Noble Realms

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Noble Realms Forum is now closed. It will remain online as a searchable archive of posts spanning 3/25/04 to 2/22/08. Members may still log in to use email functions, but there will be no further posting activity. Thank you to everyone who has contributed over the years. - Tom/montalk

#31 2004-12-14 15:55:01

Ayahuasca
Shaman
From: Peru
Registered: 2004-08-06
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

I think we all need to try and take Stuart's words, below, into our hearts. As he says there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with people and offering an alternative viewpoint, but we shouldn't antagonise people. We're nearly all guilty of it, me included.

Stuart Wilde wrote:


...Of course, that softness and gentleness has to be in your heart and you will have to decide. But itís not hard to go the right way, it is just easy to be led the wrong way. Donít fight, donít compete, donít lie and donít play at being special. Build your own sacred path, one of kindness and warmth. Donít rob people, or sell them shonky, over-priced products, donít use people, donít sue them, and donít covertly sell your sexuality to buy protectors and influence. Donít control and donít manipulate and attack people, even if the people you want to attack are utterly rotten. You have to reach a place where you are at peace with humanity. You can disagree with others and say so if you wish, and you can have political and social views but you canít make your antagonism into a cause cťlŤbre, a black and white situation, for that would be just your righteous shadow seeping out. Donít scream, donít shout, and donít threaten people with emotions. Donít buy people. Treat them as real and equal.

Either love people or be neutral. Accept who they are and donít try to cajole them into what you think they ought to be. They will come when they are ready or not as they wish. If you or they have to leave, be gracious in the parting of ways, wish them every good fortune and genuinely mean it. If they call you every name under the sun, agree with them. If they rob you, let them. You pulled them to you after all, so you are not totally an innocent party. Prove that you care for humanity especially those who have hurt you; those you donít like, those you donít agree with, and those you find objectionable. And offer everyone, absolutely everyone you ever meet, a kind word.
http://www.stuartwilde.com/Articles/SW_ … beauty.htm

Last edited by Ayahuasca (2004-12-14 15:55:26)


Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

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#32 2004-12-14 16:07:25

montalk
forum-keeper-upper
Registered: 2004-03-25
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

I could always resurrect the Battle Arena category for threads where cranky people can crank it out and knock each other out. Quite fitting considering how the recent wrestling thread became a wrestling thread. Yeah, once or twice a month, say around new and full moons, we could attend the scheduled main event in the Battle Arena, donning our NWO t-shirts and waving around big foam gloves as we crack open some budweiser and cheer on the contenders. (just kidding...well, half-kidding)


Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

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#33 2004-12-14 21:36:14

freeme
Member
From: US
Registered: 2004-09-21
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

montalk wrote:

I could always resurrect the Battle Arena category for threads where cranky people can crank it out and knock each other out. Quite fitting considering how the recent wrestling thread became a wrestling thread. Yeah, once or twice a month, say around new and full moons, we could attend the scheduled main event in the Battle Arena, donning our NWO t-shirts and waving around big foam gloves as we crack open some budweiser and cheer on the contenders. (just kidding...well, half-kidding)

Sounds like a really good idea to me.  Or maybe a "Time out" corner? big_smile
Kathy


Never Give Up!

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#34 2004-12-14 21:49:20

Neomatrix
The One
From: Zion
Registered: 2004-09-28

Re: Request for active moderation

lyra wrote:

Can we drop this, people?   At this point it's gone into the realm of needling.   Poke poke poking a thorn into someone's side for the sake of needling.

I agree 100%, which is why I'm not going to respond to Haven's posting here. He can think whatever he wants about me, and I really don't care either way. Just so that you all know, there seems to be ample evidence to show that john the revelator was, in fact, our old friend aaronfirebrand. That makes sense as to why he targeted me so intently. Haven simply allowed himself to become a pawn in someone else's grudge game. I hope we can be done with this, as he and I have been talking quite reasonably (and logically) about interesting material on other threads since john/aaron was banned.


"Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Unknowns create fears. When these Unknowns become Knowns the fears diminish and disappear, and we are able to cope with whatever confronts us." - Robert A. Monroe

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#35 2005-10-10 18:15:30

morningsun76
the answer has been with you the whole time
From: In two worlds
Registered: 2004-09-11

Re: Request for active moderation

lyra wrote:

Energy wrote:

... these "cleansing" drinks ...

That's great, but, I didn't take any drinks ...  So whatever you've just described doesn't apply.

As usual.

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#36 2005-10-10 19:05:28

whywhywhy
????????
From: LA
Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Request for active moderation

Energy wrote:

Take the emotion out of a human, what do you have?  A robot.  Someone who is PROGRAMMED to REACT with NO EMOTION (FEELING). 

If moralman has an opinion, he has a right to that opinion.  Throwing him to the curb for stating his opinion has an equivalent analogy:

A man is working for a newspaper.  He goes to the editor with a story.  The editor tells him he can't print the story, because it is too opinionated.  So the man goes back to the typewriter, starts revising.  Eventually, he learns to produce work that is almost totally unbiased and devoid of any emotion at all.  The writer feels that if he expresses himself, and expresses his opinions, that he will not be able to have his work printed.  So, he decides to become a souless robot, devoid of emotion, fearful that people will condemn him for his opinions.  Eventually, that person becomes the editor.  And the cycle goes on...the world keeps spinning...for now...

Energy

I am new in this forum and hate to throw my two cents on this on-going situation. In essence, Energy's statement above is correct but moderation and consideration towards others I suspect will not make you lose your soul....your identity.  Sometimes we get so bogged down by what we believe is true that we push and push refusing to believe that somebody else may have a better answer or perhaps "the answer".   Petty arguments and holding grudges will get you nowhere.  I have had discrepancies with energy not because we disagree but because of the way he convolutes his statements.  It seems like almost meant to confuse.  That is my perception and I understand energy may not see it that way.  I could be wrong but I never professed I knew everything.   I have never held a grudge on anybody and I am not about to start.  I actually wish energy well and hope we can have better discussions in the future.  You got to meet me halfway!

Last edited by whywhywhy (2005-10-10 19:06:52)

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#37 2005-10-10 19:55:26

morningsun76
the answer has been with you the whole time
From: In two worlds
Registered: 2004-09-11

Re: Request for active moderation

I'm replying to comments from another thread.

lyra wrote:

Haven wrote:

The Icke forum has a great code of conduct:

Um, Haven?   Just because the Icke forum has those rules, doesn't mean everybody abides by them.

In fact.......far from it.

I registered with the Icke forum, but decided to not be an active member there due to all the nonsense, fighting, cussing, personal insults and all around, neverending negativity that was going on there.  That place gives me a major headache.    So much so that I can't even go there just to read.   It's that bad.

Having a publicly posted "code of conduct" and having members who actually follow it are two totally different things.  There's NO moderation going on over at the Icke forum, the last time I checked, which was several weeks ago.  "Harris" is supposed to be the moderator, but Harris seems to be MIA.

But don't everybody take my word for it.   Meander over there and have a look for yourselves.

And that is the reason why most of us don't spend any time at the David Icke forum, or on Usenet, or many others.  Some of us have better things to do with our time than bother weeding through countless posts by other people whose purposes, integrity and standards of conduct do not match our own.  The only reason I personally frequent this particular forum is that it is unique in expecting a much higher standard from its members than anything else I've yet found.

Last edited by morningsun76 (2005-10-10 20:16:00)

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#38 2005-10-10 20:02:56

lyra
Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
From: my own private idaho
Registered: 2004-03-25
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

morningsun76 wrote:

And that is the reason why most of us don't spend any time at the David Icke forum, or on Usenet, or many others.  Some of us have better things to do with our time than plow through tons of garbage posts.  The only reason I personally frequent this forum is that it is unique in expecting a much higher standard from its members.

Exactly.  smile


"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

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#39 2005-10-10 20:06:27

lyra
Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
From: my own private idaho
Registered: 2004-03-25
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

Energy wrote:

Lyra, I did find your reply to a post with a giant blurb of NO DOUBT's Gwen Stefani (a high order Reptilian...bone structure...continuously changing hair color eye color...make up and fashion...almost like a Camilleon) offensive.  I found no basis for how a song by Gwen Stefani talking about the fact that she is "just a girl" and "little old me" (sound like a riddle??? little...old...me) to be another tool to convey a point that was as convoluted as it was confusing.  Yes, I have studied their lyrics, even went to the concert with some buddies back in the day...Weezer was the special guest, and IMO, they were a lot more entertaining as far as actual musical content.  The show was lame, they got boo'd off stage in music city.  That was awhile back, but now Gwen has sunk low enough to be waltzing around with R&B artists talking about how she's been "around the block, and ain't no holla back girl"  I'm sure she has been around the block (she says so herself), more than a few times...but she ain't been on the streets, and she doesn't have the first clue about how the game is run.  Sometimes, if you really wanna get some perspective, you have to go all the way to the bottom with the homeless...drug addicts...hustlers...gamblers...even the "mafia" to see the reflection and get a better understanding of how the government operates.  And how churches now operate.

This forum lies on the fringe of alternative study.  Let's not be like the hippies who live on "the Farm" in my state, where if you wanna get in their "community", you have to sap up all their beliefs (vegan, a year long application process, all sorts of laws, etc...)  But they are accepting of all, unless you actually wanna live there, in which case you must accept their way of life.  And if you can't deal with opinions and emotions, than do what some here seem to be doing, and accept nothing.  And if someone actually formulates an opinion, berate that person for their opinion.  I wish Moralman would come back, some of his threads were very popular, and some of the questions he asked were very good ones.  I, for one, am simply not going to allow my being to suppress emotions and then have them come out in some tirade.  That's where anxiety came from, paranoia, fear, etc...etc...Lock up your emotions, and you'll lock up your energy.

Regards,
Energy

lol  lol  lol


"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

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#40 2005-10-10 20:20:15

lyra
Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
From: my own private idaho
Registered: 2004-03-25
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

Energy wrote:

Congratulations:  Lyra...Morningsun, you have been desensitized by the media and feel as though you should not be offended in any way...shape or form. And if you are, that is negative.  Right? 

I guess you will eventually have to continue banning people who don't conform to your technological (machinist) views of this world.  And when people question those machinist views, you will retaliate by any MEANS NECESSARY. 

Energy

lol  lol  lol


"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

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#41 2005-10-10 20:36:38

whywhywhy
????????
From: LA
Registered: 2005-09-18

Re: Request for active moderation

I hope tomorrow is a better day.  Let's get back on track!

Lee

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#42 2005-10-10 20:58:13

montalk
forum-keeper-upper
Registered: 2004-03-25
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

To repost what I said 2005-09-14 18:47:28

montalk wrote:

Phlux wrote:

Any and all people should be allowed to post here - if they truly Knock, it shall be opened on to them. If instead they attempt to drain, then let them draw only silence.

Energy still has the ability to post and no one is calling for his removal. People are just stating their opinions and calling him out a couple things in his posts. To allow any and all people to post means to allow even the types of posts like those in this thread. Ideally we should all be responsible for our own actions, but not everyone acts responsibly all the time and we are definitely not responsible for the actions of others. To fully disallow someone from posting would require membership deletion or banning.

So for the sake of experiment, I will do this once, and once should be enough: for the next several weeks (one month), there will be no membership deletions or banning. Members are allowed to say anything within the scope of a topic without concern for moderation. If someone attempts to drain, then it is your responsibility to refuse to participate. No one will be forcibly removed for speaking their minds.

This should test the wisdom in the idea that "any and all people should be allowed to post here."  It could turn out well, or it could turn out horribly. We'll find out.

I'm sticking to my promise. There will be no moderation at least until the 14th, one month from the above post. But I am still free to express my opinion, which is as follows:

What some do not understand, and others are positioned to exploit, is that "any and all people should be allowed to post here" is a utopian ideal that sounds good in theory but fails in application. I think it's something to strive for, but a simple "let's all act nice now..." is not enough. That is why there are moderators. And where there is no moderator, things turn messy over time. David Icke forum is a case in point with the signal to noise ratio being very low. The opposite risk is moderator tyranny. The narrow path between both risks is so thin that people will differ in their view of whether things are balanced or not, which is further cause for discord.

This forum is like a house, people visit and talk. Then someone comes along and shits on random couches, or if clever then in hidden places not all can find. Things start to smell. Some people will get noticeably upset, but a few will accommodate the offender and try to find another couch to sit on. As the smell grows and seats disappear, the first group either pulls out the brass knuckles or gives up and leaves. It ends in either blood or filth. All this can be avoided if problems are nipped in the bud.

The crux of this problem is that discord is a mutual thing. If trolling and flaming do not directly damage the harmony of a forum, then member reactions to that provocation will. This is especially true if the provocation is subtle enough that half see it and half do not. The resulting rift creates the kind of mess that accounts for 90% of all turbulence NR has gone through so far. All it takes is someone to draw a line in the sand, suck up to the suckers and throw daggers at the rest. Count 'em: blackbox, racsouran, jazzpen, moralman, etc...

If the goal is to protect the harmony and integrity of a forum, there must be a choice in what to sacrifice: the offender or the reactor. It would be nice if psychos, crazies, and matrix agents didn't bother with joining, and it would be great if the suckers who clap for them after getting ego stroked would also not bother. But alas that is not the case in an open forum where anyone can join. Something must be sacrificed, what should it be?

Last edited by montalk (2005-10-10 21:09:04)


Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

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#43 2005-10-10 23:37:08

morningsun76
the answer has been with you the whole time
From: In two worlds
Registered: 2004-09-11

Re: Request for active moderation

montalk wrote:

Something must be sacrificed, what should it be?

You speak rhetorically and had already decided this question long before you posted it here today.


montalk wrote:

What some do not understand, and others are positioned to exploit, is that "any and all people should be allowed to post here" is a utopian ideal that sounds good in theory but fails in application. I think it's something to strive for, but a simple "let's all act nice now..." is not enough. That is why there are moderators. And where there is no moderator, things turn messy over time.

I have always had a high regard for your work, Montalk, and I must say I am therefore quite perplexed as to why you felt this experiment was necessary.  You clearly indicate here that you know full well what the inevitable result of a failure to moderate must be, but yet you went ahead with this course of action anyway, even if only for a month.  I don't understand why you chose to do so.   Was it to demonstrate the resulting discord and friction to the general readership of the site, in order to prove the point?    For perhaps the first time, I feel I truly don't understand what you are trying to do here.

Yours respectfully,

morningsun76

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#44 2005-10-10 23:46:17

Marcus
Member
Registered: 2004-10-15
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

Maybe it was to prove a point.  Because everytime Montalk bans someone he gets complaints by people (the same people each time), that he shouldn't have done it; that it was unnecessary.

So maybe those people will finally understand what is going on.  Personally I doubt it very much...but it's worth a try.  Besides - everyone is always so frightened of stepping up and saying "xx is being a jerk", because the are frightened of causing "offense".  People can only be offened if they have got something surpressed within them.  Speaking ones mind is not the same and stiring up the crap.

Montalk's experiment should also have illustrated that.

But then maybe I am off and he has other reasons totally...

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#45 2005-10-10 23:53:18

phlux
Infininja
Registered: 2004-03-25
Website

Re: Request for active moderation

Montalk wrote:

Phlux wrote:

    Any and all people should be allowed to post here - if they truly Knock, it shall be opened on to them. If instead they attempt to drain, then let them draw only silence.

Ok, well I resisted replying to or qulaifying that statement; yes, its an utopian ideal to hold if perfection in adherance is expected... and I admit that I am in agreement with your statement smile ("Lets all act nice now")

I also think that I let this be taken out of context a bit, to be understood in the more obvious meaning. I did not mean that there shouldnt be any mdoeration of active trolls, but that there shouldnt be any suppression of thought. I know that it is hard to identify the more skilled trolls, and I believe that you have been quite good at spotting them and pointing them out in the past Montalk. I was re-acting to something where I *personally* felt there was a spiraling downturn in hypocratic posts...

There *should* be moderation, but that does not mean that moderation equals ensuring that posters have the same opinions as you/one/the forum... opsing ideas should be allowed to be posted - but *NOT* personally attacked. it was the personal attacks that got me motivated to post what I did...

I retract the whole effort though as it did not yeild positive results, which is what I was seeking and I apologize for that.

With Love.

Phlux

Last edited by phlux (2005-10-10 23:54:12)


"It's hard to advance freedom in a country that has been strangled by tyranny." - G.W. Bush 04/13/2004

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