Regarding the New Age Craze and dogma in general - I gather you are all free thinkers so I say;

Follow no one, follow no group.

You can still be a "leader" (as in someone at the front)  but if you are wise you will ask that no one follow you.

Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead.

The tone of Sue's book is very different from Cathy's.   Cathy's book comes across as unbelievable I think for many people because it's nonstop brutalization on every page with no reprieve, so much so that the reader is left shaking their head wondering how in the frickity frack anybody could possibly survive something like that, intact.   I know that's the effect it had on me.  I figured *something* happened to Cathy, because it's doubtful that somebody would or could make up such a detailed story, yet, something seems "off" about it.

In Sue's book she's supposedly been used and abused since childhood, yet her tone is more detached and mellow about it all.  She provides details, but in a detached way, and sometimes opts to not get into things, saying it makes her uncomfortable.  It discusses shocking things but in a not-shocked tone of voice.  So in that sense one could wonder if she's possibly lying, since it does seem to gloss over some things, and lacks that hard edged brutality that Cathy's book has.  Interestingly, Sue paints her abusers in a more human light.  They actually come across as real people, whereas in Cathy's book they come across like over-the-top monster caricatures.   Which ties into another major difference between both womens' stories - Cathy was programmed to just be raped raped and more raped, like a piece of meat, whereas Sue was programmed to be lovable, playful, fun, flirtaceous, and to act like she actually truly adored her abusers and enjoyed her time spent with them - thus ensuring that they had a good time too, and liked being with her; she was even sometimes acting as an interested listener and confidante when they felt like talking and divulging their personal woes.   She experienced "bonding programming" to feel like she was merged with some of her handlers, to where she didn't know where she ended and they began.  I thought that was interesting, and it's something completely lacking in Cathy's book, and it explains why Sue paints her abusers in a more human light - it's like there's still a conflict going on to kind of sympathize with them.  She does not act like she hates them or has rage or anything like that, despite what they did.  Which is believable, considering she supposedly had that bonding programming. 

Now that I've read both women's stories, I'm confused as to who's the real deal and who isn't.  Maybe they both are real, I don't know, because seriously, how could anybody make up this sort of thing.  There's so much detail in both womens' tales that it gives anybody pause.   But both women's stories, despite the same overall foundation, are drastically different in tone.   

Oh yeah....................and on an interesting side note, growing up whenever I'd see certain actors or actresses on screen, or in interviews, or read interviews by them or even just see their photos I'd get a vibe hit off of them, whether positive or negative.  There are actors/tresses/singers that I inexplicably didn't like, and felt like they were yucky people and had a bad, creepy vibe, and sure enough these were people that have later been named by these women as being prominent handlers in the business or else who just took advantage of the benefits of these slaves.   But I could always tell who was "good" and who was "icky" and it turns out I was probably right!   o_O

. . . And it turns out that as with all things mind control related, it's more of that "he-said, she-said" finger pointing back and forth accusations.  Who to believe?   I don't know.  For me, I now shy away from all these women who have come forth with their tales of being a Presidential Model Message Courier/Sex Slave, because we just can't know who's really telling the truth and who isn't, who's the real deal and who's stealing other people's stories, who's now truly "free" and who's now under the influence/control of a new handler masquerading as their rescuer.

True – hard to verify the different stories.

Just my opinion, but after looking over some of the conflicting sources, it seems to me that Mark Phillips is not the reliable source I once believed and is not what he claims to be.

I can relate to Sue’s book more than Cathy O’Brien’s.  Sue and I both grew up in the San Fernando Valley in the 1950s.  Her Woodland Hills home was about 5 miles from where I lived.

About 4 ago, after reading Sue’s book I communicated with her by letter and e-mail.  I shared with her some of my memories that had recently come into conscious awareness of receiving childhood mind control programming at a VA hospital back in the 1960s.  She was very supportive and suggested I take a more activist approach, which I declined to do.

More recently when I tried to communicate by e-mail with her she seemed different – more distant – the e-mail reply sounded kind of generic, as if somebody else was handling her e-mail for her.

According to Internet posts, she has been very active seeking justice through the court system.  Don’t know how well that will work out for her.  We have basically an illuminati-run legal system that is structured for other purposes besides achieving justice.

A PDF copy of her book is currently available thanks to thr33tim3.  There is a download link near the bottom of this page at ConspiracyResearch.org:

http://www.conspiracyresearch.org/forum … topic=4645

"When Robinson said he was almost finished writing his novel, Ford replied, "Since my experience was only inc*st, I guess I have nothing to contribute.... I want my name on the cover." Robinson replied, "If you'll do the legwork on getting the book printed and pay half the printing cost, you can add your name to the cover." "Really? My name can be on the cover of STARSHINE?", she asked."

Observe how childlike and idiotic they have made Sue Ford sound with these quotes.
"ONLY inc-st"?? What survivor of inc*stual abuse would respond like this? This is making me sick.

Sue Ford is currently a practicing EEG Neurofeedback therapist in Tennessee.
Mark and Cathy recently did some lectures in Canada which were advertised on
Davidicke.com's front page. I have the video but have not watched it yet. Did
they reveal anything new or is it another rehash of their ten year old book?

how likely is this? Sounds like False Memory Spindrome. I have read many
people's life stories and I have not begun getting confused if my memories are
actually mine or those of someone whose work I've read...

"It is more based on the life of Cathy O'Brien, who collaborated on the facts of her deprogramming for which Robinson's novel is loosely based."

this doesn't make much sense if you have actually read Brice's book, it has a
tremendous amount of substance to it and is QUITE different from Cathy O'Briens
story. The differences between the books should speak for themselves really, you
would not confuse Brice's story with Cathy's if you actually read them, they involve completely different
people as well.

"Phillips wrote, "she either is deliberately perpetrating fraud or is indeed the victim of false memories from her therapists.""

Here we see Mark Phillips talking about therapists implanting false memories of
abuse! This is a tactic used by the False Memory Syndrome Foundation to
discredit ALL therapeutic work in this field. In this case, Mark Phillips can
use the tactic to descredit everyone's work besides HIS OWN, that is, Cathy.

As for the first article dismissing Sue Ford, I find the argument weak. Some
statements struck me as suspicious.

I keep trying to post a response here and it is saying Precondition Failed when I hit Submit... am I formatting something incorrectly? As it is I'm going to break this post into a couple small posts and maybe that will work..?

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Let's turn now to some of the most compelling information about Mark Phillips, here from a woman who was a MKULTRA victim, and presidential sex toy and personal computer. Brice Taylor was a sex slave to Bob Hope, Henry Kissinger, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Nelson Rockefeller, Gerald Ford, and on and on.

Brice lived for a time with Mark and Cathy, supporting all of them, and eventually she was able to publish her book, Thanks For The Memories-The Truth Has Set Me Free, published in 1999, by Brice Taylor Trust, P.O. Box 655, Landrum, South Carolina 29356. Here are some very telling excerpts from her book: [Quoting from pages 268 and 269]

A breakthrough occurred. Ted Gunderson called to inform me that he had just heard from another woman [Cathy O'Brien] who lived across the nation, who had also sent him her memory work about being used as a sex slave to Ronald Reagan. Although it was a terrifying time for me, it also was an amazing time of discovery for all of us. Mark Phillips, her so-called therapist and deprogrammer, flew across the nation and told me that "Jimmy Carter's people" had called him in an attempt to stop him from meeting with me. I flew Mark and Cathy O'Brien to California to meet with me for the first time and I put on a seminar where they were the featured speakers. Mark Phillips knew all about my programming. Looking back on it now, he seemed to know way too much. He asked me if I had "a twin sister who was two inches shorter than me." This was a very powerful key and code into the programming of my "inner twin sister," Sharon, and this seemingly simple statement controlled my body in a very intimate way from the outside, showing me while in normal consciousness that I was indeed a robot, and not in control of my own body. Shortly after Mark and Cathy's arrival and seminar, a series of events occurred including an accident and ensuing hospitalization of the person that was living with me as my safe person. Mark Phillips explained that I was not safe in California and once again I ended up running. I paid to fly Mark, Cathy and I back to his mother's home in Charlotte, Tennessee where we began my process of what we then called "deprogramming."

Several weeks later, with nearly 10 years of recovery behind me, this so-called "retired?!" C.I.A. operative made dramatic changes in his living arrangements just to "help me deprogram." After relocating across the country to a home in Arab, Alabama, where I paid all domestic expenses for the three of us, a large sum of money for traveling expenses for both he, his girlfriend Cathy, and myself, and a large 'consulting fee,' this renegade C.I.A. operative read my lengthy journal entries daily for a year and a half and agreed that in his own words, "the memory work contains absolute elements of fact laced with verifiable details." But one and one-half years, forty-two journals, and $50,000+ traveling and living expenses later, Mark Phillips informed me that nothing had ever happened to me & nothing what-so-ever!

Cathy O'Brien said, "Well, you should be happy that nothing happened and that your children have not been abused!" I couldn't believe she was saying that, after all the common details of our histories we had shared.

I was devastated and went to bed and could not eat for three days and remained non-communicative and totally subdued for nearly a month afterwards. After all this time of intensely focused attention on my history, Mark informed me that I had never even been abused, and that I just had a big imagination. But, he seemed to appreciate that I was around to cover all of his expenses.

I suspect that Mark is some kind of "containment agent" who is being directed through his "handlers" whose motivations ultimately serve the New World Order. Through his containment expertise, the information I have conveyed to you in this book you are now reading was delayed in reaching you by nearly seven years & I have uncovered a string of lies he told others in an attempt to discredit me. I also reconnected with another Kissinger survivor that Mark Phillips had worked with for a time. Mark Phillips told her the same thing he told me-'THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO YOU!" & I left that home where I had paid all expenses & and went to live in Carbondale, Illinois. [End quoting]  http://www.rense.com/general2/phil.htm

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Oh, the confusion.     He said, she said.  Who's lying and who's telling the truth?  Guess we'll never know.

The only thing I question - of course - is the Brice Taylor/Sue Ford book you're quoting here.  During my mind control research months back I looked into this book because it was being mentioned so prominantly in mind control research circles and amongst victims who were reading the book and being swept up in it.  Swinging over to Amazon.com, I found this REALLY interesting review outlinging the behind the scenes conspiracy involving the making of this book.  I'd heard of Brice Taylor prior to my research of course, but wasn't aware that there could be any fraud happening.   And it turns out that as with all things mind control related, it's more of that "he-said, she-said" finger pointing back and forth accusations.  Who to believe?   I don't know.  For me, I now shy away from all these women who have come forth with their tales of being a Presidential Model Message Courier/Sex Slave, because we just can't know who's really telling the truth and who isn't, who's the real deal and who's stealing other people's stories, who's now truly "free" and who's now under the influence/control of a new handler masquerading as their rescuer.  Here's the review I found which offers up some potential reasons to question this book, from "John D. Lee 2":

_____

"Brice Taylor's actual name is Sue Ford, a Beverly Hills debutant, and victim of incest and perhaps Multiple Personality Disorder, now named Dissociative Identity Disorder in DSM-IV. Ford got her degree in psychology before she "recovered" her memories, and perhaps was falsely influenced by reading other people's life stories. According to Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips, in their 2004 book "Access Denied for Reasons of National Security", Ford stole the fictionalized novel from her "ex-roommate" and its ghost writer, Rod Robinson (also a victim of incest and perhaps DID/MPD. Robinson told O'Brien, "I am an author writing a FICTIONAL book on mind control that incorporates much of the information Sue was able to obtain THROUGH HER THERAPIST," (NOT from Sue herself). This book was never about Sue Ford, aka "Brice Taylor". It is more based on the life of Cathy O'Brien, who collaborated on the facts of her deprogramming for which Robinson's novel is loosely based. Ford paid Phillips $500/month rent in return for living with him and O'Brien and Phillip's brain-damaged mother, but Ford claims to have paid Phillips $75,000. After reading Ford's so-called notes of her memories, Phillips wrote, "she either is deliberately perpetrating fraud or is indeed the victim of false memories from her therapists." O'Brien's daughter is also named Kelly, who was kidnapped into a Satanic cult run by the state of Tennessee, and a Nazi electroshock hospital run by Vanderbilt University, and scheduled for a court-ordered "exorcism by Satanists" (oxymoron). "Laws do not apply for reasons of national security", according to Judge Andrew Shookhoff, ignoring the Tennessee legislature's new law in O'Brien's daughter's name. When Robinson said he was almost finished writing his novel, Ford replied, "Since my experience was only incest, I guess I have nothing to contribute.... I want my name on the cover." Robinson replied, "If you'll do the legwork on getting the book printed and pay half the printing cost, you can add your name to the cover." "Really? My name can be on the cover of STARSHINE?", she asked. Robinson replied, "Right after mine. You've got the manuscript right there. When you solidify the deal the deal to have it printed, I'll wire you half the money." O'Brien asked her why she wanted to use an alias on the book, wondering why a person with DID would want a new identity. "For legal reasons," Ford replied. "It never occurred to me, Mark or Rod that Sue would eventually remove Rod's name from his book entirely, ironically change the title to "Thanks for the Memories", and keep all the sales profits," O'Brien wrote. "She plans to release Rod's fiction book as her reality, so she can use mind control as a defense to any crime. We asked her to leave immediately." So "Brice Taylor's" book is useful, at least for general background on CIA' MKULTRA, and background on O'Brien's first book, "Trance Formation of America".  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/custom … p;n=283155
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I think the review is fair in that he acknowledges that the book is at least useful for background into the workings of the MK Ultra program.  He's not just outright slamming the entire idea of what she's talking about, as some other reviewers did who mock the idea of mind control slaves and conspiracy.  So, just something to consider.   Things aren't always what they seem to be.  Would be curious though to see if I can find anybody else who verifies what this guy is saying.

I can't remember the title of the book though.

In gnostic texts, lucifer the Serpent is the good guy and Yahve the creator is a bad guy, the one who didn't want us to learn from the tree of knowledge. I think this kind of thinking is flawed at the root, but it's only an opinion. I think Henry likes to make christian fondamentalists mad at gnosticism. Fundamentalists will say: look Henry kissinger loves luciferian gnostic teachings! This is the new age world religion conspiracy of the new world order!

Actually, Kissinger does'nt even have to be there physically in a conference on gnosticism to listen to it (!). I think he went there just to be photographed. This will then be considered as 'evidence' by christian fundamentalists that gnostic texts are 'evil' and luciferic.

What do you think?