In thise case I'm not so sure the child doesn't have free-will.  But it isn't old/big enough really do anything about it, and possibly not old enough to know even know it has freewill for the most part.  But you are correct that there are always victims, and certainly all of those victims don't choose to be one.  I'm in agreement that there is an absolute presence of evil, and I shrug off the recent postings (not yours) about light=dark etc.

As for STS/STO I can see where one might call it moot, but I think it's useful for discussing events + beings that aren't purely good or evil.  For instance where a normally "good" person commits a selfish act.  Does it make the person "evil"?  I think no, not necessarily.  But perhaps indicates a slight inclination to STS.

[edit]And yes, we all have basic needs and do what we can to fulfill those, therefore we are all somewhat "STS".  But I don't think that's what the term is meant to refer to.  Of course I didn't "coin" it, so I can't say for sure![/edit]

[another edit]
I also differ from Montalk slightly in that I don't think good + evil are false dichotomies.  I tend to think of good + evil along the same lines of light + darkness.  So a "good" person to me is about equal to a person of light, etc. Yes, I think there are "relative" good/evil, subjective to one's beliefs.  But I also believe in absolutes in thise case.

I do agree that STS/STO still serves a good purpose for discussions.
[/edit]

/me hides in the corner again.

I believe an argument discussing STS or STO is moot, for a few reasons which I will explain. If you are someone who is prone to doing evil things, like molesting and terrorizing others against their will, then you are an evil being. If that is not your intent, and if you do not wish to harm any, than you are not evil at all, (and perhaps evil has tried to stick its foot on you).

We as consciousness, that is aware in a physical body, has to be service to self. We have to pay attention to the body's physical demands. We cannot state, that we would be STO, and then deny ourselves of something proper like food, clothing or shelter? Everyone is seeking these basic needs, whether they have them or not. This search is not about STS, just about being aware that the body needs certain comforts in order to survive. In regard to STO, I believe that we, as aware, truthful, kind and sincere people, we are naturally STO oriented.

I honestly, want to see to see evil eradicated. I would love to live in a world without evil, I think it would be much more pleasant! I think that this is an assertion, that other truth seekers may share with me. We would love to see the world change, because we naturally are intending the best for others in their circumstances. This could be called STO thinking, though instead I would state that this is a natural inclination perhaps, of some inner truth that we have discovered. I have often felt unsatisfied with STO, because I could never help enough, and it was important to realize that all human consciousness is trapped in the physical body on Earth, and this trap results in an immediate desire for STO, just for survival. The contradiction between such a limited viewpoint is apparent.

Either one is choosing to align themselves with evil, or one is naturally drawn to the truth.

In one side note, I will reveal that I have often contemplated suicide, from this evil and deceptive world. I am currently not considering this at the very moment, because I would sincerely like to see a change in my life time. Maybe it will not happen, though I know that by choosing to live, I am allowing myself both more good and bad experiences, I also have made this decision because I realize that I do not know if there will be further entrapment after death. 

If you are a truth seeker, than you may be naturally drawn to share truths with others. With the STO extremes, it is encouraged that others do operate outside of themselves, and help others. This is not something that typically happens, most people in need are not given the help necessary. So, I do not believe that others can create such a dichotomy, as service to self, and service to others, when those in need are not given the help necessary. If they were, than there would be such a thing as those, operate of service to others. However, we as consciousness, trapped in our bodies, can only sustain the life force we have. We can also only choose our outward actions towards others, either with a sincere heart, or with malicious intent. I have never aligned myself with evil, and I know that is not something I will ever need to do.

I have read about the material stating, how there should be a balance, between light and dark. I think this may have been written with the intent to guise darkness from its evil state. True beings do not need to have any evil influence, true beings are tortured by evil unjustly, and they can only wish for something as fair as BALANCE.

Peace, Tracy

(as z3n-may I call you that - stated)

Of course.   = )

I disagree. Actions cannot possibly define an individual. It's like saying that if I choose to molest a child and violate his/her freewill, that single act would make me STS oriented.

Actions are reflections from what you truly are.

Those were not hypothetical situations, one occurred within my family, one was seen in the ER. I used them because no matter what your race, economic position, philosophy, religion sex etc, there are somethings that truly can be described as evil, wrong, and an abomination, and there are somethings that can be described as good.

Sure most of the time terms are used in way more obviously subjective ways, I'm not disputing that. That's part of why a very common reply from me is "well, it depends".

I made these plural because I realize one expression is not who/ what you are, we are all in a process of growth or change.

You won't find me judging anybody,  besides when you deal with intent the best person to decide STS vs STO is that person, so really they are subjective too, as previously stated they are tools not absolutes.  That still does not negate their use, esp. since we still live in a 3D world where billions of people accept and use the terms.

No matter how much you disagree, it just doesn't pay to get riled up.

Without a consistent movement one way or another you do vascillate between the two. Without consistency how can people come to trust/depend on you?
A person that moves more towards light, does not automatically mean they are "neglecting" the darkness within them, they are moving beyond that and allowing that portion of them to rise above it's nature. They see it, they acknowledge it and ask "what is a better..."
Likewise a person moving towards the darkness does not necessarily "neglect" the light within them, they just refuse to respond to it there by solidifying their nature. They see it, they acknowledge it and say, "I'm going to do this anyway."

My thoughts, my $0.2.

What's so 'bad' about the Lizards?

As I understand it, something will not qualify as 'bad' unless it simply does not serve the purpose for which it was implemented. Now the pupose for a 4D shape-shifting reptilian race's existence might, I would imagine, have something to do with survival but also survival without unity with Source. So, in a sense, to be regressive. Why? Maybe that is their nature - maybe it is not. Of course if their goal is to live in unity with their divine and eternal source then, well what makes them so bad would be their failure to do so for want of their regressive nature itself. Create a farm-world and use others' energies instead of using your own connection to infinity to achieve the same ends.

Tell this to the kid(or adult) that is kidnapped, beaten, raped, and killed or saved before being killed. Do you think they had something evil or wrong happen to them?[edited portion -Perhaps more importantly do THEY think they had something evil or wrong done to them? end edit]

Or the person that is told they have weeks to live only to find out at a check-up that there is not trace of the illness. Do you think they feel blessed/lucky like something "good" happened to them?

I honestly don't think these hypothetical examples apply here. If good/evil is subjective, then how may a faction be accurately defined? Views differ, but the truth is still there.

Using your model respectively - can we then conclude that a singaltary act and/or action will define any and all acts and/or actions in the near future, of the select being? That's ludicrus. For example: I enjoy pleasuring myself. I am satisfied with my superiority. I serve the self. But, I also recieve the same joy from helping others. I like to help others. I want them to be happy and healthy.
Am I STO or STS?

So if I choose to step on someone for my own benefit today and help out a homeless person, take him in and shelter him tommorow, it doesn't really matter if I'm STO or STS oriented, as my actions cannot truly define what I am.

This is but a poor example of the folly that is duality/polarity. While you're out trying to classify me with percentages(70% this 30% that), it will never change who I am. I am balanced(in the process of, at least): Both light and dark, but at the same time neither. I am in the process of transmuting both light and dark into a new spectrum: Grey.

Perhaps this is a futile attempt to remain balanced in such limited physical forms? Perhaps..

I disagree. Actions cannot possibly define an individual. It's like saying that if I choose to molest a child and violate his/her freewill, that single act would make me STS oriented.

No I did not say that Good/Evil exist. Sure, one can commit an act that would violate an individuals freewill, but what if an individual chooses that his/her freewill be violated? Would the being who complied with this request be 'evil' or 'STS', or would they be 'STO' and 'good'.. or just something else entirely?.. seeing as the former individual used his own freewill to make a conscieous decsion to have his/her freewill violated. Perhaps this is the excepection? Perhaps this is an impossible question?

If you don't want your freewill violated, then do something about it. Inventing some false faction to blame your own weaknesses on is simply a crutch. I respect the brave beings who impose upon my freewill, as they directly point out the flaws within my own disiplines. We could destroy them with mere thought, and yet they 'love' us enough to approach and impose themselves upon us, thereby pointing out our own flaws. Of course, that's the mission of the Jinns anyways...

Not necessarily. The darkness and the light are polar opposities. If combined equally(balanced), they transmute into something different; something more; something.. else. Some call this the All; the source.. whatever. Each of us has this potential, you simply need to use the tools given to you(polarity/duality) to remember this. Only a fool would be concerned with aligning himself with his own tools; failing to balance himself out and remember his own, truth nature. You must remember that the light and the dark are nothing more than YOU reflecting upon yourself. You are the 'Grey'. You aren't a light being, or a dark oriented being. You ARE!

I thought that this was covered, but oh well. I simply have to make myself clearer next time

Tell this to the kid(or adult) that is kidnapped, beaten, raped, and killed or saved before being killed. Do you think they had something evil or wrong happen to them?[edited portion -Perhaps more importantly do THEY think they had something evil or wrong done to them? end edit]

Or the person that is told they have weeks to live only to find out at a check-up that there is not trace of the illness. Do you think they feel blessed/lucky like something "good" happened to them?

Good and evil may not be the best or highest level, most accurate descriptors they are however a tool (as z3n-may I call you that - stated) to evaluate a situation or a choice. they may not work with "less severe or dramatic" situations the smaller, more extreme you get they stand-up though.

Good/evil(actions), STS/STO etc, really just stem from our hearts, out of who we are. They speak to the intent. To the heart of the person. Either You decide OR in this world someone else will...the choice is yours, you decide and act accordingly and be responsible for the results.

So really you agree that they exist you just don't like it.  A lot of religions/philosophies talk about the concept generalized as "don't take things personally" events just are, neither good or bad, achieve this then you move on to a "higher" level of distinction. Good/ bad pretty much cease to exist.

I disagree, because then you vascillate between the two components.

I suppose, but what is that person then good/ bad? Light/ dark?

OR have they just accepted who/what they are and surrendered to that aspect.

Or have they accepted who/ what they are and decided there has to be something else and chose that?

Think about all the thought/effort/energy that has to go into an "evil" act(by the way do you think the person knows what they are doing is wrong? I think so because it is the reaction - whether from the victim or in their body - they are looking for that motivates them, which inherently means they know the other person won't like it.)

Meanwhile good/kind/loving opportunites can practically fall into your lap whether you recognize them or not. It's usually pretty easy because it is right there in front of you BUT you need to choose to do it.

Then it would have been better to open with that instead.

Where did ya get that meme??

What evil really amounts to is choices that go against life and continue the false belief that predatory reality is the only way....an obvious and illogical conclusion. Evil is all things that go against life and pretend otherwise.
It takes a willing participant to manifest an evil act. By itself its only an idea. The wrong ideas are broadcast to compliant receivers who for whatever reason are unwilling or unable to think for themselves and realize a bad idea when they think one.

This seems like an attempt to keep the Good/Evil lie going. Good and Evil don't truly exist. They are nothing more than biases manifested via conditioning and/or unnesessarily drawing from the base principles of balance. Birth and Death are one in the same. Duality/Polarity are nothing more than crutch paradigms utilized by those who are unable to fathom oneness. Embrace the insanity..

When I hear of an "evil/dark being" I see nothing more than a singletary being, irregardless of what someone else labels it. His actions are of his own inclinations, which is a subjective thing.

Some might say that 'light' beings bring about balance. This is wrong. Balance is not the quelling of the ego or STO and all of that other stuff. He who is truly balanced embodies both light and darkness equally.

When one sells his soul to the 'light' he creates imbalance.. as he's neglected the 'darkness' within himself. The 'darkness' cannot shine within a 'light' being, thus he maintains the distortion of polarity.

My argument wasn't initially centered around alternative means of survival pre se, but to present some parallels between Humans and the Lizards.

Where did ya get that meme??

What evil really amounts to is choices that go against life and continue the false belief that predatory reality is the only way....an obvious and illogical conclusion. Evil is all things that go against life and pretend otherwise.
It takes a willing participant to manifest an evil act. By itself its only an idea. The wrong ideas are broadcast to compliant receivers who for whatever reason are unwilling or unable to think for themselves and realize a bad idea when they think one.

"Our bodies cannot survive without calories of some sort; without some type of organic food source." ???

Another obvious falsehood.

How about Solarians, breatharians...and others yet to be discovered.
The old paradigm and its false limits is in the process of being shown up.

There are links on this forum right now that speak about not only subsisting on Solar energy but also about people that are breatharians. People are bi-locating and walking thru walls....dematerializing, and doing all manner of things that others cannot possibly believe in....yet they are doing it nontheless.

Good is everything that enhances life and does not lie about things. Good does not create divisions and false reality structures. Language falls short. Read between the lines.

What's so 'bad' about the Lizards?

Nothing.  I love 'em.  If it's true that they gave me their mind, what better gift could I ask for?

Oh ya, good times

Castaneda's The Active Side of Infinity:

=======   ===   =
In days of yore, Lazaris was discussing the Positive and Negative Ego:

Referring to the Negative aspect, They said:

Note: ‘you’ as opposed to ‘YOU’.
=======   ===   =

BRAIN LAYER CAKE

Famous Neuroscientist joke: "The reptile brain computes the four F's of behavior- fighting, fleeing, feeding and reproduction."

This explains why I'm starving and celibate . . .

Thanks for that p-L.