario where most of the people who emerge into 4d will get to live in a wonderful realm of love and light and all that.  However, the 4-d Reptilians and Orion STS will be there as well.  Therefore, some of the 4d STO entities are tasked with protecting the rest from overt attack by 4d STS forces.  It may be like an ongoing "light battle".  I have even heard of the possibility that some people may be drawn to video games now in order to prepare for these light battles.

Hmm, we had this discussion before. I gave this insight about such "battles", but ermolai came into the conversation and reminded me of the separation between vibrations.

In frank terms, 4D STO and 4D STS do not interact. In 3rd density you have the interactions between STO and STS. Why? Because this is the density of "self-awareness", where you are given the short-cycle route of "choosing" what polarity you pick. Once you choose and step-up to the higher density (harvest), you are separated from the other polarity for the rest of your learning curve. Moreover, STO doesn't battle. STO doesn't do anything but go with the natural flow. If life were a game of chess, life would ONLY be STS. STO don't play games. The preparation for 4D battle via "video-games" sounds romantic, but that's about it bro.

STO candidates don't prepare for battles against externalities. They find peace within the inner-battles. They establish organization of their higher-faculties to regulate the lower ones. Most people have their emotional and intellectual centers at the top: These are lower-centers! Candidates feed the STO-dog and starve the STS-dog. They wipe out all desires (which manifest obsessions) and maintain healthy preferences.

The primary point of it all is, you can't battle STS. When you battle STS, you empower it by giving it attention. Instead you know of its presence, you validate its importance in the forumula of equillibrium, and then you say 'ciao' and go skip around the lake with Bambi and Pinnoccio.

I was at the C's session when they talked about the Nephalim, it must've really freaked me out in some part of my psyche
because a few months later I had a terrible, horrible, no good, very  bad dream about them having arrived.  They were everywhere and walking the streets like enforcers, gathering up people I think to kill them, or at least contain them.  I was with two other people and we were able to hide under an overturned couch in an abandoned house.  We were hiding there and the Nephalim were in the house, I guess trying to find us, but somehow they didn't notice us.  I remember I was holding my breath for so long trying to be quiet as I watched their big feet walk by just a foot or two away from my nose.  As you can imagine this was a very frightening part of the dream, and I then woke up.

It occurred to me later that they must not be very smart and didn't possess a good sense of smell, I would've thought they would have some kind of extra special powers of smell... I guess I think of them as more animal-like than humanoid.  But it was just a dream, so who knows... maybe they are smart, maybe they don't exist, but the C's seemed to be pretty adament that they were as real as real can be, and they're zoom-zooming our way.

I rented "The Last Samarai" earlier this week. I loved this movie even given the blood and gore, I covered my eyes, the third one too , during most of the battle scenes the second and third times I watched it, but for what I did see I was really intrigued by the use of bow and arrow.  I really want to get myself a bow and arrows now, I want to become proficient using as much. 

I had the kind of strange/funny thought out of the blue washing dishes Wed., "I wonder how tough skinned a Nephalim is?"  I gather I'm not prepared to go without a fight, if it is to be.

I've had this very thought myself.