Have you tried any part of the plant yet?

Mehh?? Oh well no I never have. Don't think I would really take something like that.

About twleve hours. Yea they said he did talk about some of the things in the book in the moment after Duncan asked him. Duncan said Mike 'lost' the book shortly after being interrupted by Dunc and spent a few minutes on the floor looking for the book.

I don't know but I wouldn't imagine so if he would be taking Datura.

Recently Duncan introduced me to his friend after telling me of the guys first Datura trip. I met Mike late last night and discussed it with him because of the nature of what he saw.

He took about 30 seeds and had apparently began to easily disassociate while sitting on the couch with Dunc. What he did was pick up a (non-existant) book from off of the coffee table and proceed to read it very enthusiastically for about 20-25 minutes straight. Finally Dunc decides to intervene and ask Mike what he was doing and Mike looks up and tell him, "This is the Book of Contracts. It lists all the contracts I made with God before I came here."

Holy WoW!!  Is Mike particularly religious? (my guess is that he isn't overly so)  Did he remember any of the details... like what some of the contracts were or what it actually said in the book?  How long did it take for him to 'come back to normal'?

I'd only read about Datura from the Castaneda books, and that was enough to deter me from seeking its council, so to speak.  Have you tried any part of the plant yet?

He took about 30 seeds and had apparently began to easily disassociate while sitting on the couch with Dunc. What he did was pick up a (non-existant) book from off of the coffee table and proceed to read it very enthusiastically for about 20-25 minutes straight. Finally Dunc decides to intervene and ask Mike what he was doing and Mike looks up and tell him, "This is the Book of Contracts. It lists all the contracts I made with God before I came here."

You guys should really read some Don Juan stuff.  Carlos Castaneda wrote some books about him and his experiences with Datura and some other ethnogens.  Very worthwile.

The Carlos Castaneda books are a good read, but they are works of fiction, and the plant references should not be taken as factual.

I had Datura on a few occasions, sometimes smoking the seeds with weed, others high doses of scopolamine based pharmiceuticals, and the last time in combination with some mushrooms. The last trip was very heavy, an epic battling with demons one. At the end my guides told me that I was NEVER to take Datura ever again. So I wouldn't want to take it again, and I can't recommend it.

Most people I know who've taken it said that at low doses it gives a relaxed floating feeling, but higher doses are dangerous as they frequently involve being chased and harrassed by people no one else can see. Delerium inducing trips very frequently involve the police and hospitalisation. Datura is also used extensively as a drug to incapacitate kidnapped hostages and victims of human sacrifice, so as a drug it has a very dark energy.

The flowers smell nice, and it's a beautiful looking plant, but it's not something I'd want to have around. Dog's or children might eat the flowers so it's not a very safe plant species.

Some things discussed lightly are the progressive levels one should ingest the plant.  The root, the stem, the leaves, and then the seeds.  All corresponding to greater intensities, and deeper experiences, but all the while preparing you for the next level.

I feel as though we are re-discovering what many shaman before us already knew. 

I am looking to find a new home in this world for modern day shaman, and if anyone is interested, please get in contact with me.

Minister Jester
-----------------
Church of Fools
foolstheory
IFCOL Enterprises

Smoking it is definitely way mellower, and in fact, years before I grew the plant, we used to smoke dature mixed with herb occasionally, and always enjoyed it.  Drinking it is another matter though. 

By far the best description of the experience is a waking dream.  The hallucinations (and I use the term literally) are the nature of dream hallucinations, i.e, you'll be talking to someone and they turn into someone else without you even noticing, random things appearing and dissolving etc.

The difference between an out-of-control experience and a more useful one is precisely the difference between a lucid and a regular dream.  For instance, one night my friend and I ingested similar amounts, and had many shared hallucinations, such as a threeway conversation with a friend of ours who wasn't there.  The main difference is that I was aware that I was tripping, and I my was just dreaming.  He would seem totally sober too, until he started saying wacky shit like "that monkey on your shoulder is really annoying," or asking us the next morning "who were those goth chicks that were here last night?" (my other friend didn't help his confusion by saying "you don't remember?  You invited them.")  The funniest scene was 24 hours later when he asked me to take him his work to pick up his check.  I thought he was back to normal, but found out through coworkers that he had sat down at an empty table and had a 30 minute conversation with his sister (who wasn't there).  Luckily his boss was cool, and merely commented "that boy is really trippin".

I had another friend run out the door and dissappear.  She ended up being walked home (with no pants) by a policeman, but she acted crazy enough that her neighbor was able to convince the cop that she was crazy and forgot her medication (she kept talking to the wall on the walk home, and making fun of the policeman).

The thing that makes it so dangerous is the unpredictability.  A group of people can all take the same amount, and some will be off on journeys, and others will barely feel anything.  If that person who had the amazing trip were to take the same amount later, it might do nothing, or be twice as intense as the first time.  What makes this even scarier is the the effective/lethal dose ratio is only about 1/10, so it is very very easy to kill yourself.

btw, NOTHING like dissociatives like K or ether.  It really is almost exactly like a dream at higher doses.  I think it somehow opens the doors to dreamspace in waking life.  If you've ever had a dream with your eyes open, you know that weird things can happen when the two worlds overlap.

Does give great stories though, and I could fill pages with hilarious things those two (the only ones to be completely lost in the dream) were doing, but I don't want to encourage anyone to do it.  If you don't respect it, it will kill you.

Dunno if it happens to those who have _never_ smoked but, from what I'm reading, it happens to those who had already quit smoking for longer than six months.

It might seem taking enough of this drug (i.e. achieving 'delerium') would possibly be opening ones body to being 'possesed' by other spirits - one poster described the sensation of the 'hallucinations' as being distractions while demons stretched his conciousness as if it were putty - another described it as feeling like selling your soul to the devil . . . maybe there's a real reason why it has been called the 'devils weed' . . . people walking around doing insane, nonsensical tasks and speaking gibberish . . . it is said that the effect will actually make you go 'crazy' for a stint . . .

Barefoot Doc wrote:

Some friends and i tried it many moons ago from a home grown plants

Which part of the plant and what method of ingestion? And how much?

Barefoot Doc wrote:

very unpleasent delerium

Please feel free to elaborate on the nature of the delerium.

Barefoot Doc wrote:

and that dammed halucination we were holding cigarettes.

wow you too huh? Did you even smoke cigarettes or have you ever? Why the hell does it make everybody think they're smoking cigarettes!? I just read an account of a guy who was told he kept taking his lighter out of his pocket and trying to hit it like it was a pipe! :?

It was about 20 years ago from what i remember we smoked and made a tea out of the leaves and i think we all smoked roll ups at the time, i know i did which may tie in with holding the cigarettes thing i wonder if that happens to people who dont smoke?

Delerium i felt would be similar to the halucinations and delerium one has when in fever, no heightened awareness or the magical feel of a shroom or salvia trip with connections to higher realms/selves but more a dreamy dissasociation with nightmarish and unpleasent delusions that had a sleeping dream quality of "realness" about them where salvia and shrooms effects feel more real than real if you know what i mean.

Some friends and i tried it many moons ago from a home grown plants

Which part of the plant and what method of ingestion? And how much?

Please feel free to elaborate on the nature of the delerium.

wow you too huh? Did you even smoke cigarettes or have you ever? Why the hell does it make everybody think they're smoking cigarettes!? I just read an account of a guy who was told he kept taking his lighter out of his pocket and trying to hit it like it was a pipe! :?

Appearently people can "see-through" things right in front of them, and often get hit by cars because they can't see the road, or the cars!

Yes, and that effect of seeing through things seems to be pretty much universal in that many or even most of the experiences (that I've read at least) have included it.

Yes and I would reiterate this for anyone who would be seriously considering it - you MUST first test the waters. DO NOT go jumping off head first by taking anything even comparible to most of those posts at erowid unless you simply have a death wish. Datura is widely known to be poisonous and there are claims that it can kill you if you take too much of it.

Would you care to expunge on this curse claim? It IS called the 'devils weed'. Did you mean because the majority of what you'd heard were bad experiences?

Right and again I propose this deleriant classification to be somewhat misleading in that it would seem to me that the purpose of a person ingesting Datura would certainly not be to experience it while in body. That, similar to Salvia, it will serve as an exit route or catapult if you will for the purpose of initiating a spirit journey of some sort. But I have yet to read any account of anyone staying out of body (and not moving their body) for the entire time of the 'trip'. Although the conciousness leaving the body does seem to be what is described by many while they are still connected to it and somewhat animate.

There are many accounts of talking to animals (or percieving oneself talking to animals) which would seem to point to some elemental connection with the 'spirit' of the Datura plant or animals or both. Here is another I just had to share. A kangaroo in the guys house had a conversation with him about the nature of Datura. Although the person did seem to go 'a bit crazy' (have a negative experience) immediately after the conversation.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=22429

To clarify, when the kangaroo says "the loco is a university", he is referring to the Datura plant (or human ingestion thereof) since it is referred to as 'loco weed' in that region.

One thing that I find truly fascinating is the _perfectly_ matching accounts of experiences by many users. They all seem to have this same experience whether they smoke cigarettes at the time in their lives or not:

1) [loose touch with 'reality']

2) recieve visitation by friends or aquaintances resulting in a fun atmosphere/party exchange

3) realize that, while smoking thier cigarette, they have dropped the cig onto the ground or floor

4) make an attempt to retrieve cigarette from floor/ground [thereby momentarily taking their attention away from their friends/party]

5) look up to immediately percieve all their friends and the entire party atmosphere to have vanished

I have read _several_ accounts of people who experienced this exact phenomenon in only slight variations.

As one trip report said, "Datura makes LSD look like a cup of coffee."  I think what makes it so dangerous is the fact that the person will dissassociate and walk around instead of just lying down and having visions.

Exactly. And I think that is the precice reason why it is even classified as a deleriant because of the effects of people trying to experience it while still in their bodies. I would suggest it to be classified as a 'dissassociative' similar to Salvia Divinorum in that it is intended solely to remove ones conciousness from the body.

And apparently ingesting the smoke will generally produce a lesser effect than eating the seeds or drinking the tea though this is not for certain.

Here is one semi-positive experience.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=44291

This one would seem to have effectively cured himself of manic depressive psychosis by ingesting Datura seeds.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=44835

One particularly brave individual decided to mix Datura with Morning Glory, Mushrooms and Peyote in a blender before also smoking Salvia. Part of his experience included this: