I think it goes without saying that the 'eighth sphere' is what we refer to as 'food for the moon'. The article on montalk website on 'food for the moon' is much better than what Cs and LKJ have to say about it.

I also what to point out that by visionary I meant those visionaries who receive visions, about the future or whatever, mediumistic faculties (involving trance or not), etc.  According to Steiner, these are pathological phenomena of the human psyche. He stressed that we should develop ourselves and our understanding of the spiritual world  through thinking and gradually through sense free thinking (thinking about thinking) without relying on these atavistic faculties. Often people who have these inborn faculties or have awakened them, when the start to develop logical thinking, lose this 'power' they had and get frustrated againt reason and logical thinking. Yes we have to obtain Imaginations of the spiritual but not through a REGRESSION in past stages of human evolution (visionary and mediumistic faculties are atavistic and thus belong to a past stage of human evolution, that Steiner call ancient Moon. these moon forces taking us back into ancient clairvoyance were neutralized by a densification of the moon by Yahve, or so says Steiner). We must re-enliven thinking but not by falling back in regresion through hypnosis or mediumistic or spiritist seances, but really but using our minds and train it to thinking logically in order that the Self can become conscious of itself more and more. With logical thinking many fundamental erors can be avoided and they must be if we really want to gain access to a valid understanding of spiritual worlds. We must form Imaginations, spiritual concepts, no longer intellectual abstract concepts. Visions come to us from our subconscious and we all know how entities are bent to trick upon us, especially when we are as vulnerable as we are when our consiousness level is lowered (through hypnosis, suggestions are easy to imprint in the subconscious mind). Visions impose themselves upon us from out of consciousness and are symptoms of pathology. In the past, visionary clairvoyance was highly common, shared by all humans, but we were not very smart nor intellectualistic as today. We weren't individualized as we are today. Gods gave us thoughs, they we thinking in us, we only could remember it by ourselves. Today, visionary clairvoyance is an atavistic phenomenon and has been hijacked by demons and vicious elemental beings (some created by our own mind, for example by immoral thoughts, materialistic spiritual imaginations, and so on) and play with our minds as easily and effectively as Hollywood makes movies that can be very realistic but at best can only be simulacra of reality. I think there are similar forces at work in the triumph of cinema and the forces behind the eight sphere, which mimics reality in a way that it is hardly feasible to distinguish between what is real and what is not (for example, in hypnotic regressions, sometimes people think they are re-experiencing a trauma coming from one of their past lives; the experience is hugely realistic, more often than that highly traumatic, practically like 'a movie of which you are the hero'. This often brings relief to the patient who has just found 'the source of his/her suffering'. But this is grossly misleading 'cause it may be demons who influenced her in order that her mind caught memories of someone's harshly painful suffering in the past in the Akasha, through unconscious atavistic clairvoyance.

I think many memory screens of alien abduction have to do with such manipulations originating from beings from the eighth sphere. The stuff of the eighth sphere itself is like electromagnetic substance endowed with consciousness and materiality. This is spectral matter. This spectral world is put between ourselves and the spiritual world so that the first thing people see when they revert back into atavistic clairvoyance is not the spiritual world but a simulacra of it, the eighth sphere. This eight sphere is made up artifically by Lucifer (DEvil) and Ahriman (Satan) (the two main aspects of Evil, the Seducer and the Destroyer) in order to take human soul in prison, to transmute earthly and brain substance into eighth sphere substance, to trasmute the willpower of our individuality into atavistic clairvoyance. Thus the person can become a medium when his/her ego has escaped from the brain, thus enabling elementals (informed by moon Adepts, ancient teachers of humanity) to teach through the medium. More often than that, it is spiritual materialism that is divulged this way, a more cunning way to divert our spiritual quest than the crude materialism of (ahrimanic) rationalists.

In short, I would say that we have to gather wisdom and knowledge from a clear day-light knowledge. If the level of consciousness is lowered, the mind becomes vulnerable to attack because he does not enter the higher supernatural world but the lower subnatural realm. There creeps many graciously fallen angels and messengers of deception as well as omniscient all-knowing elementals who can even pose as '6D STO'... I'm not shure about this, but it is a train of thought I have been following for a while.

druid wrote:

(visionary = atavistic clairvoyance=eighth sphere)

I'm picking up on the whole mysticism, theosophist eigth sphere concept very slowly, but I think this relationship you showed here is not that simple. 'Visionary' begins with individual perceptions and associations made on a personal level. I agree that psychedelics are not a means of acquiring experience in a general sort of sense, but visionary trips do not imply clairvoyance. Of course, there are atavistic properties of a trip, but how anyone can manifest clairvoyant abilities while tripping - especially if anyone believes that clairvoyance comes to them only when tripping - that is merely speculation on their part. I recommend psychedelic drugs for every bit that they are worth, but I know they are not worth their weight in the arena of clairvoyance. Only someone under the influence of psychedelics will proclaim their psychic abilities, but a day later, possibly after some rest, they feel just as blind in the third eye as many of us feel we are.

Alright, now, I don't know a damn thing about the Eighth Sphere but I intend to find out. Google taskbar, show me the way.

"Blinded by self-importance....the visionaries of society haven't the vision of a blind musician nor the perception of a churchmouse_"
~~carefulcarpenter

May I ask that you be more specific?  What meme's?  Who's parroting them?  Why are they meme's?

It's probably just me but your posts never seem to be geared to help anyone.  They all seem like you are either sitting on a cloud looking down at the rest of us or you are afraid to tell someone straight up that you think they are spouting meme's.  We are all adults here.  We sure won't get anywhere with innuendo.

I mean start with me if you want.  What meme's am I parroting?  Explain specifically why they are meme's and what the correct perspective is.  Please, I ask you, step on the court and play instead of throwing balls at the players from the stands.

Just a request.

(visionary = atavistic clairvoyance=eighth sphere)

I'm picking up on the whole mysticism, theosophist eigth sphere concept very slowly, but I think this relationship you showed here is not that simple. 'Visionary' begins with individual perceptions and associations made on a personal level. I agree that psychedelics are not a means of acquiring experience in a general sort of sense, but visionary trips do not imply clairvoyance. Of course, there are atavistic properties of a trip, but how anyone can manifest clairvoyant abilities while tripping - especially if anyone believes that clairvoyance comes to them only when tripping - that is merely speculation on their part. I recommend psychedelic drugs for every bit that they are worth, but I know they are not worth their weight in the arena of clairvoyance. Only someone under the influence of psychedelics will proclaim their psychic abilities, but a day later, possibly after some rest, they feel just as blind in the third eye as many of us feel we are.

Alright, now, I don't know a damn thing about the Eighth Sphere but I intend to find out. Google taskbar, show me the way.

I think one must not base knowldge on visions, hallucinations, mediums or anything like it because then knowledge is flawed by distortions coming from the eighth sphere.

Percept + concept = knowledge.
if another concept takes the place of the percept, we reflect upon a conpcet and tend towards sense free knowledge. But if the percept is an hallucination a vision of a mediumistic inspiration, I think there is a short-circuit in the construction of knowledge. Visionary exprience mimics real experience but isn't real: it's like a cinema in our heads. i suspedt here the infleunces of 4DSTS. Likewise in drugs = the artifical experience it brings is of the same hallucinatory substance that makes up the eightb sphere. Be careful not to fall into believing your own hallucinations, visions, etc., because one then gets trapped into the eighth sphere. I know it sounds paranoid to talk so much abou the dangers of the eight  sphere, atavistic clairvoyance an drug taking, but I think it is justified. there is not a lot of people who really know the impicarions of the eighth sphere so I think it is needed.

What do you think?

It's just that I feel that there are some areas which I can believe in (UFOs etc) but I feel these areas are just  a diversion. I find the whole 'shift' process is about spiritual awakening and UFOs are for those who aren't making the choice to move into the higher vibrations.
I get confused when I see some people on here talking about 4D as if it were the aim. 4D is the veil! -4D is the one we have to escape. 
I also think there are misconceptions with the 'matrix within a matrix' concept, ie that 5D is still the matrix. Well it is, but only in that we came from 5D, and volunteered (one way or another) to come back to 3D to bust the 3D/4D system. There have to be controls preventing us from moving into 6D, that is why each realm/ dimension has at least 7 levels, which we have to graduate through. What I don't/can't know is, was I /am I a 5D level 7 initiate or still 5D level one?
All imho , of course.
I still have the Christ as my centre. I can't help that.. about 17 years ago I hit absolute rock bottom and was about to end it all , when Christ appeared to me and came into (and saved) my life. When I meditate he often comes there (I can tell,when my heart glows warm) and speaks to me. So Christ isnt about 3D/4D programming to me, he is as real as any other person in my life. (Although I take on board that his teachings and ideologies have been badly corrupted by the church)

I am as confused as sh*t with all the symbols, squares, tetrahydrons etc, I just read it and 'whoosh' it goes right over my head.. I just don't think I'm ready for that yet.

Me and my missus also get the 'energy vampires' thing- we both got hit again on Sunday during the supermarket run, and we could both see the two people who were doing it. (Not vampires, but people who were just stood, staring at the back of peoples heads, we only noticed after we had been 'drained').

I never used to understand about 'Reality is an Illusion', but I have gretaer awareness and understanding since following the topics on here. I also believe that we are all connected.

Point taken Druid, there's a whole load of common sense in what you wrote there. I do realise the need to progress spiritually and learn as I go along, but ...

like the people who share drug experiences, I've never done drugs, I dont have a problem with people who experiment, but I DO like to learn from their experiences/mistakes, and I don't believe it is nescessary to physically/ physcically experience all things, if you can learn from others. Its like the concept of the planets consciousness rising after a critical mass of people have achieved awareness. (The 100th monkey effect) (Awareness being the buzz word that is constantly going round in my head recently).  And thats why I love this place, so many shared experiences.

Here’s my 2 cents – a concensus would be great, but why rely on that at all ? (Actually I think it’s kinda fun in a way too). But Why not come into Contact with the whole picture for yourself (perhaps you’re just comparing ?

Starcat – whether thought forms are ours or from outside of us – the fact still remains that we’ve picked up on them. I think humanity shares a field of consciousness - it's easy to see how we could be sharing in this way ... For me, it’s a matter of seeing the truth of what’s behind that thought/feeling – the motivation (if any) for it – the deeper root, to see where it stems from. And it’s done in an instant – no time – this way of being in contact with what may surround you and what may stem from within yourself, regardless of what you’re doing, your action is integrative,

That is,

If you truly see the truth behind your thoughts and feelings – see them for what they are – you can always act in a way where there’s no choice involved: the next step is always clear and thus taken. It correlates with having “choiceless awareness”  I think. You don’t direct your attention – attention encompasses the whole – meaning all the details are seen clearly as well.

This is about daily living…and there’s so much more to the whole original story – and everyone’s got (potential) for his/her own …

Concerning trance channeling and even 'conscious' channeling like C's, I strongly sense that there are manipulations by certain entities. Truth can be revealed through this medium but the whole process of mediumnism is a substance transferance into the eighth sphere (some say the moon). Likewise for hypnotism, semi-hypnotism, and many dream stuff. The key is: does your knowledge is based on real experience (confrontation of concept with percept gives knowledge) or is it based on fallacies like on visions, hallucinations of communications with some unknowable entities telling you what to think? As for illuminati insiders, I think they like to divert our research a lot. I don't think an ex-illuminati can talk because they just can't go out of this mess they are locked into. A 3DSTS illuminati bordering on 4D STS experience can't turn back so easily and reveal anything. If he reveals anything, he's probably manipulated imself.

Concerning New age stuff, one must exert discernment and toss away the bad seeds. But how can we recognize it if we haven't progressed toward higher densities/levels of consciousness? We have to be on a cetain level of spiritual development to recognize illusions and disinfo. For example, Steiner talkd aboutthe fact that the first thing one sees when he evolves into perception of the spiritual is not the spiritual, but eighth sphere stuff! Then one must be very careful because illusions arise when one starts occult development. My own vanity and illusions can come to me in the form of a sublime light-being telling me I have a special spiritual mission and that I am so evolved spiritually, and blablabla.

I had this idea of the people of NR putting together all the peices of the jigsaw and putting to one side the disinformative? peices, so maybe we can begin to see the big picture forming.

The Sage thinker knows that thoughts entering his mind are not necessarily his own.
Its the ego that seeks to maintain its singular and illusional elite status.
Thoughtforms do not originate in 3d.
There are some very clever memes that have been inserted in this reality by  trance channel that people have adopted as if handed down on tablets of stone.

I agree with this.

Healthy scepticism shouldn't be seen as a negative thing but a necessary part of the process of discerning truth.

Any example's of what new age meme's and thoughtforms would classify?  I know when I am describing a thought, I'll use terms that I really don't understand, like "the Matrix", "being One with All" and many others.  I haven't actually seen the Matrix in its entirety, and I haven't felt that I was One with All before.  For me they are symbols.  Maybe a better first hand description would be best, instead of the recycled terms.

One description cannot constitute as "The" Truth.  In my opinion, Truth cannot be told, but maybe only felt within?  I myself like to futher my vocabulary as to not "trap" myself in my own writtings with "this is the only Truth" and so on.  When I write, it's an exploration of my mind, and an attempt to push the boundries of thought limitations.

So I think that watching as meme's and ego thoughtforms pop up is definately helpful.