136

Re: Ron Paul for President?

Try visualizing me scratching my head and saying huh?????

137 (edited by proto 2008-01-06 01:24:09)

Re: Ron Paul for President?

fr0gdance7 wrote:

you know...i'm really amazed at the fact that persons can have such a view and opinion on who other people should vote for, despite the fact that they dont vote themselves. I admit that I have times felt that the political situation has failed me, perhaps still do...but even though the political situation is complex or maybe even rigged, I still decide to vote. And I vote on terms that "appear" realistic. The reason I have appear in quotes is because we do live in a highly controlled media world, and that candidates that should get their voice heard simply can't. I do agree that there is a censoring of certain candidates; Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich for example.

If you state that the political situation is rigged and complex (aka shady), why bother participating?  If you vote for people that "appear" realistic, what you are really saying is that you are still buying into the illusion/matrix, nontheless someone who is another phony, giving the people false hope and promise that there will be change, yet they leave out whether if it's a good or a bad change (they are clever).  People do not realize that it's the same thing/technique/illusion that they use every year to give us a sense that WE have the power. Do you think it's that easy to get ourselves out of this mess by using your voting (or e-voting with computers, which leaves no trails, btw) power?

And BTW, I did vote in 2004 for Kerry. At that time, I was a more or less unaware about politics and its true meaning, especially in the US. And no, I won't vote again and that's my personal choice. I also am not telling everyone not to vote. They can vote for the next American Idol for all I care, but I can still say what I believe and if you have a problem with that, then really, ain't mah problem.


fr0gdance7 wrote:

But when looking at a country-wide population that is controlled by media, can you really expect a vast majority of these persons to spend time and research investing on a candidate whom they've heard so little from?

Yes. If I can, what is other people's excuse? Again, people need to stop looking at others to help them save themselves. Childhood is over and it's time to be adults.  If the "vast majority of these persons" are unable to educate themselves, then they get what they deserve. Sounds harsh, but it's true. You cannot wake people up that are on a different wavelength or better yet, YOU CANNOT FORCE someone to do what you want them to. They CHOOSE to watch controlled media, they CHOOSE the allowance of being stomped on via having their personal rights stripped when a police officer comes up to them and asks them for ID for no reason. They CHOOSE this docile life of a repetitive nature of work, sleep, home, repeat. They CHOOSE to listen to their friends chuckle after talking about "weird" things, hobbies and what have you. The only thing you can do to help someone break that off is to read them and throw in a few seeds/questions/statements and see how they react, but don't get too "know it all" and pompous because that turns people off and you can screw up. The keywords are people skills and finesse.



fr0gdance7 wrote:

Furthermore and regarding Ron Paul, can we simply put a vote based on beliefs that he's not NESARA or he's not faction controlled or he's not Illuminati or even that he's not related to Cheney? I might even be related to Lyra when it all comes down to it. Personally I think these are concepts that belong in the rumor mills. But since I believe this forum is a free exchange of opinions and information, one should not be shut down and be called "dopey" for thinking otherwise. We have so many opinions, and what pisses me off more than anything are those who post links or talk and talk about the uselessness of getting involved in "mainstream" politics or selling their souls to the devil

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I didn't call anyone dopey or stupid for voting. Like I said before, they can vote for someone on American Idol for all I care. And yes, I felt like I betrayed myself by voting by buying into this mass hysteria and not focusing on the good aspects of myself, improving on the bad and helping people and being a friend, when the situation arises. I'm all for strengthing myself and others so when we have a "good president" we're strong and when we have a "bad" president, we're still strong. I don't have the time to have some politician change my life. Sorry, sir.

fr0gdance7 wrote:

As much as we'd love to live in 4D, we're still a part of current reality.

How do I know if I'll go to 4D? For all I know, I might be sent back to 3D or even 1D. Also, I highly doubt you know the people in NR in person, so it's unwise to completely make a broad statement that we're all day dreamers, playing harps and saying "love and light" while having our heads in the sand. No. Many people in NR are highly intelligent and great people and I don't think many are that dumb to live like that and ignore the current situation of what is going on in the world.

fr0gdance7 wrote:

There are real world issues that need to be addressed in the current place we're in. My question is for those who decide not to vote...is this about non-violence or pacifism? And if neither are these are the answer...then, "what are you doing about it?" One can talk and one can blog and link and what have you...but seriously...why remain so dis-attached? Sure most of us are aware of free energy, aliens, and 9/11...but that's not ALL we believe in.

No, I'm turned off by people who have jellyfish as a spine, so that is not the case. So what am I doing about it? Amplfying my everyday experiences to be a service to others and helping people out in their lives. I seem like a magnet to others to turn to and though I used to see it as a burden, I don't and I make as much of a difference to them. If that's not good enough for you, again, not my problem.
Also, those people who "blog and link and what have you" are the types of people who are responsible for creating kick ass forums like NR and eye opening websites like Montalk.net and the other webistes members have.


fr0gdance7 wrote:

Lastly, I want to express that I remain largely unaware of why so many people support Ron Paul. I understand that he's a constitutionalist and a libertarian to some degree, but from watching what debates he's been in (unfortunately not as many), i just dont see the appeal. Sure there's his opinions on the federal reserve and the war in iraq and drug issues, even free market. But has he really declared that he would change any of this?

Perhaps I havent watched EVERY youtube post that persons have linked, but the ones i've watched are about opinions. But what makes him different than some of the other candidates?ALL of these candidates are about TALK. Maybe in the end, nothing has really changed.

You wonderfully explained to the whole forum why Proto doesn't vote for any of the candidates. The system hasn't failed me, it was a failure from the beginning.

fr0gdance7 wrote:

And that's the sad part..., IMHO not voting just "allows" a candidate to win or lose, but in the end we can still vote; take a proactive stance and Hope.

No thanks. It's ridiculous. It's unfair.

"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same."
– Carlos Castaneda

138 (edited by fr0gdance7 2008-01-06 01:18:02)

Re: Ron Paul for President?

Ya know, I really don't know why i'm pissed off that people choose not to vote. Some of my best friends choose not to vote and it just makes me mad. I mean, i don't get into screaming matches with them or anything. Most if anything i'm just mystified and try to understand their point of view, but can't. But God you're right about politics getting people, especially me, real riled up. (sorta like religion). I was reading over my post again and noticed how i refrained from mentioning any names, but i kinda did in a passive aggressive sort of way. Maybe i've been watching too many campaign speeches wink

Now that you mentioned it Lyra, I do now notice how Ron Paul does answer the questions he's given, and he answers them directly not in that run-around politician kinda way. I respect the candidate for that, and maybe that's why many like him. He's honest.

I remember in high school reading Walden by Thoreau, it's been awhile but i remember really loving how he was self-sufficient, living in a cabin he built, growing his own food. I really wanted that sorta hermit(ic) lifestyle and the spiritual progress that can be made living such a life. Yet here i am living in a large city and even after short times of being alone in forced personal introspection, I still strive for connections and relationships or i'll go nuts. Dunno what i'm trying to get at, but I think the essence of humanity needs to be this interaction of people, and systems...in this case our government. I'm not 100% sure if elections are rigged or not, but I for one certaintly don't want to wait around for the system to collapse. There are issues that are close to me that i'd like to think my voice could have some impact; human rights, war and peace, the environment. If elections are rigged then well...i've wasted 20mins or so to vote, whatever.

And i do agree Piece...that just voting is not enough, but i also think that not voting is also not enough. What happened in the 2000 and 2004 elections was a disaster and really opened many eyes. I wonder what we can do to ensure that the 2008 elections won't repeat it's predecessors. It would be a shame to wake up in the morning after election day and experience deja vu and wonder why. To wait for the system to collapse could result in (worst case scenario) many lives being lost....many lives more than already has. I just know that there are candidates out there that i don't want to become president, above others. And i'll use cards that are dealt to me...or I won't use them at all. Obviously the latter is the majority that many on this forum agree to.

Anyways, despite differing opinions I respect them all, and please understand that i'm not pissed that you're expressing them, i just happen to disagree with some of them.
And that's OK.
smile

oh and by the way Proto, i havent even read any of your posts on this thread, so my post was in no response to yours. i'll happily read yours and give a response later.

139 (edited by proto 2008-01-06 01:22:59)

Re: Ron Paul for President?

fr0gdance7 wrote:

oh and by the way Proto, i havent even read any of your posts on this thread, so my post was in no response to yours. i'll happily read yours and give a response later.

I would feel horrible if I were to write a long post like that and feel like your post wasn't indirectly given towards me, so I checked all 10 pages and I was the only one that had that phrase: partially sold my soul to the devil", in which you wrote in post 129:

fr0gdance7 wrote:

Furthermore and regarding Ron Paul, can we simply put a vote based on beliefs that he's not NESARA or he's not faction controlled or he's not Illuminati or even that he's not related to Cheney? I might even be related to Lyra when it all comes down to it. Personally I think these are concepts that belong in the rumor mills. But since I believe this forum is a free exchange of opinions and information, one should not be shut down and be called "dopey" for thinking otherwise. We have so many opinions, and what pisses me off more than anything are those who post links or talk and talk about the uselessness of getting involved in "mainstream" politics or selling their souls to the devil.

You sure it wasn't directed towards me? Chill pill? You don't need to happily read what I wrote and I don't need a response from you, really. My whole write up isn't response inducing or name calling or whatever. I said what I had to say and that's it. Next time, re-read what you write before posting it.

Now back to the topic being discussed....

"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same."
– Carlos Castaneda

140 (edited by fr0gdance7 2008-01-06 01:43:55)

Re: Ron Paul for President?

OK proto, then i apologize, i read through all the posts today to see if i had indeed directly responded to a post to yours and i couldn't find it...but it was late when i wrote and reading through all of the 8 pages i did last nite, sorta got lost and took everything i read at the time to write my response.

But yeah...for the record I don't think that my post is veering far away from the this thread at all.

141 (edited by nexus 2008-01-06 19:59:56)

Re: Ron Paul for President?

I am aware of the issues like most people here but i'm finding the "either / or" argument dificult to grasp. 

It goes something like this... " I don't need to vote because i'm doing my own things for change". 

To paraphrase it by using a quote from Proto... "We're strong... whether we have a good or bad president, we're still strong.  I don't have the time to have some politician change my life... sorry"

This approach expresses a denial that political power can effect you.  Political power is yours if you will demand it back in the form of a working constitution.  If you don't, then the effects of political power will remain out of your control and will effect you and your fellows in ways which no amount of denials will change... no matter what else you are doing to work for the common good.  Somethings are shared by everyone and need to be defended by everyone.   Defense in deed is sometimes called for.  The most foundational American thing shared by Americans are the Principles of the US Constitution (USC) enshrined in law.

The fact is that "some politicians" (and their backers) are already changing your life whether or not you have time for it.  It's just that you haven't yet seen the knockout punch which those political traitors are enabling.  A noose is closing around the neck of America.  The rule of law is being removed piecemeal.  I don't want to judge anyone, i just see a cause/ effect sequence playing out in plain view.  If Americans don't have the time or the inclination, for whatever reason, to unite on this one issue... the US Constitution ... then everything else which it allows you to do will be threatened.  If you desire to keep doing those things that are uniquely your gift to everyone else, and if you would continue your path unmolested by the dark forces gathering, then do something about the physical foundation ( the USC founded on spiritual principles) of your freedom.  Ron Paul looks like a good start.  There's not much else out there sparking the flame of freedom in the hearts of people. 

Whether or not RP wins, the pusch has begun.  Why not add your weight to it.  At least show the PTB who they are up against and in what numbers.  Thoughts and words are powerful creative forces.  But so are deeds and sometimes deeds are called for even when the odds aren't great.  Begin the political pressure somewhere, then keep it up.   The consequences of avoiding the political confrontation, are inescapeable if too many continue to look the other way. 

Maybe the un-informed within your sphere of influence, are just waiting to recognise your own voice in support of the principles embodied in the US Constitution.  Maybe some of them are waiting to be en- couraged by your support (of the USC) and just need your own interpretation of the issues to really understand.  It is sometimes amazing what that can achieve and how far it can spread.  Key people can galvanise those who respect their opinion and others unknown.

142

Re: Ron Paul for President?

Pamelajean wrote:

Try visualizing me scratching my head and saying huh?????

A turnip truck transports turnips from one place to another...sometimes they fall off.

Ok , whats your point. I don't see the connection to what I posted.

143 (edited by lyra 2008-01-06 12:31:03)

Re: Ron Paul for President?

fr0gdance7 wrote:

Dunno what i'm trying to get at, but I think the essence of humanity needs to be this interaction of people, and systems...in this case our government.

Well, no offense, but I think that's kind of limited.  You're basically saying that government and elections, (and the laws and rules and control and corruption) that come with it, is what is needed to bring people together.  !   People don't realize how programmed they are, the way in which all other options and ways of doing things have been stamped out of our awareness, so that the "solutions" they see are the ones that were given to them by the very controllers who programmed all other options out of them in the first place.  I don't envision a world where people "need" government, laws, rules, control, deception and corruption in order to be united and have an excuse to come together.  There has to be a different way.


fr0gdance7 wrote:

I'm not 100% sure if elections are rigged or not,

Well, there's enough compelling evidence out there to suggest that they are.  The 2000 election was thrown off by voting issues in Florida - missing ballots, and so on.  George Bush's brother Jeb was the Governor of Florida at the time.  Interesting coincidence there.

Then there is the bloodline issue, once again.  The fact that so many presidential candidates and actual presidents (and even prime ministers, apparently) are all supposedly related in some form, and can trace their genetics back to common ancestors.  I was open to believing the alternative researchers such as David Icke who've been screaming from the rooftops about this for years, but still wasn't 100% sure that this wasn't made up.  Then Obama came forward admittedly that Yup, he's related to Cheney.  Then I was like, "REEEEEAAAAlly."  Hmmm.  hmm  Now I believe that there really is something to this.  And I wonder who in turn they both can trace their ancestors back to, if it's the same thing that ties all the other presidents and candidates together.  Again, Icke was saying that it's supposedly the candidate with the most special bloodline genetics going on that will win, which is why W. Bush had to win, and not Gore.

But what all this genetics/bloodline stuff brings attention to is the fact that despite whatever we're brainwashed to believe in school growing up, NOT just anybody can become president in this country.  They'll tell you this in school, saying, Isn't America just swell!  But if it were the case, then why are all these presidents connected and on "the inside" in some way?  Even Ronald Reagan....some might be inclined to think, Okay, well there you go....a B movie actor who legitimately worked his way up to being Governor of Cali, then on to the Presidency, there's no bloodline genetics or "inside" stuff happening there.   But yet - there's that infamous pic of him at Bohemian Grove sitting next to the future President Richard Nixon.  Two future presidents sitting next to each other at the Grove, and one of them just some movie actor at the time.  Why would this be, unless it weren't planned?  Unless they, and the people around them, knew something the rest of the country didn't know?

It's almost too obvious to ponder, but being president of the United States isn't something that the powers that be take lightly.  They NEED that "person" to be under their control, serving their interests.  So it HAS to be somebody who's connected with the organizations and societies and on in the inside.  Somebody who's been groomed for years and will do what they're told.  It can not just be some renegade average Schmoe, no matter how educated and smart they may be, who by fluke luck winds up in that office, somebody who doesn't already know the power player string pullers personally and doesn't already know what the deal is and how it really works.  W. Bush is there because Father Bush was there.  Father Bush was there because he was VP for 8 years before that, working under the B-movie actor who was at Bohemian Grove with future Prez Nixon, and top of the CIA before that, and in the military, who comes from a hoity toity family that was involved in a lot of stuff.  Al Gore was VP under Clinton and came damn close to becoming Prez himself because he's supposedly related to Bush as a distant cousin.  So that was "allowed" to go forward.  Now we have Obama, a distant cousin to Cheney who's the VP under W. Bush and who goes back to the Father Bush administration?   It goes on and on.  The research is out there is one is interested in finding out about the connections among past presidents and other leaders, such as the Roosevelts, Winston Churchill, and so on. 

All you have to do is look at history.  Look at what's there, the way things have gone, who's doing what.  See between the lines.  It's staring right back at you.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

144

Re: Ron Paul for President?

nexus wrote:
"Whether or not RP wins, the pusch has begun. Why not add your weight to it."

No.
I am not looking for my political savior.

To do so would be to acknowledge that the political system in of itself is a wholesome institution.

Can someone name one political system which has ever been truly free (including so-called "democracies") and didn't ultimately funnel control upward?

Do any of you actually believe this one man could turn our system on it's ear?

You aware ones are helping to maintain this illusion!

How the hell are we to progress when we keep believing in, and giving our energy to false !!FALSE!! monuments?

All you can do is better YOURSELF, under a system which is beyond any genuine hope.

Think of it as personal anarchy.

J

Happy to have been a part

Re: Ron Paul for President?

I'm sure Ron Paul knows the dangers -- maybe he figures what the heck .. might as well try to awaken as many
as possible regardless of the result ... honor him for that ... certainly, no presidential candidate has ever mentioned
the Fed/IRS in such light -- creating SOME difference has got to be better than doing nothing....

The mills of the Gods grind slow, but oh, how fine they grind.!

146 (edited by nexus 2008-01-07 05:52:46)

Re: Ron Paul for President?

ape-x wrote:

nexus wrote:
"Whether or not RP wins, the pusch has begun. Why not add your weight to it."

No.
I am not looking for my political savior.

To do so would be to acknowledge that the political system in of itself is a wholesome institution.

Can someone name one political system which has ever been truly free (including so-called "democracies") and didn't ultimately funnel control upward?

Do any of you actually believe this one man could turn our system on it's ear?

You aware ones are helping to maintain this illusion!

How the hell are we to progress when we keep believing in, and giving our energy to false !!FALSE!! monuments?

All you can do is better YOURSELF, under a system which is beyond any genuine hope.

Think of it as personal anarchy.

J

No.  One man cannot turn the system on it's ear.  That is why the system needs you to fix it.  You are your political savior.  Your system enables your personal power if you will exercise it.  Ron Paul is simply the focal point who has focussed the constitutional issues for Americans.  People who support him are not "acknowledging that the political system in of itself is a wholesome institution."  No, they are acknowledging what Ron Paul is saying.  That the system is unwholesome and broken and needs fixing. 

You cannot avoid a system where people live in society together with rules of engagement.  Those rules must be shared and respected by all.  Personal anarchy is not possible for you in a society of animals masquerading as men.  That reality means that people are not ready for an anarchical society.  It is a very long way off.  In the mean time the rule of law is an important element in a society of VERY imperfect people and it must be enforcable in order to protect the innocent.  That is the pragmatism that drove the US Constitution.

We need very limited government, laws and rules that enable our creativity and protect our freedoms from molestation by big government and lawless fellow citizens.  That is what the US Constitution enabled.  There is a wild animal in the subconscious of human beings and some folks have simply forgotten that without the rule of law, based on spiritual principles of individual freedom under law, human societies degenerate into "Mad Max" scenarios where roving bands of thugs rule by force.   To some degree that is what you have got/ are getting behind the mask of business as usual anyway, but if it is not confronted it will further degenerate, perhaps eventually  into "personal anarchy" for everyone.  Then see if you still like that alternative when you have to share it with violent juvenile coke swillers who don't respect your desire to govern yourself.   Yes there are better alternatives to business as usual.  But not without standing up to the abuse of power and taking back your legal protections.  From that position of security you can then change anything else you want.  Without it, you may find the noose so tight that you become impotent to change anything and just have to wait for the fury of the hurricane to blow over.  That could take many centuries and many personal incarnations.

Re: Ron Paul for President?

So far the only criticism that I've read about RP is that he is a xenophobic bigot because of his stand on immigration.  Yet, the good news is, from all that I've gathered he has yet to claim Jesus as the national security advisor.  I do not want another religious nut-in-chief in the White House.
Would some Christian apologist please share how Bush/Cheney's axis of blood for God and oil have demonstrated the Christian values of compassion, love, and charity?
Does Obama's genetic link with Cheney give him the same pre-conditioning to dare make him think that the middle east belongs to the US and launch us into more death and debt?
Do we spend our last dime for weapon technology while the earth suffocates from it's debris?
Do we toss the Constitution because Jefferson was a Deist and hide under the umbrella of the Patriot Act to protect us from the axis of evil while the people who enacted it are the ones who funded the evil doers?
If we rid ourselves of corporate America, neocons, and the Christian ayatollahs who will replace them?  I shudder to think.
Is it too late to re-evaluate values or are we to weak to think?
Yea, I know why bother when we have the the new episode of Whoremerican Idol to escape to.  Or do we just live it up until the last oil drop and then when society collapses just say, "it is God's will and yippie, heaven will be great!"
For now I will give my sympathy vote for Ron and the philosopher gods.
If someone wants to preach to me about Jesus, Joseph Smith, Mohamad, Osiris or what the C's have to say, don't bother. I'm on to the next chapter.
Perhaps, I'll create a datamine to datamine the datamine.

148

Re: Ron Paul for President?

Pamelajean wrote:

"He must have just fallen off a turnip truck" is an old saying which gives reference to a person being "naive".

The word "naive" (as explained in Webster's Dictionary) means:  "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment".

Ok, so your are saying I am naive.  Why because I have hope for the future? I never said it would be easy. Is the answer to become complacent P. cause thats what it sounds like your saying.

What do you see happening with the PTB in the future? Do you any hope for the future whatsoever?

149

Re: Ron Paul for President?

Not directed at me but I couldn't resist:

Piece_ofnothing: "Do you {have} any hope for the future whatsoever?"

After the cataclysm, life on Earth will begin anew. First the cleansing must commence. Then hope for a new way of life will be forged from the fires of pain and despair. We have had nearly 3000 years to be accepted into the galactic community but cannot get over our fear of each other. By way of racism and violence the human race has remained quarantined on Earth to settle our angers and differences. Yet even after 3000 years we hate, kill, maim, murder and destroy with proficiency and joy. Our fate is sealed. The apocalypses is about to commence. Good luck and God Bless.

Hyperdimensional Blogging

150

Re: Ron Paul for President?

Yaye I love apocalypses !! Oh wait I sure hope I dont Die AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH