I know it's not pleasant to hear but 1 in 4 miscarries is about right. .

Usually people who are expecting don't want to be that one, however the historical stats demonstrate that anywhere between 1 in 4 to 1 in 3 is normal, even with the advent of "modern" medicine. 

There is often good reason when a fetus isn't carried to term, and I often wonder how much of the expectation that every baby be born is just another manipulation technique to keep people in a perpetual state of fear and disappointment.  Just another attempt to convince people that what is natural is somehow a form of cruel and unusual punishment by placing unreasonable expectations upon us. 

I don't, by any means, wish to tread upon the toes of those who have been trying to have a baby unsuccessfully, but consider that perhaps spirit, nature, and the souls of both the parent and child know when is best to bring somebody into this world.  Perhaps medicine has succeeded in placing undue restrictions upon souls who would have otherwise had another opportunity at life under better conditions. 

Just a thought. .

Miscarriage Statistics,

From The Health Science Report – 15%

http://www.health-science-report.com/mi … stics.html

From Hopexchange – 25%

http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htm

These numbers are just way higher of what I thought was average.  I apologize for doubting the numbers you posted and I am still shocked.  I am glad I did not make an ass of myself.

Regards,

Lee

Hi Lipstick Mystic,

There was a piece of information you provided above I am concern with,

Also, did you know that one in four "normal" pregnancies ends in fetal death or miscarriage?

It just does not sound right that 25% of of normal pregnancies end in death or miscarriage.  I will check some sources to confirm but my gut feeling is telling me is too high.  Perhaps your source is mistaken.

Regards,

Lee

Hi Lee,

The information I quoted was provided to me by a neonatologist friend of mine (someone who works with preemies in the hospital) and also found in many medical research journals.

Here is some corroboration I found on the Net:

http://sheknows.com/about/look/75.htm

From pregnancy author and columnist Ann Douglas:

"Every parent-to-be hopes for a picture-perfect happy ending: the birth of a healthy baby. Unfortunately, about one in four pregnancies ends in miscarriage, stillbirth or the death of a baby during his or her first year of life."

From a medical report about Australian pregnancies - sorry for the long, messy, link, I didn't know how to formulate it:

"In Australia today, one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage, one in two hundred babies are stillborn and another one in two hundred babies die shortly after birth. In some cases, a particular factor can be identified as the causeof a pregnancy loss through miscarriage or stillbirth, but in many cases there is no obvious identifiable causes."

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:UY … k&cd=8

In some of my reading today I found that most of the miscarriages are within the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy, and often the woman doesn't even know she's pregnant yet. So that's interesting. That means that the entire experience is not even a conscious one, yet there is obviously something important happening.

Of course, these death rates are for the Western "developed" world. The death rates are much higher in places with depleted uranium like Iraq. Don't get me started on that. Makes me so mad. Sadly, it seems that those who often claim to be "pro-life" are the ones who are "pro-death," refusing to take responsibility for the horrible fear that every pregnant woman in Iraq has had to experience ever since the FIRST Bush went into Iraq.

The fetal deaths and the rate of horribly deformed babies with NO hope of normal lives has gone up more than 20 percent since 2003 alone, but it also went up after the Persian Gulf war.

THERE IS SIMPLY NO EXCUSE. You can't call yourself human, doing what these administrations have done and are doing to the women, children, and families of Iraq.

Of course, they aren't human. Lack of a functioning heart chakra makes such actions so much easier.

LipstickMystic

There was a piece of information you provided above I am concern with,

It just does not sound right that 25% of of normal pregnancies end in death or miscarriage.  I will check some sources to confirm but my gut feeling is telling me is too high.  Perhaps your source is mistaken.

Regards,

Lee

I just wanted to mention that when a twin is lost in utero, the surviving twin will most likely have some very intense buried emotions related to losing their twin.   It's estimated that 1 in 8 single births start out as twin, and one is miscarried or simply vanishes (gets absorbed by mom or the surviving fetus), and most never even realize they had a twin.

Very true, Mystical Girl. I did work with this particular lady and her new son to resolve some of these issues you mention.  Also, any mother who loses a child, through intention or not, has healing work to do to process the energies.  Many layers of energy are involved at all sides, so it's definitely not a simple subject.

Also, did you know that one in four "normal" pregnancies ends in fetal death or miscarriage? When I learned that, I was kind of shocked. It means that there is a lot going on with the body and the spirits of the two people involved.  Sometimes, a spirit decides to just have an experience being in utero rather than being born, for reasons of its own.  This is also the reason behind many infant deaths, too. The soul didn't want to reach maturity and perhaps needed to resolve some karma by dying as a youngster. Very heartbreaking to be the observer in that situation, because nobody can fathom that having a child die is 'right," but on a Higher Level, many things are going on.

Another interesting thing is how the spirit of the child does not enter the embryo. At least, not the full spirit. There is a physical shell that is animated by PART of the soul of the child, but the emotional body doesn't link in until the age of two (that's why we have no memories until the age of about two,) the mental body linkes in at about age 5 - 7, and the spiritual body doesn't link in until the age of 12 or just at the brink of puberty. (That's what bar and bat mitvahs and other spiritual ceremonies are really celebrating, the arrival of a child's spiritual body.)

There are other energy bodies that can link in later in life, but usually, the person has to be doing a fair amount of spiritual work on themselves for them to link in. These include the creationary  matrix body (which allows us faster manifestation of our thoughts, emotions, and desires) and the "christ" body, which is a high frequency energy body of the vibration Christ is from.  Many sages and spiritual masters have these bodies fully integrated and activated.  Most of us, however, are still in the process of working towards this. And it will happen naturaly when we have reached a point where our energy system can handle this refined energy coming in.

We are all such amazing, multidimensional creatures.

The other day I was getting this inspiration around the word "metadimensional."

That there should be some sort of operating manual for being a "metadimensional" being, conscious at many levels of reality, while still staying balanced in this 3-D reality.

Because I think that's really what all spiritual seekers are doing - becoming conscious across multiple selves, multiple levels of reality.

All right, it's back to work down here in 3-D for me!

Lipstick Mystic

Another woman was pregnant with twins in a new marriage with precarious financial support beneath them.  While she was joyful about having a child and her relationship with her husband was great, the thought of twins absolutely overwhelmed her. Deep down, she just knew she wasn't going to be able to handle the double responsibility.  She was very sad, did tons of prayer and soul-searching, and in the end, left it the matter in God's hands.

A few weeks later she miscarried one twin.  Felt the same angelic sense that all was okay, and this was meant to happen.  Later she delivered one happy, healthy baby, and her family was balanced and able to work towards saving more money before attempting to have a second child.

LipstickMystic - I enjoy your posts so much!  I just wanted to mention that when a twin is lost in utero, the surviving twin will most likely have some very intense buried emotions related to losing their twin.   It's estimated that 1 in 8 single births start out as twin, and one is miscarried or simply vanishes (gets absorbed by mom or the surviving fetus), and most never even realize they had a twin.

http://www.altheahayton.com/wombtwin/

http://vanishingtwin.com/

http://www.rainbowsunlimited.com/VanishingTwins.htm

It gets back to the whole soul contract issue.  Are they set in stone or are they negotiable?  I tend to think that the more aware one becomes, the more negotiable such contracts become as well.  Then again, perhaps the more aware one becomes, the more likely they will choose to consciously fulfill the contract!

I do know that it is possible to communicate with the soul of a potential child and let them know that now is not the right time for you to welcome them into the world, if that's how you truly feel.  Besides taking abortifacient herbs, this is one way to encourage spontaneous abortion.

Absolutely, Tenetnosce, communicating with the soul is the preferred way of changing a birth contract with a spirit who is intending to come in as a child.  I don't think I expressed this well in my prior post.  I support doing lots of shamanic work and communication/negotiation with the soul and your guides and angelic helpers before resorting to taking any herbs that might cause miscarriage.  All of it needs to be done from a deeply aware, loving place.

But the herbs ARE available should a woman decide that she wants to remain childfree. 

I know three women who communicated with the soul of their child and renegotiated the contract.

Case in point - the two single women living at poverty level, just scraping by, with no family members to turn to or help them out, without any "fallback" position with their respective pregnancies....and without men in their lives who were sticking around to play the role of father in ANY way, spiritually, emotionally, physically, or financially. (One guy was a bohemian artist type who had immediately gone overseas and broken up with the woman after their fling, so he wasn't going to be in her life again. The other was an abusive boyfriend the woman had FINALLY been strong enough to kick out of her life, the type a woman shouldn't keep around.)

These women would have been in major dire straits should they have had to continue the pregnancy. No support, no money, no job, etc.  Each woman was headed for the abortion clinic but agonizing about doing it that way. They turned to many spiritual means  - prayer, tuning into the spirits of the baby, etc.  to see if they could make another choice and if that would be okay for the spirit. 

One woman had a miscarriage as she got in the cab to go to the clinic.

Another had her miscarriage at home.  Both women felt a loving, angelic presence as the cord between them and the babies were "cut," by mutual agreement between souls, not through the intervention of a doctor at the clinic. 

Another woman was pregnant with twins in a new marriage with precarious financial support beneath them.  While she was joyful about having a child and her relationship with her husband was great, the thought of twins absolutely overwhelmed her. Deep down, she just knew she wasn't going to be able to handle the double responsibility.  She was very sad, did tons of prayer and soul-searching, and in the end, left it the matter in God's hands.

A few weeks later she miscarried one twin.  Felt the same angelic sense that all was okay, and this was meant to happen.  Later she delivered one happy, healthy baby, and her family was balanced and able to work towards saving more money before attempting to have a second child.

I hear these stories from women all over the world, heard many of them back when I was in private practice.

So it is very true that prayer and communication with the spirit of the unborn, if done sincerely and loving, can sometimes result in the child withdrawing its energy....sometimes permanently, or sometimes to come back to that mother in the future when the timing is better for the mum.  And sometimes the soul will be born to a friend of the mother. I know one woman who had an abortion, and she was in agony about it, but she also somehow knew it was okay. The spirit of the child was later born to a friend of hers, and due to things that were going on in her life, she had the opportunity to essentially become this child's aunt.  So they could still work out karma in a familial way.

I find it all so interesting, the many ways we come here, the many contracts that are constantly changing, and how we are all evolving.

LipstickMystic

I am afraid that if I would have waited until all things were perfect I would have never had my kids.  We could spend an entire lifetime trying to get things right and every time we think things are getting there another fork presents itself on the road ahead.  I like Tom's idea:  If it happens it happens......it was meant to be!

I also want to say that I was not the perfect parent and can honestly say I made a zillion mistakes.  But I believe that these mistakes were part of the contract with the soul I embarked to raise as my child.  We had bad & great experiences that one way or the other will have a lasting effect on this current life on planet Earth.  Hopefully, even the bad experiences promoted spiritual growth, evolution.

On the concept of family breakdown being a positive side effect of the maladies of our current condition I guess it all depends on the definition of the concept of "Family".  If one is referring to the condition of lack of parent involvement, abusive behavior whether physical or emotional and lack of love I will have to agree with it.  But my definition of family is the opposite of what I just listed.  So, if this is the family structure that is been broken up I find it distressing and sad.

I do respect your point of view and perhaps this is what was meant to be for you.

Lyra,

Lyra said,

This is an interesting concept and a variation of it was discussed in Conversations with God Part I.  I think is a worthwhile concept with a lot to be gained if applied properly.  Unfortunately, our society would look at that concept with terrified eyes saying “What, you do not want to raise your own blood?.....Shame on you!”   The usual guilt trip.

People in their 50's are better qualified and more patient to raise children.  They also have experienced a myriad of situations that can be used to nurture and guide these young souls in their early years.

Anyways, like Tom said,

I agree with all my heart!

Regards,

Lee

I admit I havent read every post, but I skimmed pretty thoroughly.  But forgive me if I say what's already been said:

Children have been an ongoing debate in my mind for a long, long time now.  I think I do not want children.  But my reasons probably differ from most people.  It has less to do with me, and more to do with the child.  More specifically, I myself am very unhappy with the state of the world.  I'm pretty disappointed that I had to live at this time, in such a nasty place.

And with loving kids as I do, I don't think I could stand to bring a child into this world.  Not now, not the way it is now, not without seeing an improved world beforehand.  I couldn't stand knowing I could be bringing someone into a life of possibly worse circumstances than I've had to endure myself.

Is my stance on this nuts, or is there at least a bit of validity to it? lol

My uncle is in his late 40s and has never had a kid and never intends to. He's one of the most generous and loving people I've ever known but he couldn't reconcile bringing kids into this crazy, violent world and knew that being a father was not his kismet. I'm not averse to marrying at all, but my entire life never had the least desire to have children. I saw what my siblings and I did to my mom, what my friends did to their moms, etc. and decided I'd have none of it. However....

Lately I've been feeling this small twinge, but still a twinge, of desire to become a mother, not right now, but some day.  In my saner moments I think it must be my biological clock ticking (I'm only 26 but realize that I no longer have my entire youth ahead of me like when I was 18). I vacilate between wanting kids and between being horrified at such a thought. I'm way too self-involved I think to be a good mom. I don't say this with pride, no not at all. It's one of my greater weaknesses, this selfishness and desire to mold my life around my personal goals, and I know that kids would totally interfere with this. I recently became an Aunt for the first time and now have two nephews. I never in my life realized I could feel love this pure and beautiful for anyone and I think it's been this experience more than any other that has awakened these hitherto dormant maternal desires within me. At the same time though, I see what my brother and sister-in-law go through on a daily basis and the more I observe parents the more it seems to me that when you have children, your life ends. You no longer live your own life but are consumed with another. To this I say no thank you. I think that as I grow older I may decide that I truly want children, but not now, no way.

In short, I don't see anything wrong with having kids or not having kids, as long as it's truly what you want.

I agree with the ones that encourage you and your Mrs. to step aside alone and figure it out for yourselves. It is the "hive mentality" poking you. To decide to have kids doesn't mean you agree or are giving into the hive way IF you decide for yourself AND for your own reasons.

I am one that would have kids over again and hopefully I'd get the same kids:) My eyes were already "open" so to speak before I had kids and between marriage and having kids I have learned more of myself (been force to look into the mirror) than by all other means combined or individually!

I think the "breakdown" of the family unit as merely showing the "hive conditioning" and how immature/thoughtless people are getting by entering into anything so half heartedly and with failure already figured(expected) into the plan.

I did not have any special qualifications to have children and I have not earned any special qualifications. The one thing I did/do have is the desire to be the one to teach my kids about life. If I am to teach them I have to experience it.

Anyways say you decide to have kids, don't think the matrix can't find other ways to try to goad you too! I have three healthy girls. We were constantly asked by people if our first one was sick!!! After my third girl I was frequently asked ....Why?....what do you mean why?....Why do you have no boys?.... my response became " well only those truly secure in their masculinity get blessed with all girls....stopped the questions real quick:)

Much like the decision to get married was between the two of you, so is this decision.

I totally agree with tenetnoscoe on saying "I do feel that it is important to give proper attention to my own growth before I embark upon taking responsibility for another's". That's great statement. But you know tenet, this growth has no end/no limit!! So I think we come back to the same point written in various posts above; giving proper attention to one's own growth needs having children for some (learning to be a good sto) and exactly not having for some.

Oh I know!  The truth is I'm prolly in a better position for raising children than 99% of the people who are having them, but then again since I consider raising a child to be the greatest responsibility one could take upon themselves, I set my standards very high, both for myself, and for the potential mother of my children.

Hmm I dunno bout this. It gets back to the whole soul contract issue.  Are they set in stone or are they negotiable?  I tend to think that the more aware one becomes, the more negotiable such contracts become as well.  Then again, perhaps the more aware one becomes, the more likely they will choose to consciously fulfill the contract!

I do know that it is possible to communicate with the soul of a potential child and let them know that now is not the right time for you to welcome them into the world, if that's how you truly feel.  Besides taking abortifacient herbs, this is one way to encourage spontaneous abortion. 

I think that most of the arguments against the choice not to carry a fetus to term comes out of the asinine belief that a soul not only has one incarnation, but only one chance at incarnation.  Life is eternal, and there are endless opportunities to take on a physical garment.  Ultimately, if a particular soul is that anxious to be born and the potential parent isn't ready, they are free to go pursue another host, or be patient and try again later!

Lyra, yes I don't have any abduction experience/memory but some parts of what you wrote ex-act-ly reflects what's in my mind. I've always seen having children as some kind of a interference that will "get in the way". But I think opposite about the programming of society. I've always seen the urge to have children and seeing this as a "biological urge" which I accept as a big lie, is a kind of programming.

And freeme, yes I think I have to consider past-life influences too. Because I felt this negativity against having children even from my childhood. And this has nothing to do with my family, which is a normal one. My parents were always loving and supportive.

I totally agree with tenetnoscoe on saying "I do feel that it is important to give proper attention to my own growth before I embark upon taking responsibility for another's". That's great statement. But you know tenet, this growth has no end/no limit!! So I think we come back to the same point written in various posts above; giving proper attention to one's own growth needs having children for some (learning to be a good sto) and exactly not having for some. As Lipstick wrote - which I definitely liked a lot- "It's not my job to make more people. My job is to make people better." This is great. Thanks for your fascinating post Lipstick. It really resonated well with me.

Having said this... Montalk's post mixed everything.

"Having kids is probably more a matter of mutual destiny and karma with a loved one than personal choice. If it happens, it happens.. " part is what I'm talking about.

C'mon Tom, I was just thinking I'm beginning to solve that looong problem in my mind, but you've taken all the power away again Seriously, this is very important thing you've wrote. Well, it's not my conscious choice to have one but I know that if a soul has chosen me as a mediator for coming to 3D, probably nothing I can do may prevent it.

Then comes some different things to my mind. At this last 10-15 years test-tube babies raised enormously. We know that men's sperm quality decreases and more and more people becomes infertile. Lots of people are going to test-tube baby centers trying to have children. Enter cospiracy. Why is that? What's the hyperdimensional plan for this? I have a lot of things in my mind for these but they are subject for another thread. Man, this gets coplicated..

But in all seriousness, the more educated people are, the higher their class level, the less kids they tend to have, and the longer they put off marriage and family.   The whole NWO/ feminism/annhilation of the modern family is something that's running rampant in young, urban professionals.   And tying into what you wrote, I think for those of the lower class hierarchy with less money living in small towns and rural communities, indeed, it's all about popping out babies at a young age, and having big families, living on poverty wages - being serfs, just like you said.

Yeah there definitely appears to be multiple strategies targeting different elements of the population.  As regards the young, urban professionals, I think its wise to hold off on children until at least some modicum of financial stability is achieved.  Just when careers are starting to take off, here comes lil' Joey, and of course now you "need" a bigger house, and an SUV, etc.  More and more consumption.  More and more control.

A large disinformation point is the whole "biological clock" deal.  This is becoming more and more apparant to me as I approach 30.  I've had friends introduce me to women, etc., and then they throw in the caveat:  "Warning dude!  Her clock is ticking!"  That's a major turnoff to me in several respects.  IMO, it takes several years for two people to really figure out compatability issues, comparison of values, and the like.  Of course there are the reports of "I knew I was going to marry him/her from the moment I saw them."  And of course, many of those marriages have ended in divorce. 

As regards the "clock" it is just plain untrue that women should / need to have babies before they reach 35.  A healthy woman can carry a child well into her 40s.  Most of the evidence around birth defects and such for older women is in cases where the woman has already had several children, often without allowing for ample time for her body to recover in between.  Though not a particularly romanticized way to look at things, a fetus acts as a parasite on a woman's body, and a very efficient one at that.  It takes a lot for a woman to carry a baby, not to mention the toll of actually raising the child once it's born.

And another point on the control subject, the fact that most of the anti-abortion and anti-contraception arguments come from followers of organized religion makes it inherently suspect in my mind.

I came from a family that wasn't particularly abusive, but also wasn't particularly supportive, either.  Things are ok with my parents now, but it's taken a lot of work.   

There's the whole metaphysical bit about experienced souls choosing to be born into an abusive family dynamic so that they can put an end to it once and for all, and I think that view has considerable value.

I still maintain that the "family unit" has been a primary control mechanism utilized to retard or prevent the personal growth process.  Think of all the grotesque forms of abuse that go on in families that would never occur if it wasn't such a closed system.  The idea that these are MY kids and I can raise them how I want represents the epitome of twisted ego-driven thinking, IMO.  Then there is always the case of the trouble child or the alcoholic relative that sucks all the life and resources out of an otherwise healthy family because we are programmed to believe that we owe a special responsilibity to those whose .005 percent of DNA more closely resembles our own as opposed to anybody else's.  Then consider all the people who never pursue their own values/goals/aspirations because they are not acceptable to mother or daddy.  Or even when they do, they are suddenly forced to drop their careers, relocate, or spend their life savings because a parent comes down with some illness at (usually) the most inopportune time.

I was recently told by an ex that one of the reasons she couldn't be with me was because of my disdain for "family values" meanwhile she allows herself to be verbally and emotionally abused by her parents on a daily basis, and has to lie to them about the smallest of things because she doesn't want to "upset" them. 

I may not have a close relationship with my parents, but at least it's honest and they are very clear that I will not tolerate any form of abuse or manipulation if they want to be a part of my life.  And it's made them better people for it. 

Yup. . it makes one think twice about our ideas of "progress" doesn't it?

Everytime I have gone against my intuition or instinct, it's been wrong for me.