"Freedom is manifest in those transient moments in spacetime enriched in the energy of known and appreciated passion. No valid quest is enlightened fully without individuated passion."
~~carefulcarpenter

"Warriors are self-revealed not for the glory of the victory, but in the passion for the quest."
~~carefulcarpenter

; and controling response implies the opposite of emotional freedom in a sense.

If the control is merely the exercising of the responsibility that comes with that freedom, then I guess there is no contradiction. The point of responsibility is to maximize freedom in the long run. We know of cases where a sudden unbridled emotional outburst leads to regrettable consequences that end up reducing freedom. The control of response may not be strictly whether or not to respond, but how to respond. Maybe emotions must be expressed and released regardless, but one can control how it does so and thereby simultaneously express and preserve emotional freedom.

Even on this forum, you are not responsible for how others respond, but you are indeed responsible for how you respond. And if your response plays a part in the outcome, than in a way you can control the outcome even if you cannot control the others. Now realistically I know this is not true all the time, especially when the outcome is either dictated by higher necessity or orchestrated by forces with the intention and capability of creating check mate / catch-22 situations. Those are exceptions, but still no excuse for irresponsibility.

As for EFT, I attended a demonstration back in 2002 of how it's done, and later read a book by Beverly Nadler called Vibrational Harmony that incorporates some of this. I think the technique in itself is somewhat similar in effect to Robert Bruce's Core Image Removal in that it tackles emotional charge clusters lodged in the subtle body that fester beneath the conscious threshold. It has its use, but with anything the problem comes with limiting oneself entirely to its paradigm, becoming closed off to expansion in other areas of awareness. Also, something that tackles only the energy does not necessarily extract the necessary knowledge/understanding/lessons that may accompany it, so there is potential for someone to use such techniques to regularly alleviate the symptoms dysfunction, denial, or naivete without resolving those causes.

"You control your response and therein lies your freedom."

This quote has meaning for me in some aspects; in others ways it implies controling emotions which I find dangerous to the mental well-being of the individual and society; and controling response implies the opposite of emotional freedom in a sense.  (no disrespect to Montalk, here)

Any comments?

Thanks Tit!!

This subject has been the theme of my life lately and I spend probably waaaaay too much time thinking about it.

I want to add to the discussion that I'm saddened to feel the need to pull away from a group of really terrific caring folks - I'm speaking now of that new agey forum I mentioned earlier.  When one is in need or pain they close a circle of love and healing to support them.  I love that about the group.

Where we part ways is in the area of commitment to health.

And it is a bit cultish in that the site owner is slavishly supported even during times her emotions get the better of her.  Any honest criticism of any member held in high regard is seen as betrayal.

Yikes!!

I too, had to pull away from a group that I found wonderful support and cyber-friendship. I haven't posted there, or even read threads, since last january. The synchronicity of your reference of Don Juan is remarkable. Just yesterday a friend from that board emailed me to ask what i was up to. He refered to me as his Don Juan--as he called me a yaqui mystic a year ago. He is now writing a book on spiritual beliefs. I helped him along his path at a time after his mother died. On the board we would do creative dialog in poetic format. Others joined in and we had a great bit of fun. Many on the board had been offended a year earlier when I posted "peace and love" original poetry and original philosophic aphorisms on the site. It is a  site  owned by a celebrity and i was repremanded by many for speaking in words that some deemed offensive. I was later banned after a three month poetry project which had acummulatively predicted the death of a famous comedian: Bob Hope. I called the series "The Road to Santa Cruz". In it I wove in the characters of the board and created a fun play. Not everyone understood what the bigger picture was and I think I scared many people. I did not intend to do more than to document my spiritual journey with poetry. My writing did not seem to offend everyone, yet it only took a small group of complainers to get a person banned. Usually the offended ones would complain to the moderator or start a fight and blame the victim--after the victim could no longer defend themselves. Common practice on many sites, I'm sure.

Those who seemed not to understand the humor and creative aspects were aparently offended by the original work that flowed out onto the board. After my banning and "tar and feathering" I became much more aware of the "cult" dynamics that exist on many boards.  This friend recognized over a year later, when I rejoined under "titmouse_" , that I had originally come for purposes of expanding the awareness of other posters.  My friend took the lead and we went back into creative fun and sponteneity.  We had great fun and others joined in. I am not sure if the "cult" had much power by that time and I was not banned again. In order to effectively ban me the celebrity wiped out the entire site. She responded to an email after an in-person request after a concert to return to the community. In later comments on the board she justified her decisions with untruths. In the case of a celebrity it would be fruitless to even try to defend one's rights to speak on their board.  A famous voice who speaks for individual expression and artistic freedoms was not so charitable with a poet that she found offensive. I believe what she found offensive was the truth in my philosophies that challenged the paradigms or her fan base.  Her fans are generally those who seek security in the protection of a group lead by a dictator of sorts. As an independent and free soul I represented a example of thought that brought to light the responsibility of self accountability.

"Small fish swim in schools; the great white shark swims alone"

I understand how uncomfortable some people are when you speak from a truthful perspective. I never intend to do more than grow. My friend has winessed  the phenomena that I drew from, and found my spirit to be honest and loving. He now is writing a book about spirituality, whereas I continue to  research my own inner world. I plan to write a childrens book relating some of the miraculous events and insights I have gained. I take some heat at the local coffee emporium where we daily talk philosophy and spirituality. Haven't been kicked out yet, so my pursuit of truth continues. i plan to end it this month, although I will continue to journal my life experiences for my benefit. If I am truely a yaqui mystic I will gladly share my experience later in other books.

For example: yesterday I had about 5-6 rather interesting psychic events and have talked about them today with others. I predicted synchronicity a few times during my journey and have documented numerous examples on message boards.  I wouldn't think that spiritual people would be offended by truths and empirical evidence. I do think that the "powers that be" are nervous about maintaining the hierachal structure based on material accumulation.   

"Change is neither good nor detrimental to thinking people; it is what drives us to growth and transcendence, and therefore we are eventually pressed into awareness, voluntarily or not. This is the dynamic quality which creates the static certainty of things."
~~carefulcarpenter

This subject has been the theme of my life lately and I spend probably waaaaay too much time thinking about it.

I want to add to the discussion that I'm saddened to feel the need to pull away from a group of really terrific caring folks - I'm speaking now of that new agey forum I mentioned earlier.  When one is in need or pain they close a circle of love and healing to support them.  I love that about the group.

Where we part ways is in the area of commitment to health.

And it is a bit cultish in that the site owner is slavishly supported even during times her emotions get the better of her.  Any honest criticism of any member held in high regard is seen as betrayal.

Yikes!!

I smoke, IO.   If you suggest to me that I should quit, and your motive is sincere, then what I do with your suggestion is totally up to me.

It might hurt my feelings.  I might be offended and think, oh, I hate that IO minding my business!  I hate that NR board that IO is on.  I need a smoke.

Or.... I can tell myself that IO's heart is in the right place and not be offended.

See?  My stuff.

Quoting Don Juan:

Self-importance is man's greatest enemy. What weakens him is
feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of his fellow men.
Self-importance requires that one spend most of one's life offended
by something or someone.

If others choose to spend their lives being offended by me, that's their choice.  I don't have to choose to spend my life worrying about whether they are offended or not.

Another way to put it... is this a mantra too? Nobody can hurt my feelings without my permission.

Please allow me to indulge in aphorism--

"Blinded by self-importance.... the visionaries of society haven't the vision of a blind musician nor the perception of a churchmouse_"
~~carefulcarpenter

I realy like your post, Aquarius. I can't feel that I could be offended unless I see some truth in one's point of view; a truth that I unconsciously ignore.

And if i were smoking a cigarette whilst making my suggestion. What then? My guess is that this is the reason most forms of counselling are ineffective. The paedophile priest giving spiritual advice, the junkie doctor advising you on your health, the corrupt policeman enforcing the law.

Good question.  Me?  I would recognize the irony and laugh... LOL!!

There can be counseling, or perhaps encouragement which nudges someone in the direction of health, and I think those are desirable.  Of course, there is counseling out of a desire to control, or from ego.... undesirable.  Then there is hypocrisy... my biggest pet peeve of all time!!

What you might consider cult mantras, to me are instead some truths I have managed to glean in my searching.  I'm probably one of the most independent, least cultish folks you'll ever come across.  Along with that fact is that I am pretty immune to hurt from criticism or judgement.... and that comes from working on my faults and trying to know myself.  Likewise, it's equally important to make myself immune to flattery... sometimes that one can be a bit more difficult!!

I really don't know if EFT followers can be considered cultish.  Just because a group has a mantra doesn't preclude any value to that mantra, nor does sharing a truth make a group a cult.

Peace.

It might hurt my feelings.  I might be offended and think, oh, I hate that IO minding my business!  I hate that NR board that IO is on.  I need a smoke.

Or.... I can tell myself that IO's heart is in the right place and not be offended.

See?  My stuff.

Quoting Don Juan:

If others choose to spend their lives being offended by me, that's their choice.  I don't have to choose to spend my life worrying about whether they are offended or not.

Another way to put it... is this a mantra too? Nobody can hurt my feelings without my permission.

That site has been called "cultish" by some... hence my laughter... I've heard it before.

I'm up for your challenge though, point by mantra, if you wish.

How would you handle the friend who is drinking too much?

If someone was quite obviously drinking way too much, it may hurt their feelings to suggest to them that they might have a problem.  They may hate you if you make such a suggestion and retreat into the embrace of enablers to lick their wounds.

Their "stuff."

Being afraid to speak my truth (oops! that's another catch phrase, huh?) because of how others might react is a hurdle I had to put forth effort to overcome.  Yes, their stuff is their stuff.  Don Juan says a warrior wastes most of his energy in self-importance... I try to overcome my self-importance, and allow others to deal with their own sense of same.

Peace.

Edit:  I'm defending truthfulness, not slander or ridicule.  The situation was one where I merely repeated the statements others had made to me previously and publicly.  My words were absolutely truthful.  If the owners of the words disliked my repeating them, that was their "stuff" as they were their words.  If their own words were disparaging to the original speakers, they are responsible for that, not me, in my opinion.

That's interesting, Limukala.  My husband jokes that the routine is so goofy it works because you forget your problem.  Maybe that's part of why it works -- like cross-linking a negative thought to this goofy routine across like Jeffrey says the physical body, conscious mind, and the subconscious mind.

I believe EFT works on people, but I do not believe it has worked for me yet.  I believe it worked on my husband because I saw an improvement in him regarding the issue he EFT'd (but he won't admit it).

I Osokin, I hope you don't feel bad about your friend -- I don't think it's your problem.  But I know it can be painful to find out peoples's true nature when they are not what you thought they were.