Here's a MJ joke I heard the other day that has nothing to do with that subject:  "America is the only country where a poor Black man can grow up to be a rich White woman."

I thought it was funny

People who have been molested may not find the jokes i posted funny, but none of the jokes i posted are gonna cause them harm either , we are not that fragile.

Well yeah i became a little belligerent with impatiens. obviously impatiens found the jokes offensive and im sorry she / he felt that way but she/he tried said i had no decency and that i should delete my post... ill post whatever i want!  if you dont like it dont read it!

yeah thats me just a little immature kid...

"In fact, something could very well have been working through him to get him to post this in the first place. "

Yeah something was working through me and got me to post some michael jackson jokes in order to spread chaos throughout noble realms!!!

I only post this because this thread seems to be taking on epic proportions.   Some good points have come out of it, regarding our shadows (kato) using humor to face the darkness (vuyiswa) and a general debate with auendove and impatiens arguing that certain topics just aren't funny under any circumstances, and Kato and Vuyiswa taking a different stance.  It's all very interesting, and has probably gotten a lot of people to think.   But in the end, never forget that this is just a thread started by an immature kid.   He's not worth feeding the moon over.   In fact, something could very well have been working through him to get him to post this in the first place.    So let's keep that in mind all.  Okey dokey??   !   

Thank you Lyra for that reminder. That is why I majorly edited this post.

let's not forget, that you are not obligated to read any of his jokes, ya know?

like Auendove said, she stopped in the middle of em.

ah, but it can be hard, yes? its tempting to read things, now isnt it?

let's try an experiment:

do not read this sentence

d'oh!

I make no assumption about your words Auendove.

Well actually my dear, you had made an assumption about all our comments when you wrote--

This was your perception, it's right there in writing. And in your previous post you didn't offer this--

--just a "label" of 'knee-jerk reactors'.

V? My dear soul sister, I've highlighted and bolded these of my words--

A "recourse". A recourse is an alternative course of action, and says nothing about a cessation of action... and not a darn thing about throwing "the baby out with the bath water".

And V, for all of how I respect you, and for all the wonderful and insightful emails we've shared, and even taking a chance of putting all that in jeopardy (this I hope will not be the case)... please do not tell me what my triggers are as though you are privey to the innermost workings of my psyche. To know me better is to know this isn't going to sit well with me. I realize at this point it may sound like I'm defending my being what you called "triggered", but mostly I'm feeling like you are out of line too... though only where your knee-jerk comment and this particular personal issue is concerned. I just am really taking issue with you seemingly jumping into my awareness/energy field and reading me through your filter, and then defining me.

Pursue this further if you'd like, but I've made my position clear and I'll not join you in anymore discourse. I am happy though, as odd as it sounds, to get to know one another better. Being soul sisters, or friends, or even just acquaintances is not always easy when each party speaks honestly and from the heart.

Both you and Kato3 had awesome and beautiful insights into tolerance and the Shadow, and outside of my above quibbles with our discourse here, I honor your path and all that its taken to be "I just am who I am". Both of you. I love you both dearly.

I only have two more comments, and then I don't think there'll be much of anything left for me to say--

1) Now that this thread has shaped up to be what it has become, I'd like to add my comments about the Shadow world.

I find much within the Shadow that is honorable such as resilience, self-presevation, and that that knowledge base offers opportunities for transmutation of what's held in our darkest corners, and to bring that into the light. As well there are aspects of the Shadow I find myself unable to advocate.

With those words written, this was my initial response I had about shadow-fires at 3 AM this morning when I first read Kato3's post, and it is still holding water for me many hours later--

I have and do indeed embrace the Shadow because there's much of value there, it's one profound tool of learning and growth if approached with discernment.... I do although refuse to support its indecencies.

And that's me defining myself, at this particular juncture in my life, and no other person.

2) There are indeed more productive and "off the block" ways to raise awareness about molestation. Both of your posts have exemplified this, without making jokes.... weeeell, there was that serial killer joke (just a little rib-tickling L). The other aspect about the jokes is that they feed the indecency.... they hold a place for it.

Peace-out! It's been REAL! Even if it has grown to be more about a lot of ohter important things, rather than just the issue of Brad becoming beligerent with impatients.

The level of consideration of the words one uses does not mean that at root, the response is not a trigger to shoot rather than a balancing of understanding both the light and the shadow. I speak from personal experience of having to deal with getting justice for my son who suffered abuse when he was too young to speak up for himself. An examinatin of what is "taboo" is always useful, but I stop at denying another a right to express, however insensitively, their sense of self.

Another example of a "taboo" subject maybe the issue of race and sex. I hear many racist and sexist jokes which I as an African woman used to respond to with great anger.   I consider myself to be an empath, so it is not through a lack of consideration that I express this view.  If something does not sit well with one, then one has a right to ignore the offending issue. Of course I am not saying that STS tendencies of racism and sexism should be allowed to run rampant on this forum. But the humour and fun section is perhaps the only arena where we can safely offer mirrors of the monsters that assist us to "not blink at the light and the dark". Of course this depends on whether you accept with all your heart, that All is One.

My only ammendment as I alluded in my other post, would be to change the peadophilia references to arenas where we know for sure that it occurs like the Catholic church for example. Michael has been found innocent. And what the exostence of these jokes shows me is that there was a presumption of guilt all along. But that says more about the personality assasination campaign against him and midddle America's acceptance of it, than anything else.

What I find interesting is that humour is one of the safer outlets in the matter of balancing our tolerance of the shadow side of humanity. Take an example of the land of my birth South Africa: an indicator of the healing of the trauma that South Africa's Black African population went through for over three and a half centuries, is the growing number of jokes about what the white population did to Africans. In laughing about it, we are not denying its existence or significance, but are seeking to find a way of healing and living with a past we canot change. I find it inspiring to see the number of former prisoners, including Nelson Mandela, that not only laugh at the agony, but have found a way to forgive those otherselves that hurt them so much. Despite reports to the contrary, there are pockets of great healing in South Africa and humour has been of great service in this regard.

The humour of Richard Pryor works in a similar fashion with regard to America's trauma regarding its treatment of Black people. Pryor is merciless on both sides of the equation. He spares no one including his own racial group and his own personal screw ups.. All the above does not mean you condone the shadow's actions, but it does mean you can find a way of at least looking at it and seeing that it is as much a part of us as the "safer" issues on the light side of the spectrum.

I make no assumption about your words Auendove. You have thoughtfully told Brad he is out of order, but I do think your response is a trigger becuase you wish him to stop. I  would agree with  you if he were advocating paedophilia, but he is not. I too am thoughtfully expressing and sharing  how I am working on balancing my expression of living in light and love. And at this point, bearing in mind that I am not in my youth like Brad, I have had enough catalysts to find a level of acceptance that would have astonished me 25 years ago. That of course does not mean I am "better" than anyone else.  I just am who I am.

Love,

Vuy

I feel like Brad was not meaning harm and his response felt like a defense to me. Maybe I am wrong and he is a heartless prick and I will regret standing up and asking for lighter more compassionate hearts all around? That is not what I feel of him, I feel he is finding his way like the rest of us. I feel like maybe given a little more room his response would have been different. I feel like maybe this is none of my business and yet having been molested and feeling the jokes were kind of funny well it made me want to share that.

Well, he had settled into that "room" a few days ago. If you'll notice he edited his post. His post before read something along the lines of "C'mon you guys... they're just jokes!" He then later,  a number of hours later (plenty of time to think about it), changed his response to--

It wasn't a real stretch to see he was baiting impatients. So while you may "feel like Brad was not meaning harm", I'm not convinced his intentions were well conceived. 

I don't know about impatients, Ayahuasca, or z... how quickly their kness were flying, but you've made a false assumption where I'm concerned. I in fact was thoughtful, and well considered my words. You may disagree with my post (and others'), but please don't infer that you are fully "in the know" as to how my particular post was composed, and where it sprang forth from.

L and Vuy,

When Brad first posted the jokes I started reading them, and then stopped. No, I fail to see the humor as appropriate, under any circumstances do I find them appropriate, but I hadn't a thought one of commenting. I saw his comment about "C'mon folks...", but hadn't a thought one about commenting. The rest is outlined above.

I second what Kato3 says. The humour Brad shared is a mirror for many, and in our society many do not want to process the feelings that abuse of children or indeed any extreme STS behavour engenders in our hearts. The responses to him were knee-jerk re-actions, not  thoughout responses to how otherselves behave. If yu accept all is One, then the child molester is us too. The shadow is as much a part of us as the light.

My son was molested and primed for sodomy at the age of two. It was theonly time in my life that i considered killing another human being. Luckily through divine intervention, i got him out of the situation before he was killed. ( I had a premonatory dream that showed me exactly how he would have been killed). The agonies I went through to heal that pain is what gives me this level of tolerance about such matters.

So yes, by all means object, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Brad chose jokes that are based on a lie as Michael was found not guilty, but nonetheless, there is an interesting lesson for all in examining the triggers that made some come down on him like a ton of bricks.

I would only ask you Brad to take note of the level of sensitivity around such issues and hopefully not take the responses personally, becuase they are more about the responders than anything to do with you personally.

I intend no offence and hope that none is taken.

Love,

Vuy

DOUBLE POSTER!@!!!!

Oh please impatiens you drama queen, lighten up!!... You didnt go into convulsions when reading them or have a seizure or anything did you???

Whoa now little dude, this is belligerent. I can accept that you're young and socially unsophisticated, but this is way uncalled for Brad.

Consider this, if you can: Another fellow human being who has been molested in their lifetime will not find a "harmless nature" in any joke about molestation... nor will a person who has any kind of empathy. I write "if you can" because if you've never been molested and haven't yet refined your sense of empathy, then you just may be incapable of grasping the true levity of what molestation does to a person... to a child.

You are way out of line here Brad... this kind of callousness and rudeness should not go without recourse.