Our ego is a part of our current physical body and as such is vulnerable to injury and death just like our physical body is. Our ego realizes this and fears for its survival. Fear often drives our ego to engage in activities that are destructive to ourselves and/or others. When we cannot distinguish (seperate?) between self and ego, self is often obscured by the fear present in ego.

To separate our self from our ego is to realize there is nothing to fear because self is our soul and is eternal. This is not to say that our ego or our physical body are unimportant, they are our current window onto existence and should be nourished and cared for with love and compassion. Once we realize self we can empower ego and reduce ego's fear.... existence then becomes peaceful for both self and ego.

Food for thought...  I have posted a long explanation of the following concept elswhere and I will introduce it here at some point but for now I will just pose an alternative perspective of ego.

What if ego is separate from self but also eternal? We have a time limited connection to our ego so how could ego survive once we are gone? What if ego was not our personal property but like a rental car we only use for a journey. Many people can/do use the same rental car. Perhaps a webcam is a better analogy as many people can view the same reality at the same time but from different places.

quantumsurfer wrote:

Everytime the ego piped up I said sorry, not having none of your thoughts now, I'm busy creating-insert positive thing here like joy, etc.. so shush!

so then there was conflict in the mind - you noticed the 'ego' and you inserted something postive because you didn't want what you noticed ...

QS here: wouldnt really call it a conflict, but you can see it that way if you choose.

QS here: No mind wasn't fragmented, because I am asserting my eternal/higher self/spirit which is not of that which is the physicality self, but rather the creator of it. The mind is intact, I just chose not to listen to its drivel, afterall it is the vice that keeps me blinded with fears, mistrusts, angers, etc... Those were good tools to help me learn, but not so productive a tool to create, which I think is the next lesson plan upwards from the latter.

QS here: again there was no conflict, it tries to interject and I remind it its not permitted to interject at that time, and you allow your focus to maintain vigilance in the moment.

The ego likes to wander, it likes to worry about later, or earlier, or keep itself's importance occupied through distraction and other thought patterns, it doesn't like being ignored, but for me thats ok, because I dont like its creations, and I place more importance on my spiritual needs which is highly inspired to create more responsibly...see no conflict as my free will made a choice.

The ego wants its due attention by my full attention. This can pretty much keep me from the now moment which is where I can make a difference, so it is not such a dichotomy afterall. The choice for me is clear, the practice of course is the key as it is a discipline that again...must be maintained through vigilance of each new moment.

LOL rather like flexing the spirit muscle, afterall practice makes perfect does it not?

QS here: If that is zen then that is zen, although I am not practicing in a meditative state, but a state of awareness. I always believed a meditative state was more of a quiet reflection and connection state through relaxation techniques to quiet and focus, but I do not meditate in a formal style or practice,  so I would not really know the difference for sure.

QS here:Nothing could be truer....thankyou, although I believe luck is is not required and better to those things left for chance, afterall its a discipline, and luck would not produce the same results imo.

Putting that aside I agree Ayahuasca of what Stuie was asserting there too, as it being a means of empowerment.

I spent a great amount of time finally getting that yesterday, as the thread made me put things I have been reading from many sources into perspective. Much of my time was practicing active awareness of every word I thought, as a believer of "you are what you create."

And I dont mean just the overall syllabus  we arranged for the lessons. I mean actively creating with our thoughts every moment now, and the matured understanding of the overall lesson plan is to not only come to the realization but to be that matured understanding/responsible creator!

Everytime the ego piped up I said sorry, not having none of your thoughts now, I'm busy creating-insert positive thing here like joy, etc.. so shush!

Then moment by moment I actively practiced what I deemed as good fruit! Mind you in the scheme of things I know as far as the school goes there is no real bad/good...  its all a matter of perspective, because if both teach, then both are required for the learning curve!

on a lighter note:

Having to deal with a rather large ego myself in this life, I disagree that someone with a size ten ego has a size one soul (naturally I'd think that, eh? ). Seriously, though, I think the relationship can easily be 1:1. If someone has a large ego, it's their soul essence being co-opted by the personality self. The larger the ego, the more power or essential energy is available to that person to be co-opted, and it comes from their core (and we're all far more than we realize).

Sorry i really meant megalomaniac types  as having a size ten ego having little spirituality/soulness
A poor model to use in hindsight

Symbolically could a "balanced" ego could be pictured as
the three interlocking circles representing mind spirit and body and where they meet in the middle would represent the balanced ego.

The book in question is A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, I've mentioned it in another thread and I want to rave about it again. The entire book is about understanding exactly what the ego is and how it operates, and by the end of it your left without any doubt that the ego needs to be dealt with. It's not evil, but it most definitely is dysfunctional. Also dealing with it doesn't mean destroying it. Destroying the ego is impossible I'm sure. Eckhart's solution is to become present in every moment. When you're truly present there can be no ego.

Anyway here's a few excerpts below. The book is so good there's literally something on almost every page I could have quoted so it was dificult to decide to what to use. Anyway, I can't recommend this book highly enough!

I think this next passage is probably more in tune with what Stuie is really saying. That diminishing the ego does not make you selfless or powerless. On the contrary, it actually makes you more powerful.

Andy

oceanchild wrote:

quantumsurfer wrote:

Actually Quantumsurfer did not mention freedom in the above post.

...

quantumsurfer wrote:

Or do we recognise which is what and who is why and make  necessary adjustments of how and when to achieve freedom and ascend to the next level of understanding?

Eeek, my fuzzy slipper was a most nutritious breakfast yummmm, lol. YES I DID SAY FREEDOM!

Should have written freedom to ascend, funny how one little mistakenly written word can throw off the exact meaning of what I meant, to what I actually wrote. anywhoo I meant to ascend, a different freedom indeed.

quantumsurfer wrote:

Actually Quantumsurfer did not mention freedom in the above post.

...

quantumsurfer wrote:

Or do we recognise which is what and who is why and make  necessary adjustments of how and when to achieve freedom and ascend to the next level of understanding?

Eeek, my fuzzy slipper was a most nutritious breakfast yummmm, lol. YES I DID SAY FREEDOM!

thanx for pointing out that other thread, dreamnosis - i haven't read all of it so i might be repeatin' stuff here ... but this is all part of what i've been goin' into for myself over the last little while - so i wanted to share some more ...

oceanchild wrote:

but what's an idea? esp. if it's not mine? i can't explain it as well as where it came to me from: Krishnaj - but i am putting this into practise ...

err - not so much an idea as an insight i've gained by looking at an issue for myself (hear the ego roar! j/k) - someone (JK in this case) originally sharing an insight and me looking into it through myself is what allowed me to have that insight - since an insight doesn't belong to any single person if it's a real insight (in the sense that we're all the same) - but again, each person needs to look into the issue by him/herself to gain whatever insight ...

quantumsurfer wrote:

I must ask myself "who" is doing the observing

quantumsurfer also mentioned 'freedom'  ... freedom from what ?

Actually Quantumsurfer did not mention freedom in the above post.

More on this subject...

IMO the way to understand your ego is to observe it in action, see its pet hates and loves and that automatically takes you to another self who is aware of its own ego awareness but is seperate from it.

I agree this practice is part and partial to truly loving who you are, and for being "the student," but I must ask myself "who" is doing the observing, as it is just as vital I recognise the ego is not THE most objective observer for the task.

To "re-create" the ego could be an egotistical attempt to maintain the ego as well, could it not?

I ask because I have to question myself in this area as well, afterall balance in this area is not really what I seek. If I seek to be the forgiving spouse (in terms of understanding... not abused or cheated on btw) , do I seek balance by being an equally argumentative spouse?

I DO agree with Stuart Wilde, but I view it with an opened mind regarding what I think he intends to impart on the matter.

You see for me... what I believe he is saying is to put the little ego (or big lol) to sleep, let one captain steer the ship or the other, but to vascilate back and forth doesn't really give either full authority over the vessal now does it?

I think we do this by the process of observing and gaining full understanding of how the ego not only operates but WHEN the ego is most in aggressively active, this gives us the ability to recognise the moments when we put our pratice into action does it not?

I believe it is "a part of the process" to achieve the goal of what we are striving for. Afterall are we not looking to become enlightened by the very knowledge we seek through understanding of it? Is in really possible then to have it both ways once we understand the knowledge we gain? With what I understand it is not.

Self denial is not what Stuie, or even I for that matter are talking about. Loving oneself through complete understanding of the operater of the self, accepting what we understand how the self operates, and then acting upon that understanding where the decision of whether the operator is capable to take us to the next level we intend to arrive at... is.

The ego is the operator of the human self, yes we are human, or are we?

Is it not true afterall that our humanness is merely the illusion we have created for the purpose of learning?

Have we not become ensnared within the university the real self has created for the purpose of learning by experiencing humanness creation?

Leaving the trappers aside for a moment, what is the trap being used to keep us bound?

Our own mind, our humanness?

Now how do we escape the trap...by balancing the spirit that is our authentic self with the humanness that is the illusionary self?

If so how can you balance the authentic with the faker?

Do you pay full price for the faux pearls, if you do has your own lack of knowledge been the cause for you to be cheated?

Or do we recognise which is what and who is why and make  necessary adjustments of how and when to achieve freedom and ascend to the next level of understanding?

Bottom line...who you want to steer the ship depends on your goal of destination. And the Captain must have a full appreciation and knowledge of the ships instruments to get you there successfully!

Why would I let that which is veiled in blindness steer anything any where?

But this is merely my own understanding in the matter, and not to be taken seriously.:|

This Feed-Back-Loop has it that the metaphor for Ego is:

Head mail clerk in a Large Corporation: Planned, Necessary and Valued.

A distinction is made between Positive and Negative Ego:

The Positive clerk sorts and sends the mail (Senses) to the appropriate departments for interpretation and action.

The Negative clerk has somehow gone Insane and thinks it's incharge of the Corporation - Possible cause:

A. Seeming desertion of the CEO and a sense of overwhelm at responsibilities it knows it can't handle [and it's Pissed big time].

B. That it is *A Foreign Installation* - A parasitic raid on the Assets and Information of the Company.

Potential solution:

Get the CEO back in the Boardroom:

Pay Attention to Focus:
Which *voice* (clerk) do YOU listen and Respond to? [*The Greatest Freedom is Responsibility*]  Consider: Response-Ability.

Began moving toward Inner Silence and away from the constant yammering of the lunatic.

I'm just adding my two cents worth. What everyone else has said is pretty good.

Balance.......don't completely annhilate the ego and "become nothing".....keep it under control.   As with everything, we're only given two choices you know.  Either or, black and white.  In this case, we've been told that our choices are to either completely elimiante the ego, being at perpetual war with it in the meantime until this happens, or, let it run free, and indulge it to the extreme, doing no personal work on yourself whatsoever. 

X!   Choice 3....balance.

And it works great -- for them, not for the poor souls obviously.

And you can see exactly what this produces -- zombies who are willing to do whatever they are told.  Just empty shells, I guess that fits the "organic portal" description?

So yeah.. or something!