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#1 2008-02-09 23:25:19

Kahnsentrayshun
Member
From: Upland, California
Registered: 2007-01-21

Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

I'm still thinking about this one... but here's what I got so far. We may end up having hyperinflation up to a point and then after that it will be deflation.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … ;plindex=5

This guy thinks that we will experience hyperinflation up until a stock market crash. After the stock market crash there will be extreme deflation, (meaning your dollar will sky rocket in value.) So basically, we will see more and more credit being issued which will increase the money supply up until a crash, which will cause all of the lending to disappear. All of the credit will disappear, which will decrease the money supply drastically.

Diversifying into gold, silver, wads of cash, cartons of cigarettes, bottles of hard liquor, and survival food may be the best thing to do. I was actually thinking the other day about how people will probably still accept cash if a crash happens. It is so psychologically ingrained in them. Instead of using debit and credit cards though, it'll be just cash.

Money supply = actual money in circulation + debt

The debt fluctuates when people default on their loans or new loans are issued. If we enter a period where lots of people default on their loans and don't make their credit card payments, then the money supply will shrink. Keeping money in the banks is probably a really bad idea anyways. The banks' reserves are all debt anyways.

He recommends reading a book called Conquer the Crash.

Here's a video on him explaining deflation.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … ;plindex=5

Last edited by Kahnsentrayshun (2008-02-09 23:30:09)


Strengthen your microcosm. Love. Knowledge. Faith.
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#2 2008-02-09 23:53:36

Pamelajean
Thank you Tom
From: relocating to Noble Dreams
Registered: 2006-01-30

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Where is all of this gold people are investing in?  Fort Knox?  Well at least we know we've seen gold there and they couldn't possibly be bricks that are plated to look like gold.  Everybody and their grand dad is invested in gold, but where is it in reality?  Anyone know?

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#3 2008-02-10 01:07:28

Kahnsentrayshun
Member
From: Upland, California
Registered: 2007-01-21

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Aaron Russo thinks there is no gold in Fort Knox. He thinks it's being used as collateral against all the loans we have with foreigners.

When you invest in gold through stocks, your investing in the gold mining companies I think. When you buy the physical version, your investing in actual gold.

The real gold is located in vaults somewhere. The gold gets minted and then stored away somewhere. Does it matter where it actually is?


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#4 2008-02-10 02:02:14

Pamelajean
Thank you Tom
From: relocating to Noble Dreams
Registered: 2006-01-30

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

The real gold is located in vaults somewhere. The gold gets minted and then stored away somewhere. Does it matter where it actually is?

Sure, Matt, because I think gold is a MLM scheme.  I don't think the gold is there.  I think the gold on this planet is used elsewhere.  If everyone that "owned" gold were to cash it in, what would happen?  Why would anyone invest in a gold mine?  Where are the mines?  Is it wise to invest in something that might be there?  Why?  When the dollar crashes, do they go dig up the gold and hand it out to the millions of people that own the gold?  How does one go about cashing in this gold everyone's owning?  Is there change for an ounce of gold?  Will the ounce of gold buy a loaf of bread? Can a gold chain get a tank of gas?  Does the gas station give you two inches of chain back?  It really just doesn't add up. 

I think the gold (just like paper money) is a scheme and is nonexistent.  If it does exist, is it possible to use it, in practicality, to buy things?  Maybe the best question is "who is holding all of the money invested in gold?  Smith Barney?

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#5 2008-02-10 03:59:09

Antaeus
Member
Registered: 2007-07-06

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

There is a substantial yet still finite amount of gold in the world.  Mention might be made to large finds made in ships which sunk in many sea's around the globe.  Platinum, Palladium, silver, etc., and also gems will hold value to those who really don't suffer so much from whatever economic cataclism you think is coming. 

If California was a seperate country, it would be the fifth richest in the world.  But not so you notice, if you are the average citizen.  It must be a downer to see evidence of this wealth, yet also see evidence of poverty, and being young, a person could feel a bit despondent, knowing college is the best path to take, but not enthusiastic enough because of having a pessimistic outlook on the foreseeable future.  The nature of the child not completely gone, wanting, having desire and wanting those desires filled NOW! 

I remember some song about country folk who lived a modest life, they never noticed the "Great Depression" because they lived a life more close to nature which was sort of self sufficient.  If we do suffer some terrible catastrophic economic depression which you seem determined to warn us of incessantly, I hope people kind of create self sufficient communities and that we can count on some sort of protection by our government from the inevitable marauders that seem to come out of the woodwork.

If there is some perturbed equilibrium in the economy, I suspect it will be brief and not nearly as bad a picture your painting.  So knock it off, people have their eyes open already.  It seems like you are trying to scare people by projecting your fears onto this forum.


Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
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You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

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#6 2008-02-10 04:25:29

morningsun76
the answer has been with you the whole time
From: In two worlds
Registered: 2004-09-11

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Research on the "inner earth" subject might lead one to reasonably believe that gold is in fact not scarce at all, but exists in great abundance -- just not on the surface of the planet.     Several accounts  written during the past couple of centuries describe inner earth civilizations where gold is practically overflowing.     Apparently even modern shopkeepers of the Mt. Shasta area report "people from the mountain" who offer no dollars, but instead gold nuggets that far exceed the value of the items they are purchasing.   Naturally, the shopkeepers do not object.

Interesting point of trivia:  do you know why coins have "reeded" edges?  It's a throwback to the times when real gold and silver were still used to coin money.    Since the metal of the coin itself was valuable, people would sometimes shave the edges of their coins before trading them away.   If it was done well, it would be very difficult to detect and a person might not know whether the coin they were accepting was intact.   The mints addressed the problem by milling the grooves into the edges of all coins, so that a visual inspection of the coin's edge would quickly indicate whether the coin had been tampered with.

When governments began circulating the junk-metal coins which we today use as "legal tender," they still used reeded edges for the subtle psychological effect that would be gained from a coin having a visual appearance of value, even though there was no longer any risk of loss from coins being shaved.   

http://www.custom-coins-online.com/images/reeded.jpg

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#7 2008-02-10 06:43:31

Almeirhria
Member
Registered: 2006-06-22

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Only a small percentage of actual gold is kept in relation to that 'owned' or invested in.  Thus it would be impossible for all 'owners' to trade all at once such as in an emergency. Therefore unless you have the real thing and assuming trading is not frozen (by the government as may be done in war-time/emergency) then you could probably go back to playing WoW.

Consider well though, will you really need any finance if the market crashes?


Love is Knowledge is Light

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#8 2008-02-10 08:04:12

Kahnsentrayshun
Member
From: Upland, California
Registered: 2007-01-21

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

PamelaJean wrote:

Sure, Matt, because I think gold is a MLM scheme.  I don't think the gold is there.  I think the gold on this planet is used elsewhere.  If everyone that "owned" gold were to cash it in, what would happen?  Why would anyone invest in a gold mine?  Where are the mines?  Is it wise to invest in something that might be there?  Why?  When the dollar crashes, do they go dig up the gold and hand it out to the millions of people that own the gold?  How does one go about cashing in this gold everyone's owning?  Is there change for an ounce of gold?  Will the ounce of gold buy a loaf of bread? Can a gold chain get a tank of gas?  Does the gas station give you two inches of chain back?  It really just doesn't add up.

I think the gold (just like paper money) is a scheme and is nonexistent.  If it does exist, is it possible to use it, in practicality, to buy things?  Maybe the best question is "who is holding all of the money invested in gold?  Smith Barney?

I totally agree with you PamelaJean. There is for sure a scheme. There are more bonds issued than the amount of gold can account for. That's a given.

Can gold and silver be used practically if shit hit the fan? I have no idea... Most people wouldn't have any gold or silver bullion whatsoever. Most people would have whatever crap is in their apartments or houses and whatever knowledge and physical ability they had that could be used for labor. There aren't many coin shops around and even still they couldn't supply the population with nearly enough gold and silver. If people were trading gold and silver it would probably be in the form of jewelery. If people aren't trading in dollars, gold, or silver, then what would they trade with? I plan on getting cartons of cigarettes and hard alcohol because I know sure as hell that those will be trade-able. I'm trying to do whatever I can in preparation, and that's all I can do. I'll do my minimal preparations and that's that. I do what I can and then I don't worry. I have no idea what is to come in the near future to be honest, but I might as well prepare for a scenario I see is very likely to happen. Once I made my preparations, no more effort and thought needs to be given towards it. The rest of my time can be used to read about uplifting spiritual stuff and used to get a loving girlfriend or something.

I know the U.S. banking system's reserves consist of 100% debt owed to the Federal Reserve.
http://www.agorafinancial.com/5min/bank … -and-more/

Our entire economy is based off of debt from the top to the bottom. This cannot go on forever. Our economy is kept afloat by the Federal Reserve diluting the money supply by loaning money to major financial institutions. I know a crash is going to happen. Too much evidence available to not think that. What happens after is what is uncertain. Out of the chaos will come order. What will be the *pause* new world order? The order of the world is going to change before our eyes. It's coming. What will the new order of the world be like? Will the dollar still exist after the crash? Will local currencies start to develop? Will the flow of goods between countries be maintained?

morningsun76 wrote:

Research on the "inner earth" subject might lead one to reasonably believe that gold is in fact not scarce at all, but exists in great abundance -- just not on the surface of the planet.     Several accounts  written during the past couple of centuries describe inner earth civilizations where gold is practically overflowing.     Apparently even modern shopkeepers of the Mt. Shasta area report "people from the mountain" who offer no dollars, but instead gold nuggets that far exceed the value of the items they are purchasing.   Naturally, the shopkeepers do not object.

I see that as very possible. I've read the earth is more honeycomb structured than what we are lead to believe. That's also some really interesting trivia about the reeded edges of coins.



Btw... I don't write about this stuff to scare people. I write about it, because I am seeking answers about this particular topic. I want to know if instead of the physical paper dollar being worth nothing (because of hyperinflation) it will actually be worth a lot because of deflation. A lot of us believe the dollar will be worth nothing if a crash happens, but maybe the opposite will be true. The money in banks won't be worth anything, but the dollar itself will be. Maybe it'd be better to go to a forum that is more focused on economics instead of spirituality though. I can understand if this appears negative. It is negative. It's not fun or uplifting talking about a crash, but I still want to know the facts so I can make the best decisions. Once I am certain about what I need to do, I do it, and that's that. Seriously, I don't want to invest much time and energy into this subject anymore. I just want to get this deflation thing straightened then I'm good to go.

Last edited by Kahnsentrayshun (2008-02-10 08:10:48)


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#9 2008-02-10 18:32:16

sinaptix
Member
Registered: 2005-07-09

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

I don't really believe there's going to be a horrible collapse of civilization. So far there's been smooth transitions, like the EU into the euro. I don't there that there must be a huge crash in the USA or world civilization, of course all the fear is hyped and entertaining. Could be, I don't have hard data to refute. But TPTB are few, and are at the top of this system. If it crashes the savage masses are gonna run amok and be gunning for the rich and the elites and raiding their houses and stuff. They've always giving the lower classes enough to pacify them. It's in their own interest too do that, it allows them to live large, and the police and security forces are enough to maintain a nervous order.

I was just emailing someone, and my own conclusion is that I'm not gonna be the guy fighting to the death over the last can of pork and beans... I'm not that attached to my existence here. Other than that, I don't think it will really come down to that. But I only have some naive faith or hopeless optimism. I'm certainly not investing myself in that future. And if it happens me and everyone else will be totally f*cked. and how much better is it to have a couple cases of stale MREs stashed in the closet? You guys are a big downer. Makes me want to buy a gun and shoot myself. f*ck this reality if that's how it's going down. Predators can have fun eating my industrialized polluted toxic flesh. Go right ahead, there's gotta be something else out there to do that's better.

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#10 2008-02-10 18:38:12

proto
NR has changed my life!
Registered: 2005-12-14

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

I think you worry a little too much about money. Money is good to a certain extent when you need to buy things that pertain to your survival such as food, clothing (don't go overboard on it like 300 dollar Italian jeans like me a few years back), rent, some books that you would benefit from, GAS and other car related things...you know the deal. Also, you want to be wise with your money so you can save a little dough and buy experiences (a vacation somewhere around the world or in the US), a few essential supplements,  or if you found yourself a little honey, you can use money for dating (if she's a cool chick and worth it and not some golddigger (no pun), video hoe) etc.

I don't want to lecture NR, since we're a smart bunch, but we all should know that money is a joke in a grander scheme of things. The more you worry about it, for some reason, the more it seems to run away from you. It's not based on anything and it's useless, though it has power. So here's the thing...be smart about it, know its purpose, get a cool job that provides for you comfortably for your needs and some of your wants and that leaves some cash in the bank for savings. Stop being a consumerist and live a little below your means because looking back, you wind up throwing away all the little knick knacks in the trash anyway.

I also remember you posting something about going back to school for engineering. I think that would be a GREAT idea IF you're going for engineering, since that degree holds a better investment and a better future. Engineers are cool.

Also, NETWORK with people. That's where you'll get "hooked up" with a great job and override all the red tape in getting whatever. NETWORK = MEETING FRIENDS = BEING A FRIEND= HOOKING UP A FRIEND = GETTING HOOKED UP. That's where you will put what we all talk about on NR to some good use. Keep your chin up, know that you are guided by positive forces and know people in NR want nothing but the best for you Kahn and run with it! You can't go wrong. I hope this makes sense.

Last edited by proto (2008-02-10 18:38:44)


"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same."
Carlos Castaneda

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#11 2008-02-10 19:45:20

Kahnsentrayshun
Member
From: Upland, California
Registered: 2007-01-21

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Alright. You guys definitely don't want to hear this stuff. It sucks, I know. Sorry for being a downer. I'll take this discussion somewhere else. Hopefully there will be a smooth transition of some sorts. That'd be totally awesome. May the force be with you all.


Strengthen your microcosm. Love. Knowledge. Faith.
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#12 2008-02-10 21:33:30

Kahnsentrayshun
Member
From: Upland, California
Registered: 2007-01-21

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

sinaptix wrote:

I'm not that attached to my existence here.

Neither am I... I hope instead of having to deal with a worldwide crash I can just dissolve into a massive energy wave of consciousness. If that doesn't happen, then I'll do what I can to survive, but I'm not going to resort to cannibalism or fighting over food if that what I have to do to survive.


Strengthen your microcosm. Love. Knowledge. Faith.
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#13 2008-02-11 03:02:43

lawofattraction
Member
Registered: 2007-05-10

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Kahnsentrayshun wrote:

Alright. You guys definitely don't want to hear this stuff. It sucks, I know.

I don't mind hearing about it. Personally, I think you should buy some gold and/or silver if you can afford it. Regarding the inflation vs. deflation debate, I think Dr. Antal Fekete has the best handle on the situation:

http://www.safehaven.com/article-8507.htm

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#14 2008-02-11 06:05:10

Kahnsentrayshun
Member
From: Upland, California
Registered: 2007-01-21

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Thanks lawofattraction! smile That actually makes a lot of sense. We tend to think of Federal Reserve notes, (Fr notes: the dollars bills you can fold,) and electronic dollars as the same, but that article is saying that the two are drifting apart. So we will see hyperinflation and deflation at the same time. Electronic dollars will be hyper inflated, FR notes will be deflated, and gold and silver will sky rocket in value compared to electronic dollars (but will compete with FR notes.)

I think I can lay this deflation issue to rest.

Yeah, so if the electronic dollar collapses, we will see the main currencies for exchange being FR notes, gold and silver bullion, gold and silver jewelery, food, packs of cigarettes, and alcohol.


Strengthen your microcosm. Love. Knowledge. Faith.
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#15 2008-02-11 13:02:46

lawofattraction
Member
Registered: 2007-05-10

Re: Financial Crash: Don't Buy Gold?

Here in New Hampshire the Free State Project people have already started an alternative "monetary" system based on barter of silver and gold coins. Mostly silver. They are also experimenting with trading alternatives like booze, cigarettes, etc. Many of them were also using the Norfed Liberty Dollars (a private gold and silver backed currency) before the Feds shut it down a few months ago.

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