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Noble Realms Forum is now closed. It will remain online as a searchable archive of posts spanning 3/25/04 to 2/22/08. Members may still log in to use email functions, but there will be no further posting activity. Thank you to everyone who has contributed over the years. - Tom/montalk

#1 2007-06-13 05:20:42

mandalis
Guest

Freemasonry is not evil

it's a charitable fraternity to build a better world ...  people that denounce Freemasonry as evil are evil themselves by spreading ignorance and prejudice ...

Here is a famous quote from Nazi Germany ...

First they came for the Jews, and I didn't stop them because I wasn't a Jew ...
Next they came for the Freemasons, and I didn't stop them because I wasn't a Freemason ...
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't stop them because I wasn't a Catholic ...
Finally they came for me because there was no one else left ...

Stop blaming organizations and cultures as scapegoats for greed ...

 

#2 2007-06-13 09:56:13

Adama
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

If people gather and create bounds and frienships, they will protect each other.

If people close their meetings to other infleunces, they will become narrow minded and limited by their own beliefs.

If a group recruits only among people who have strategic positions in the society or are "high class" people, they will become elitist.

Take that three ingredients and you have a group of people who are protecting each other, are narrow minded and elitist.

If you want to build a better world, you need other ingredients.


If you are a member of them, you don't have a clue about what's going on in the highest degrees of your order. If you do, then tell us, we are open to hear you.

I have personal experience about this group, I can tell you they are centerd on their own interests, not the poor nor the widow.

 

#3 2007-06-13 12:37:39

psychopractor
Member
Registered: 2007-05-20

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but I read recently that the Freemasons in Australia are having a bit of a panic because the younger generation couldn't give two hoots about joining a semi-secretive boys club to the point where they were advertising etc.

Though emphasis varies from lodge to lodge, I suspect (I don't know, I am not and never will be a Mason) most lodges these days have dropped the esoteric element and they have become more of a social club for businessmen. But then that is enough I guess for favouristism etc. Another problem of being associated with a group of people is that an individual tends to be judged on the actions of the group (not all members of the group would have the same stance on issues) and also the group is judged on the actions of an individual (a bad apple).

Is Freemansonry evil? I'm not sure. Does it provide opportunities for those inside the club? Absolutely. Which is no different than if I attended the local church or having 10 zillion myspace friends or even this board. It's about networking and who you know. But the Freemasons have an agenda right? So does this board...it's about alternative information etc etc etc. I'm not for the Freemasons but if you want to run around in an apron and make a cube out of a piece of rock then that's fine with me. My dad used to tell me when you reached 33 degree (or whatever) that you find out you've been worshipping the devil ALL THIS TIME!!! Argghhhhhh! Oh Noes! I'm sorry but it's IMPOSSIBLE to do that. Worship is about energy and intent. It's like telling a Hari Krishna all these years he's really been worshipping a teapot.

Actually I take that back. Freemanonry is not evil. No organisation is evil. Only individuals within an organisation. And within any organisation there's a whole spectrum of personalities and moralities.


brain BAD! heart GOOD!

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#4 2007-06-13 16:26:02

belljar
Member
Registered: 2006-08-21

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

Tell that to the children used in their underground rituals. Give me a break! The fact that they also do everything they can to keep knowledge away from people and use it to control you is another nail in the coffin. I can see how some people would want to be one and idolize them because they are so powerful. Evil is something that is out of balance well they are that.

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#5 2007-06-13 21:29:56

montalk
forum-keeper-upper
Registered: 2004-03-25
Website

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

The more you learn about freemasonry, the more you view might flipflop on it. The mainstream person thinks it's just a men's club. Then if you get into conspiracy literature, you paranoidly perceive it as the ultimately source of evil in this world. Then when you read up on what it stands for, like say the Manly P. Hall books, you realize it is actually an esoteric charitable organization dedicated to the upliftment of mankind. Then when you learn about occult jurisprudence, how the matrix infiltrates and subverts nodes of power and influence, and have some personal experience with freemasonry, it will then dawn on you that what started with good intentions has been taken over by both physical and nonphysical negative forces with vested interests in gaining soul-level control over initiates. If you don't believe me on that last point, then good luck finding out the hard way.


Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

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#6 2007-06-13 22:28:07

druid
Member
Registered: 2006-08-06

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

True freemasonry will blossom in the future - it will guide our development of moral techniques (Keely motor, etc.)

But right now fremasonry is but a fossil, a hollow nut. Freemasons are kept in the dark, and their initiatiions are prechristian, so they are non-christians, so they are used by anti-christian and anti-human forces.

Now anglo-saxon culture (involving masons) is a bringer of death to the world.

In the future, freemasonry will guide us to finding back the immortality and Tree of life, brought by the recovery of the Lost Word.

But this will be a truly spiritual freemasonry, not ceremonial magic.

some freemasonic lodges in California base themselves on anthroposophy. This is only the beginning.

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#7 2007-06-13 22:55:30

mandalis
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

Adama wrote:

If people gather and create bounds and frienships, they will protect each other.

If people close their meetings to other infleunces, they will become narrow minded and limited by their own beliefs.

If a group recruits only among people who have strategic positions in the society or are "high class" people, they will become elitist.

Take that three ingredients and you have a group of people who are protecting each other, are narrow minded and elitist.

If you want to build a better world, you need other ingredients.


If you are a member of them, you don't have a clue about what's going on in the highest degrees of your order. If you do, then tell us, we are open to hear you.

I have personal experience about this group, I can tell you they are centerd on their own interests, not the poor nor the widow.

while in Europe. Freemasonry has been somewhat elitist, quite the opposite is true in America ...  Freemasonry does not recruit and is open to anyone whom asks, except atheists ...  you don't have to be well-to-do and usually the opposite is the norm ...

I am a thirty second degree mason, and I am from a blue lodge that is over a century old and has many well known thirty third degree masons among the membership ...  the blue lodges are the core of the organization that form the first three degrees, a Master Mason is a third degree mason, and usually meet twice monthly in the small buildings you may see around town ...  the higher degrees are conferred at reunions that happen twice a year and take the form of biblical plays that are preformed for members only, and many of which are exceptionally boring ...  imagine getting there around 7:30 AM and spending eight hours watching various blue lodges from around the area performing the plays, it can be quite a long day ...   nobody does the degrees in order, so once you have seen the thirty second degree you are a thirty second degree mason ...  different jurisdictions perform different degrees, and some of them have been modernized, there is one that takes place during world war 2 ...  personally I find them really boring and I am a little young for that crowd so I usually only show up to blue lodge when I have time ...

the principals of Freemasonry are quite good however and I do believe that it is the origin of both the common law and trial by jury, however there is no real evidence of this ...  what Freemasonry really is at it's core is an ancient hazing ritual designed to keep men from fighting over women, hence no women are allowed in the lodge because men act differently when women are around ...  also, historically lodges were places where members of different religions could come together and discuss things in private without worrying that what they said would be repeated ...  Freemasonry is the reason why the founding fathers fought to protect all religions of all cultures ...  Freemasonry leaves no name and seeks no reward, the northern jurisdiction gives over a million dollars a day to various charities and does not publicize these efforts ...

 

#8 2007-06-13 23:04:50

mandalis
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

psychopractor wrote:

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but I read recently that the Freemasons in Australia are having a bit of a panic because the younger generation couldn't give two hoots about joining a semi-secretive boys club to the point where they were advertising etc.

Though emphasis varies from lodge to lodge, I suspect (I don't know, I am not and never will be a Mason) most lodges these days have dropped the esoteric element and they have become more of a social club for businessmen. But then that is enough I guess for favouristism etc. Another problem of being associated with a group of people is that an individual tends to be judged on the actions of the group (not all members of the group would have the same stance on issues) and also the group is judged on the actions of an individual (a bad apple).

Is Freemansonry evil? I'm not sure. Does it provide opportunities for those inside the club? Absolutely. Which is no different than if I attended the local church or having 10 zillion myspace friends or even this board. It's about networking and who you know. But the Freemasons have an agenda right? So does this board...it's about alternative information etc etc etc. I'm not for the Freemasons but if you want to run around in an apron and make a cube out of a piece of rock then that's fine with me. My dad used to tell me when you reached 33 degree (or whatever) that you find out you've been worshipping the devil ALL THIS TIME!!! Argghhhhhh! Oh Noes! I'm sorry but it's IMPOSSIBLE to do that. Worship is about energy and intent. It's like telling a Hari Krishna all these years he's really been worshipping a teapot.

Actually I take that back. Freemanonry is not evil. No organisation is evil. Only individuals within an organisation. And within any organisation there's a whole spectrum of personalities and moralities.

membership has been on the decline since the 50's ...  claims like sodomy and devil worship were brought about by ecclesiastical authorities at various times when they sought to enrich themselves at the expense of Freemasonry ...  for instance, when the lodges wouldn't kick out the protestants during the refromation, the vatican excommunicated all Freemasons and this was not overturned until the nineteen fifties ...  the thirty third degree is honorary, given to people that have volunteered a lot of time to the organization, and usually conferred in mass once a year to several candidates in a hotel or other public facility ...

 

#9 2007-06-13 23:22:06

mandalis
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

belljar wrote:

Tell that to the children used in their underground rituals. Give me a break! The fact that they also do everything they can to keep knowledge away from people and use it to control you is another nail in the coffin. I can see how some people would want to be one and idolize them because they are so powerful. Evil is something that is out of balance well they are that.

so have you any personal knowledge of this or are you just repeating what you heard on the internet?  of course you wouldn't mind seeing all Freemasons rounded up for guilt by association without any evidence of crimes just like Hitler or Saddam Hussein did ...  your apathy and willingness to denounce others without any evidence is much more evil than what you claim about Freemasonry ...  if any Freemason touched a child in the wrong way they would not be looked upon kindly by Freemasonry ... 

while the rumor is that Freemasons receive preferential treatment by the criminal justice system, again the opposite is quite true ...  if you are pulled over by a Freemason cop and you try to pimp Freemasonry to get preferential treatment, expect the cop to write the ticket immediately ...  if you are accused of something more serious and get a Freemason judge, expect to have the book thrown at you ...  Freemasons pride themselves on their integrity, and will zealously defend it against the bad apples that bring disrepute upon the fraternity ...

there are no real secrets in Freemasonry as the secrets are the handshakes, secret knocks and passwords and whatnot that identify members of the various degrees ...  Freemasonry is not particularly powerful in this day and age ... particularly during the revolutionary war, many people of the time were Master Masons and hence Freemasonry was part of the foundation of America ...  today, it's not as lucrative a networking organization as the rotary club ...

 

#10 2007-06-13 23:27:25

mandalis
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

Kato3 wrote:

I was musing today about the rampant thought forms of fundamentalism no longer held within the pretty containers of religious sects or secret brotherhoods instead spilling all over the place. The law of attraction that belies the foundation of this increased radicalism outside the usual lay lines is fear I suppose, Fear of letting go, surrendering to the void, to the current of pure potential awareness that sits outside of our linear minds, outside of time and space, and outside of our egos feeding frenzy looking for inflation by being “right”, (dreading deflation, being wrong, shrinking from anything that is not of the polarity festival world of the mind).

I was musing about the pool of Love waiting for my surrender to it, waiting for me to use my free will to release the pull of my ego, to relinquish any need to be identified, to play that I am part of the herd, a voice in any chorus, a member of a forum, separate from that which I interact with…my question is never what is evil or good, but how do I contribute to the illusion of polarity? Where am I a seal barking for attention or stealing energy by playing mind games in theories of absolutes? What part of me is fed by such pursuits? I guess I don’t have many answers today, just some questions. Lyrical masturbation, more fun/satisfying in a voyeuristic atmosphere?

Speaking of sea mammals and public masturbation (hows that for pulling a post together?) I was at the Vancouver aquarium not so long ago and there were these three little sea otters in a tank swarmed by all these kids hanging around watching them and aloof parental units orbiting but not present or engaged enough to see that within the tank two of the little buggers were totally violent, trying to off each other, biting, drowning, kicking, punching, it was hysterical how violent they were and the third bigger more alpha dude was masturbating for the crowd, with one foot in his little mouth to accent the depravity. I later bought a magnet with a picture of the three looking innocent and child friendly. I keep it on my fridge a constant reminder that the world is full of things that have sponsoring energy that does not match the face they show the world.

so your implication is that Freemasonry is really evil while trying to look good?

i think you masturbate mentally and obviously smoke too much of the BC grade herb up there in vancouver ...  try spending the extra money and getting some of the good stuff from Oregon ...

 

#11 2007-06-13 23:36:18

mandalis
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

montalk wrote:

The more you learn about freemasonry, the more you view might flipflop on it. The mainstream person thinks it's just a men's club. Then if you get into conspiracy literature, you paranoidly perceive it as the ultimately source of evil in this world. Then when you read up on what it stands for, like say the Manly P. Hall books, you realize it is actually an esoteric charitable organization dedicated to the upliftment of mankind. Then when you learn about occult jurisprudence, how the matrix infiltrates and subverts nodes of power and influence, and have some personal experience with freemasonry, it will then dawn on you that what started with good intentions has been taken over by both physical and nonphysical negative forces with vested interests in gaining soul-level control over initiates. If you don't believe me on that last point, then good luck finding out the hard way.

hp lovecraft wrote in a story about how the old Freemasons hall was taken over by the followers of Dagon ...  your point about how Freemasonry may no longer be exclusively a fortress of good but a battleground of good and evil is true of every organization on the planet today ...

I initially joined Freemasonry with mixed opinions as my catholic family is very prejudiced against Freemasonry, however I have always been a very big history buff and was intrigued that all of the revolutionary war veterans were Freemasons ...  I have been a Master Mason for eight years, and still remain quite the iconoclast ...  Freemasonry is all about the hard way, yet has only helped my soul by providing a moral compass with which to circumscribe my actions ...

 

#12 2007-06-13 23:42:28

mandalis
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

druid wrote:

True freemasonry will blossom in the future - it will guide our development of moral techniques (Keely motor, etc.)

But right now fremasonry is but a fossil, a hollow nut. Freemasons are kept in the dark, and their initiatiions are prechristian, so they are non-christians, so they are used by anti-christian and anti-human forces.

Now anglo-saxon culture (involving masons) is a bringer of death to the world.

In the future, freemasonry will guide us to finding back the immortality and Tree of life, brought by the recovery of the Lost Word.

But this will be a truly spiritual freemasonry, not ceremonial magic.

some freemasonic lodges in California base themselves on anthroposophy. This is only the beginning.

Freemasonry has nothing to do with religion, it is about charity ... it only bars atheists because they are not considered good for their word ...  it's more like courtroom drama and has nothing to do with ceremonial magic ...

what you are talking about is not regular Freemasonry but what is called clandestine Freemasonry ...  it is why Freemasons get a bad reputation when groups like yours pretend to be Freemasons and confuse everyone else ...  personally, I think that clandestine lodges are guilty of impersonating the real organization, it would be like if you went door to door raising money for the rotary club when you have nothing to do with the rotary club ...  the lodges you speak about have nothing to do with Freemasonry ...

Aleistar Crowley, whom was denied membership in regular Freemasonry because of his hedonism, joined a clandestine lodge in Mexico and then claimed to 'discover' the lost word, when the whole point of the lost word is that it is lost and cannot be discovered ...  what you are talking about it nothing new, and brings disrepute upon regular Freemasonry ...  the lesson to be learned is, beware of cheap imitations ...

Last edited by mandalis (2007-06-13 23:43:12)

 

#13 2007-06-13 23:45:52

ShineOn
Member
From: above the center ring
Registered: 2006-10-27

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

A 32nd degree mason still dwells in the land of the profane my friend. To become a 33rd or beyond you must be a second or third generation mason preferably with an Eastern Star spouse or have celebrity status. Until you've reached 33rd degree you'll know nothing of the inner workings and ancient origins of the group. They operate under a cloak of charity and always have. Unfortunately sub 33rd degrees means you're a dues paying worker bee who will never see your queen. And the reason they don't want atheists is they figure if you've fallen for one soul binding lie you're fully prepared for another. I do know that 98% of masons are well meaning and feel they contribute greatly to their communities, unfortunately it's a subset duping.


" The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it "

Ayn Rand

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#14 2007-06-14 01:48:39

Truth Minion
Guest

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

mandalis wrote:

i think you masturbate mentally and obviously smoke too much of the BC grade herb up there in vancouver ...  try spending the extra money and getting some of the good stuff from Oregon ...

Ad hominem attacks are not where it's at when trying to discuss the Truth.

Some people say that Israel is evil.

One wonders why would Masons put so much symbolism in their "supreme" court then:


http://www.planetquo.com/Illuminati-Des … t-Building


"You shall know them by their fruits."

 

#15 2007-06-14 04:00:19

druid
Member
Registered: 2006-08-06

Re: Freemasonry is not evil

According to Steiner, manicheism is the great progenitor of freemasonry.
manicheism holds a still greater secret than rosicrucianism.

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