196 (edited by nexus 2008-02-18 08:00:21)

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

Poffo wrote:

Hey nexus, I'm not sure if you've read the Law of One series or have just picked up bits and pieces here and there....so I'll post this excerpt from session #47:

Ra wrote:

Questioner: In our esoteric literature numerous bodies are listed. I have listed here the physical body, the etheric, the emotional, the astral. Can you tell me if this listing is the proper number, and can you tell me the uses and purposes and effects etc. of each of these and any other bodies that may be in our mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. To answer your query fully would be the work of many sessions such as this one, for the interrelationships of the various bodies and each body’s effects in various situations is an enormous study. However, we shall begin by referring your minds back to the spectrum of true colors and the usage of this understanding in grasping the various densities of your octave.

We have the number seven repeated from the macrocosm to the microcosm in structure and experience. Therefore, it would only be expected that there would be seven basic bodies which we would perhaps be most lucid by stating as red-ray body, etc. However, we are aware that you wish to correspond these bodies mentioned with the color rays. This will be confusing, for various teachers have offered their teach/learning understanding in various terms. Thus one may name a subtle body one thing and another find a different name.

True, one can always find different names for the same "body" but we are looking for a cogent explanation for the bodies mentioned by the questioner.  If Ra knows the different names used to describe these 4 lower material bodies and the spiritual levels of being, then some cross referencing will be helpfull.  Naming them in relation to the "Ra" scheme would help our understanding.

Ra wrote:

The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.

What kind of "unformed" material is this "chemical" body?  We are aware of 4 densities of material substance as the questioner mentioned.  Which one is it?  As noted, the esoteric literature mentions 4 material bodies which correspond to the 4 planes of matter.  Are you referring to any of these?... Astral?  Mental?  Etheric?  These are "unformed" as far as 3d is concerned, but are certainly "formed" in their relevant plane.  When speaking of "unformed" are you referring to something else?  If so, what?  You state that it is an "elemental" body without form  So it's not 3d physical but you say it's "material".  Which "material" element is it?  The mental body?  Something else?  You do give your descriptions of the astral and etheric bodies later on this page.  So is it the mental body you're referring to here?  In which plane of matter is this "unconstructed material form"?

From the information given, these questions are obvious to me.  They are formulated and they are easily answerable according to our current understanding.  Given the breadth of metaphysical knowledge available and our level of understanding, no attempt is made to explain the "unformed material body" in relation to the question about the 4 lower bodies or in relation to anything else of substance.  Only a color ray was given, so evidently it has differentiated form.  "Ra" please give us your own "simple understanding" of it, so that we may employ it in healing too.... if that is indeed what can be done.

Ra wrote:

The orange-ray body is the physical body complex. This body complex is still not the body you inhabit but rather the body formed without self-awareness, the body in the womb before the spirit/mind complex enters. This body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes. However, it seldom does so.

To my mind that was some gobbledegook.  It was circular and revealed nothing.  Statements are made which bear no relation to each other and which tell us nothing... (except a mistake eventually about the body in the womb.)  The statements only evoke questions.  Only a color is given.  Other than that we're told it is a "physical body complex", but that it is not physical.   In that case what is this "complex" in relation to the physical body or in relation to any of the 4 lower bodies or spiritual levels of being?  For that matter, what is the "complex" in relation even to the scheme you are outlining here? 

The body in the womb, "before the spirit/mind complex enters" is of couse physical.  Therefore, "Ra" mentioning that fact is of course no explanation at all about what he was talking about prior to that.  Remember?  Something about a "physical body complex" that is not physical?   "Ra's" answer was a jumble of unreconcilable concepts plus a misunderstanding about the role of Spirit in the construction of the foetus in the womb.  The body in the womb is actually formed under the direction of the christ mind (by the science of sound) according to the karma of the soul which will inhabit it.

The way "Ra" put all that, gives me the feeling that it has come from someone who is strangely obfuscating, or someone who doesn't know themselves.  These are not the worlds greatest infractions here.  But when "Ra" sets him/themselves up as way, way above us and above Jesus too then i am not convinced by statements that tell me that is so.  And that we are simply having a communication breakdown due to difficulties at both ends of the line.  My end because i'm too dim, and "Ra's" end because he is too sharp.  Communication is a divine art at which the real spiritual Adepts excel.       

Ra wrote:

The yellow-ray body is your physical vehicle which you know of at this time and in which you experience catalyst. This body has the mind/body/spirit characteristics and is equal to the physical illusion, as you have called it.

Firstly, all the "bodies" have the mind/body/spirit characteristics equal to their plane of action.  This is not unique to the physical body.  By using the word "catalyst" in relation to the physical body Ra may be speaking of a valid concept which he doesn't explain.   There are no doubt several valid ways to speak of "catalyst" in relation to the physical body.  "Catalyst" could speak of the physical experience in relation to the abrasive life experiences which force the soul to look within and externalise the living "word".... the higher- Self.  Without the transcendence of consciousness into the inner- christ (by degrees), there are no graduations (in life or death) and there is no ascension.  It's worth pointing out here that dedicated "Service to Selfers" will never accomplish the ascension as long as they live.  'Dead or alive' they will gravitate to the plane which resonates with their personal frequency vibration. (FRV)   If STSelfers don't ascend they cannot live forever.  They will continue to become less and less and they will contract until (if it hasn't happened already) the umbilical chord of spirit is cut.  It is a path of self- extinguishment.... a path of "descension" not "ascension".  The rate of personal FRV will be determined by their inner orientation and the "works" which are performed from that STS alignment.  One cannot raise the soul frequency except by the spiritual power of love.  Love will not flow through a heart which is only concerned for the little self and not for others.

Ra wrote:

The green-ray body is that body which may be seen in seance when what you call ectoplasm is furnished. This is a lighter body packed more densely with life. You may call this the astral body following some other teachings. Others have called this same body the etheric body. However, this is not correct in the sense that the etheric body is that body of gateway wherein intelligent energy is able to mold the mind/body/spirit complex.

A color is given.  Whether or not the green ray relates to the astral body as it's primary vibration is something to discover.   Obviously the colors are cited in reference to the fact that with each "body" or "density" "Ra" is acknowledging the concept of differentiation at its most fundamental.  More than that, we know that all the colors also express in each density of differentiation.... ie. in each of those densities and bodies.  We know that the white light of christ/boddhi can project any color or combination of color rays through the chakras and into any "body" it wills in any density.  For a century before the "Ra" material appeared, the metaphysics of all this has been fairly well covered. It would be a simple matter (but time consuming) to cross reference the information about basic body / color combinations. 

The astral body is only packed more densely with life if it is packed more densely with life.  The astral bodies of some are devoid of light/life.  It depends on one's inner orientation and history (STO or STS) so, whether or not the astral body is packed more densely with life, is not a given. 

Ra wrote:

The light body or blue-ray body may be called the devachanic body. There are many other names for this body especially in your so-called Indian Sutras or writings, for there are those among these peoples which have explored these regions and understand the various types of devachanic bodies. There are many, many types of bodies in each density, much like your own.

Is "Ra" speaking of a variety of individuals at each density?  Or saying that we each have "many, many types of body at each density?  Must be the former.  At all levels of existance, souls express their individuality in form, so there will be a variety of forms.  Devachan is a realm where (between incarnations) the soul experiences a "reality construct" (like a dream) which completely caters to it's expectations, instantly.  For example if the soul has beliefs and expectations which defy their manifestation on earth, they will nevertheless manifest in the devachanic world.  A lost love is re-united, a home sold by the bailiff is owned and enjoyed, a childhood desire for the company of a deceased grandparent is fulfilled, a desire to jump off a mountain and fly, granted.  These experiences are given to the soul for the resolution of desire.  A soul is more easily able to re-incarnate when their past tensions are resolved and when their innocent passions are granted an outlet of expression.  From my reading, the soul in the devachanic realm is oblivious to the fact that the experience is anything but "real".   It is a soul/mind /dream experience.   

Ra wrote:

The indigo-ray body which we choose to call the etheric body is, as we have said, the gateway body. In this body form is substance and you may only see this body as that of light as it may mold itself as it desires.

The etheric body is, as the esoteric literature has described, the highest vibrating material body.  It is at the threshold of the spiritual planes and indeed could be described as a "gateway" for that reason.  Again, because the chakra system links all the 4 lower bodies to the spiritual levels of being, all these bodies are capable of recieving the flow of spirit from spiritual planes.  Naturally we don't have to wait for death before we become more deeply aware of etheric realms.  To do so, we need to transmute the 4 lower bodies to prepare them and make them more receptive to a greater inflow of spirit.  This will awaken a deeper awareness of these bodies as their vibration is quickened by spirit.

Ra wrote:

The violet-ray body may perhaps be understood as what you might call the Buddha body or that body which is complete.

Buddha is the I AM Presence.  Atman.  Out of this level of Divine Selfhood comes all the other bodies and the chakra system which knits the 4 lower bodies together with the spiritual bodies in a seamless vessel for the soul's self- expression in matter.  All bodies are linked and constructed in such a way as they can recieve the spiritual energies which keep the whole system integrated and alive with the light of spirit.  Souls that choose the left handed path of "service to self" will not remain integrated in the flow of spirit.  By damning the flow of spirit they will eventually disintegrate. The STS path is not conducive to the flow of spirit because spirit cannot flow where there is no loving heart for others.  Spirit cannot flow through a dam.  Spirit cannot flow through a distorted, atrophied vessel.  Where there is no peace and no harmony, there is no flow of spirit, and vice versa.  Where there is no divine geometry in form there is a dam through which spirit cannot flow.  A selfish, inharmonious, distorted, loveless heart cannot be a vessel for spirit.  The STSelfer can only manifest distorted forms and an increasing sense of separation as they head for personal oblivion.

[I know that "Ra" defines all differentiations of the ONE, including ourselves as "distortions". This grates on my soul in the same way as when the catholic church calls us "sinners".  It is the same in both cases... a  curse.   We may have sinned.  We may have distortions in the lens of consciousness at outer levels of the mind.  But we are not distortions.  We are made in the image of God.  Fractals of the whole.  Describing us as "distortions" is a curse and i think it is supposed to be, no matter what the so called metaphysical justifications]

Where there is a sense of separation (as there is on the STS path) there cannot be a conscious awareness of wholeness at higher levels of reality.  So obviously the STS path cannot lead to ascension.  How can someone in such a low personal FRV "ascend" anywhere?  It is a death vibration....devoid of spirit.  A slippery slope to oblivion.  A dearth of spirit is the death of form.  Spirit is very respectfull of freewill and will not enter a "house" that has fallen into wrack and ruin.  Unless a change of heart and orientation arise in a soul, spirit will not enter in to raise it.  Those who will not change their orientation are damming the life giving flow of spirit and are self- damned to the lower worlds until they undergo a re-polarisation of orientation or until time and opportunity expire.  The reasoning that "Ra" uses to justify the attainment of the ascension for STSelfers is a luciferian lie.  It is such a deadly distortion of the truth that it simply cannot be a mistake, or a one time glitch in the channelling.  We all make mistakes as do all channellors.  I am not searching out every little mistake (to my mind) from every channeler in order to challenge it.  There are things which i would consider minor differences with some material.  For example, i don't embrace the theory of simultaneous multiple lifetimes/timelines.  While the question is of huge import when trying to describe the reality of what we are living in, it is of less importance as it relates to how we live our lives.  While i believe there are perfectly good alternative explanations for the tenets of that theory, i can easily co- exist with it  and those who embrace it.  I honestly respect our differences.

But "Ra's" teaching on Ascension is of far greater import because the advice is potentially deadly.  It is actually the original luciferian lie.  And it's justification is subtle.  As the serpent said to Adam and Eve (in the biblical allegory) when they questioned the serpent whether they should eat the fruit or not, he answered.  "Eat and be wise as God".... "You will not surely die".  Adam and Eve disobeyed the interior guide and took the word of the serpent.

Today "Ra" argues that because the "One" was once undifferentiated, then became differentiated by creating everything including ourselves, that there are now 2 valid paths to reunion with the ONE.  Paraphrased they are : 

1) "Service to self" because (after all) that's what God did before creating us.

2) "Service to others" because that's what God does since creating us.

"Ra" 'says' :  "Therefore 2 valid paths to ascension are open to you. STS or STO.
                       After all you've been through, you must now CHOOSE ONE PATH.
                       Choose STS and give it all you've got. To graduate to 4th density you must be 95% STS.
                       Or Choose STO and dedicate 51% of your efforts to serving others to graduate to 4th D."

For the "Ra" entity to boil the whole metaphysical teaching down to this false choice is tragic yet revealing.

It is a lie and the reason is quite this simple :

True, we are all ONE in God at inner levels.  Because of that, we are serving the greater SELF when we are serving others.  This does not mean serving the "little self" at the expense of others.  No.  We are serving the WHOLE by serving the differentiated parts of the whole... ie. others.  Those who focus on serving their individual self at the EXPENSE of others will not ascend.  They will extinguish themselves until their options dwindle down to the worst possible choices...... soul death or exile in the lower astral worlds.  Then soul death.  Those who align themselves with the lower astral entities in order to set themselves up as the power elite in this world (in STS systems of control) will eventually find that they are the minions under astral forces in the astral plane.  Stripped even of their humanity.  STS is a path of contraction and death.  Conversely, STO is the path of expansion, ascension and immortal life. (Because the heart is expanded in concern for others).

I wrote in the previous post that the "Ra" scheme has some good science (i meant metaphysical cosmo- science) but that it is poorly applied to the bigger picture. ie... God; the evolution of the soul; the ascension and the dispensations of hierarchy etc.  I see now that even the cosmo- science is wonky as well as the way it is 'fitted' into the bigger picture.

To summarise what "Ra" said about the 7 bodies/densities:

1) Red ray body      = Chemical body but is not physical.  Made of "unconstructed material"
2) Orange ray body = Physical body -"complex" ... not the body you inhabit.  Not physical.
3) Yellow ray body   = Physical body
4) Green ray body    = Astral body
5) Blue ray body       = Devachanic body
6) indigo ray body     = etheric body
7) Violet ray body      = Buddha body

This also appears to be quite a departure from what has been given from other sources.
Which one is the mental body?  Is the mental body too difficult to name or describe?  And the Christ self or Boddhi?  The Causal body?   And what exactly is the non- physical "chemical body complex"?  Or the non- physical "chemical body" ?  Could these oblique descriptions really be the mental body? or the Christos? Or the causal body?  Couldn't be.  [While the names of the "bodies" are actually less important than accurate descriptions, it is the lack of accurate/realistic descriptions , and the obvious cross referencing that that woul allow, that i see as the problem here].

Ra wrote:

Each of these bodies has an effect upon your mind/body/spirit complex in your life being-ness. The interrelationships, as we have said, are many and complex

"Ra's" description of these bodies is having an effect on my mind/body/spirit complex.

Ra wrote:

Perhaps one suggestion that may be indicated is this: The indigo-ray body may be used by the healer once the healer becomes able to place its consciousness in this etheric state. The violet-ray or Buddhic body is of equal efficacy to the healer for within it lies a sense of wholeness which is extremely close to unity with all that there is. These bodies are part of each entity and the proper use of them and understanding of them is, though far advanced from the standpoint of third-density harvest, nevertheless useful to the adept.

"Ra's" concept of "harvest" is not to be confused with real "Ascension".  Whatever the concept of 4th density is (in the Ra scheme) it is difficult to say by looking at his chart above.  He is definitely saying that it is not etheric.  Is it merely a (dubious) "graduation" into the astral realm?  It appears so.  After all, "Ra" is saying that the proper use of the etheric body and the inner Buddha (the I AM Presence) are reserved only for the Adepts.  And that, that (communion with higher levels) is too far advanced for us.  Are we only to concern ourselves with this so called 4rd density "harvest"?  It appears that is what "Ra" is saying.

Again.... Is it just co- incidental that the very etheric and spiritual levels of being (I AM Presence, etc) which are essential to the attainment of the real Ascension are virtually written by "Ra" as unattainable?  Of course it is no co- incidence.  Once again, an essential reality, essential to the attainment of the ascension of the soul into the I AM Presence, is downplayed as something to be unconcerned with....  Something beyond our current concern at least.  Perhaps later?  Maybe after "graduating" into the astral? (which actually is the next closest density to earth)?  Perhaps never?


Poffo wrote:

I'm not saying that either what Ra or you have said is absolutely correct, but I thought it might be interesting to post the relevant material straight from the source as it pertains to what you have just written about.

From what I can tell, the density you "occupy" is only a reflection of the development of your soul in a linear way.  Of course Creation is not linear but linearity is a seemingly necessary aspect of the lower material realms regardless, and fulfills the nature of the illusion in that it allows us to "grow up" and progress through "time".

True, but if we take the advice of "Ra" we can't do much progressing.  We only need the time and space  in order to work out how to externalise the inner levels of spiritual being.  Only if we accomplish that in this physical body can we progress beyond the necessity to re- incarnate here on earth again.  To transcend that need we must start to become familiar with Christ and Buddha within.  That is what this great opportunity (this wave) is all about.  It comes from within or it doesn't come at all.

Poffo wrote:

I think it's only about where the focus of your soul is in it's journey back to unity.  Ultimately you do inhabit all densities simultaneously, but for the sake of the illusion we place ourselves in the one that is most comfortable for the maturity of our linear developing soul.  So, I think we can also say we inhabit 7 bodies  as well as 7 densities of awareness.  Just as we are only temporarily experiencing 1 or several densities (3d containing the 2nd and 1st) it seems we are usually only aware of 1 to a few of our "bodies".

True, it is definately about the focus of your soul in it's journey back to unity.  But if you focus your soul on the path of STS there will be no unity.  If the focus is on STO then that is a fine start.  But that is not a guaranteed formula for ascension. It sounds to me like a path that could get very mechanical and calculating.  Constantly checking oneself to ensure that more than half of one's efforts are spent in STO.  The path of the ascension of the soul to spirit is not a mechanical path.  The soul must seek and find the "kingdom of God" within.  Finding that consciousness, the soul must learn to BE that Presence and to be lead by it in all things.  That means that the soul must become aware of spiritual levels of being, not just a "few levels" of being at once.  Don't sell yourself short.  This current opportunity is that dream come true.  You can find that inner kingdom at the heart of your inner being.  And that can lead to the ascension of your soul to spirit.  That is why Jesus said "seek and ye shall find".  It was no idle wish.  He knew it was going to be possible at this time.  The "Ra" prescription for "density graduation" is a pale facsimile of that glorious opportunity for Ascension which has been prophesied for so long.

Poffo wrote:

BTW, I'm very interested in reading your STS ascension "debunking"....don't keep us waiting too long!

I've adressed the issue here to some extent but i have also talked about it yesterday on the other ascension thread (on page 3 of) "What we must do to Ascend" by Pamelajean, and in various other posts over time.

nexus wrote:

Many facets of the Ra "scheme" are demonstrably wrong and to my mind, it is for one of two reasons.  Ra is not who Ra says Ra is and Ra knows it.  Or Ra is a being / group with valid scientific information about the creation and physics of matter, but is all confused about the fundamental nature of deeper cosmic truths that "fit" that information into the greater scheme of soul evolution.  The science is great.  The theoretical application of that science to the greater scheme (God; the soul; evolution; ascension and hierarchy's dispensations relating to it) is erroneous.

When i said "science" i meant the cosmo- scientific or metaphysical knowledge.  After reading about "Ra's" densities and bodies, i wonder if it is that good.  And all the UFO stuff is concerning.  It's not that i don't believe UFOs exist (i've seen a real one) it's just that i don't trust them.  They are not charged by hierarchy with the mission of spiritual teacher to humanity.   So the question of who they are and what they're trying to do here is open.  We can each come to our own conclusions by studying their message.  As you know, the message gives me no comfort.

Poffo wrote:

To me Ra is FAR from confused about the deeper cosmic truths as any in-depth reading of the material would show.  The reason why their words are so technical is because of the "distance" between 3rd and 6th density (where they say they are from).  A good analogy would be of a human trying to teach a rock how to use a hoola hoop.  The truth that is commonplace for them is only beginning to be grasped by the self-awareness of humans and so the communication barrier remains vast.  And as we know as humans, even speech, writing (and all other media for that matter), as advanced as they have become,  fail miserably to transmit the TRUE mental concept and emotional feeling intended.

I also commented earlier about the 'difficulties' "Ra" has in communication.

Poffo wrote:

As far as the option of "Ra is not who Ra says Ra is and Ra knows it" goes.....I just can't see that as being true.  It is possible but very unlikely.  After reading the series 3 times I have yet to find any trace of STS philosophy or actions on their part towards the channeling group.  If anything they attempted to explain as close as possible the nature of the interplay between both polarities and how to more effectively respond to STS attacks (or "greetings" as they termed it) with tough love.  If they were truly looking to misrepresent their true nature I think there would be a lot more evidence throughout the sessions, especially considering the STS tendency to be overconfident in their plan of action and most often forgetting to tie up a lot of loose ends to avoid detection by discerning minds/hearts.

With the distortions i have pointed out in the "Ra" material it is clear they want people re-incarnating.  That is a self- serving agenda.  In almost every attempt like this you will fine a high degree of truth.  The truth is always a re- presentation of what has already been released by the real hierarchy.  Sometimes some of it is simply wrapped in different jargon to appear brand new.  Much of the "Ra" material is not.   Bold untruths are often declared (like "UFO occupants founded every major religion in history") and outright deadly distortions usually appear as the 'piece de resistance'.  i described what i see as the sting in the tail.  To my mind, there is too much wrong with this material to accept it as a guide to higher realms.  Is "Ra" also saying what some others are about a "photon belt" we/the earth is supposed to be passing through at this time?  Be careful about getting hung up on 2012.  Can you tell me in a nutshell (you know, like i do) what "Ra" has to say about 2012 in relation to "ascension"?  Cheers Poffo.

197

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

nexus....after careful consideration I've realized that there are so many confusions coming from each of us (me, you, and Ra) that it is almost impossible to layout coherently.  You left me a mountain to climb but I have yet to even locate my sherpa guide for the trek!  wink

The issue of the various bodies is one I've struggled with ever since I became aware of them and especially since I have had the pleasure of combing through various interrelated sources which mesh and clash in varying degrees. Your questions have forced me to figure a bunch of things out for myself, and believe it not I'm thankful for it.  The funny part about this multi-thread back-and forth between you and I is that it is showing me a lot about myself on top of making me probe deeper into certain questions which you raise which raiser further questions in me.  This has been an embarassingly humbling experience and I thank you for acting as catalyst. 

When I make/find time to break it all down and build it all up again I'll post my findings in the the Noble Dreams forum.  Until then you're just going to have to wait! smile

I apologize for any anguish this has caused you and wish you the best of "luck" (no such thing!) on your further seeking adventures.  You sure know how to push my buttons and I sure know how to let you.  I ponder why this is so and realize the foolish and Foolish natures of both of us. We're a good match, you and I! tongue

zenden, sorry for messing with your thread.  Keep on doing what you do!

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

just sittin back.  cruising along.  cleaning, thinking (not alot) and watching and observing.    nice pic on the other thread by DanB.  actually, quite bitchin' oh luminous ones.   just cruisin'.  no worries Poffo babe.  theres no messing with "my thread"--its all for us to muse on and discover and probe.  we catalyst each other=chrysalis.  back to silica, crystals, magnetics, repulsion, compulsion; from repelling and being compelled.   all rolling along in good ole'  (YAWNS, makes faces, snorts, spits, cackles...)  3D.  yep.

GNOTHI SEAUTON "Know Thyself!"

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

i thot i saw this the other day and i did.  so i will put it here.  it probably wont do much for anyone, but i read it, i see it, and if u look, u can see it, if u want to.  of course, its from the Ra channelings.  it reminds me of when i take care of ppl.  wearing dreadlocks, having 19 piercings in one ear lobe.  having tatoos.  swear alot, look big and bold, and make no apologies for it.  when i tell ppl the simple remedies they couldve done for themselves, to end their pain and sufferings, diagnosing them and coming up with treatments that are short, and sweet and hit the target in minutes, i can feel it that they dont believe me.  its too simple, too quick, too real, too uncomplicated.  i tell them the truth.  its cheap.  it doesnt require lots of medicine, lots of tests, MRI's, CT scans, sets of XRays, specialists, stuff they think they need and want, ad infinitum.  the package they see is messed up to them, out of the norm, they need proof.  proof what i say will work.  and they havent even tried it yet, but theyve been in pain and sick for days. she doesnt look like she knows.  other 'doctors' dont look or sound like this.  she couldnt possibly be right, or know anything.  my god, they think, the source its coming from.  its suspicious.  were going to need proof.  we will need proof that it will work.  of course, the priniciples behind the proof are rock solid.  the priniciples.  the proof theyre looking for is in the principles.  i dont know if believing in my remedies and their doing them will lift their vibratory rate.  thats a little off kilter here, but all the PRINCIPLES are there.   theyre time proven, methodology proven, and when i tell them what to do and how it will work, i lift my vibratory rate.  and thats about all i know.  in helping them, i help me. 

this wont end or even detour the Wilcock/Ra/Bible sources discussion debate.  i dont plan on that happening.  its an angle to view it from.  and u realize that these channelings,  are the stylized talk of an oversoul group.  a merged identity.  and one not sanctioned by officials.  not sanctioned by an official organization.  we here on NR arent even an official organization (or are we?)  and about the anyone who'd sanction us is us.  however, there r many websites that refer to us here, and link to us so i guess we could say were sort of an unofficial official organization, of seeking souls.  we look at all the info.  some we like better than others because it speaks, it speaks often deeply, and that triggers a knowing in some.     

"This is an important function of our mission -- to offer Truth without proof.  In this way, the motivation will, in each and every case, come from within the individual.  In this way, the individual vibratory rate will be increased.  An offering of proof or an impressing of this Truth upon an individual in such a way that he would be forced to accept it would have no usable effect upon his vibratory rate."

since the whole point of being here, no matter which way one slices the cake, is for promotion of soul development.  for many reasons, one of which is vibratory rate.  thats a principle.  some do and dont even agree with that.  but many do, and how they swing it, how one does it, how one goes about it, who one listens to, how and who one believes, is all up to the individual.  nevertheless, to develop the soul.  said many many times in a zillion ways.  still, all the same.  always, however, the principles of THAT remain rock solid.  thats what we need to be looking for.  how the principles resonate.  now, when the principles differ, the debates roll on.  one would have to agree on principle firstly and lastly.  what resonates with giving life and hope and does not dominate or seek to control is a a nice rock solid principle to go from.  what speaks in gibberish, is circular, repetitive, and leads to deception in order to impose control is not so good.  however, it is a principle itself.  so, overall, there isnt going to be any proof.  no proof of who is right and who is wrong, and who or what shall i follow?  up to the soul.  in principle.

GNOTHI SEAUTON "Know Thyself!"

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

It must be heart-rending to want to help someone and they resist simply because of outer appearance or methods they deem to be unorthodox. 

As to Ra, Pleiadeans and the like, I can only recall that I have been told that for me to truly understand a thing, I must become it.

I came across this in the text of Purucker.  "One of the most fascinating teachings of the Esoteric Tradition is that which deals with the interlocking and interworking and interblending hosts of lives which, as above said, not only infill any one Universe, but in point of fact are that Universe. Yet -- and this is a point of the first importance -- any such Cosmic Hierarchy or Universe, considered as a unit in the Boundless All, has its own characteristic swabhava or individuality, the all-permeant, intelligent, Life-essence which pervades and inspirits every part and division of such a Hierarchical Unit, and which, therefore, for such Hierarchical Unit is the Oversoul thereof,"

I'm coming to realize that he refers to galaxies as universes.  The human life-wave has its own characteristics, its own essence, essential being.  Obviously, I didn't put forth anything conclusive, so I'm not on some anti RA or Pleiadean rant. 

I just think there might be something to derive for consideration in that quote that I pasted above.  I simply wish I knew what it is.  Somebody answer that phone!!  big_smile

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

201

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

It's all cool Poffo.  The best to you too.  And thanks Zenden for appreciating the relevance of our discussion on this ascension thread.  I was ready to argue the point if you didn't  cool

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

Tom Paine wrote:

Antaeus, I doubt if anyone can explain that quote from Prurucker,
whoever the heck he/she/it is.  That's because it sounds like
gibberish, and doesn't really add anything meaningful to this thread.
Merely posting an unintelligible quote onto a thread does nothing
but obfuscate and cloud the issues at hand.
Sorry but that's how I read it.
TP

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Which proves you know nothing of Buddhism even though you never hesitate to be critical of it.  While at the same time, you criticize people who speak out against Aleister Crowley, with your logic being that they know nothing of his teachings, texts, articles, etc., which means you have learned the art of speaking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.  Did you go to Yale majoring in jurisprudence by any chance?

I only indicated that I didn't know the meaning of the quote in a manner of getting somebody's feed back on what their opinion of it is.  I didn't feel I was attacking zenden at all, as it was not my intention to.  You can be sarcastic and lecture me all you want.  You only diminish your validity.  I really don't want you to do that to yourself on my account.

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

Pamelajean wrote:

Purucker was a student of HBP.  He disagreed with some of her philosophy (which was, IMO, clear as mud as well as a bad interpretation of true Buddhism).  Everything she wrote and he wrote (after he separated himself from the Theosophical Society and HBP) was muddled and meant to be intentionally confusing and impossible to understand without sweat and blood. And, even then, fragile.

I attended the Theosophical Society for a while.  The members could never agree as to what HPB was saying EXACTLY and they had studied her stuff for their lifetimes.  When something was finally thrashed out and everyone agreed what it meant, a text of 950 pages could have easily been condensed into 30 pages of comprehendible theory.  For some reason, she (and he) felt complexity was cool.

I’m not out to offend HPB followers here, but she was ANYTHING but a spiritual person.  She was gruff, rude, smoked cigars, cussed like a demon, and had little regard for even her most devout followers and students.  She was egotistical and probably set spirituality back tremendously, intentionally taking it down a mired path from which no follower evolved.  This is not to say that she didn't possess true esoteric knowledge, she just didn't share it accurately.  True Buddhism is simple to understand.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK.  That is a very intellegent and reasonable statement.  How is he making what is complex, complex?  when it already exists as a thing which is complex?  Not many people want to involve themselves into physics either, or astrophysics, or calculus, algebra/trig, quantum biology.  When the subject is concerning our unfolding from within ourselves, that which is the spiritual and then onto the Divine First Cause, why do you think it can be condenced or abridged into 30 pages? 

As an aside, I find that when I have been immersed in his writings trying to comprehend it thoroughly, I find that I understand things a bit easier, that are in different area's of my life, i.e., the  not very apparent underlying causes behind an individuals behavior, or even trying to interpret the wiring diagram on a particularly complex appliance that was manufactured by Raytheon or GE.

It is interesting that many people, and I'm not directing this at you, only many people in general, and how they see their physical body and the aspect of consciousness which is most closely tied to this physical phenomenal material plane as the 'root' and are seeing their spiritual and divine aspects as some distant goal outside of themselves, when in reality, we are in our physical bodies, the most far reaching out-posts on fringes or frontiers with very weak lines of communications with our source.  I think that many people, even being aware of this fact, still have this truth leave them quite often.  This is how the mayavic mind and physical body take action in extreme ways so quickly.  By not deferring to the source, first.

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

G. de Purucker was born in 1874 at Suffern, New York, son of an Anglican minister who later served as chaplain of the American Church in Geneva, Switzerland.  There he was educated in private schools and by tutors, specializing in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek in preparation for the ministry.  However, subsequent study of the early Church Fathers, Eastern philosophies, and Sanskrit led him to theosophy with its broad comprehension of all religions, philosophies, and sciences.  Dr. de Purucker was head of the Theosophical Society from 1929 until his death in 1942. Perhaps his greatest contribution to spiritual thought has been his elucidation of the writings of H.P. Blavatsky. 

As far as criticism of the behavior of H.P. Blavatsky is concerned, well, I'm kind of getting old and seeing the things I have, I've come to a conclusion that people who can reach higher states don't really have to walk around acting like a little angel all the time.  If I was capable of reaching the level where angelic forces are, or gods, or dhyani-chohan, all the same thing in appropriate and varying characteristics, being an emanation from the divine, I wouldn't be in an appropriate state of being while I'm at work doing what it is that I do and mingling with the people that I do.

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

Well, OK.  You mention some common sense logic.  I would just add that the average American, maybe not the average, but anyway, the education received in the time period of say, the late 19th century to just before the First World War, was a hell of a lot more extensive than an American of the '60's '70's 80's etc., to the point that a holder of a Doctorate of philosophy would not even be able to pass college entrance exams of a graduating high school senior.  The Sanskrit and Thibetan language was  immensely more proficient in describing, or illustrating the teachings that they were passing down to their chela's or vatou's.  Disciples, postulants, aspirants, what have you.  With our inadequate English language, the necessity of complexity existed in attempting to adequately explain that which is actually older than Buddhism or the Sanskrit religions. 

I don't know how to address the elitist remark, except by referring to the fact that hierarchies within hierarchies exist and is actually what REALITY, THE UNIVERSE is in its totality.  Since there is no seperation, everything that exists in one place exists in another.  What it is that an individual can unfold within themselves to be their dominating characteristic is up to each individual but is also possessed of possible limiting factors such condition and state. 

There are simple precepts to abide by.  Precepts to live.  So as far as not wanting to endeavor at acheiving an IQ of 200, and still be on an upward path to the Divine, these precepts can be found in many religions of the Earth and are worthwhile.  I for one will certainly not condemn any of them.

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

206 (edited by Pamelajean 2008-02-12 02:17:44)

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

And who was the interpreter that immaculately translated ancient, hidden and far eastern language (which is composed of innumerable dialects)?  Who was that master that spoke fluent Russian and fluent ancient Tibetan?  I think the translator should have told us what Lamas said instead of HPB doing it.  I cannot believe that you expect me to swallow that the ancient Tibetan language was directly and articulately translatable into Russian (HPB's first language).  Maybe you feel HPB went to Tibet, taught herself the language and then translated it verbatim into English (which I don’t think she even spoke at that time) and did so in an itty bitty amount of time.  I tend to think it would have taken her a few lifetimes to have mastered the language to the extent of being able to translate esotric teachings accurately.  She traveled to Tibet and in a few easy months learned (via translation) what turned out to be thousands and thousands of pages of texts?  You think?  Please? For heaven’s sake, even the Bahagavad Gita is easy to understand. She did not PROPOSE her teachings as a possibilities, she stated them as being fact.  There is no basis for this as Channeling is NEVER unpolluted.

I did not say all of her info was inaccurate. What I said was HPB was overly complex and needlessly so, AND it doesn't take much to send students off in the wrong direction (which I cannot help but feel was intentional on her part).  As far as the precepts, they can indeed be found in many religions as you call them.  I prefer the word Beliefs over the word Religion as the Tao along with Buddhism are considered as such.  The Tao (which is the laser of truth) is astoundingly simple, easily understandable and thus available to all.  The Tao truths are known and practiced by the indigenous peoples in languages that aren’t even written. 

You really didn't address her reasons for shooting her teachings well over the heads of 99% of the population, but please don't because I'm done with this topic. It’s become an energy drain on my monad.

Wait, she did come across clearly to Hitler. 

http://www.livingstonemusic.net/hitlerandtheoccult.htm

Hitler founded far more than a political regime - the Third Reich was an Occult-based Order using Magical and Esoteric practices. Everything which defined the Nazi Party was Magical. From the Swastika to the Order of the SS, all elements were driven by Esoteric teachings. Inspired by the occult writings of Helena Blavatsky, Aleister Crowley, Eliphas Levi,

Does Aleister Crowly qualify as a constructive spiritual teacher?  He was naughty like Helena, so I guess he does.

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

zenden wrote:

Q: (L) Who were the 'Followers of Horus?'
A: Those who held the 3rd "insight."
Q: (L) What was the third insight?
A: There are 10. The 3rd involves transcendental existence.

Is anyone familiar with the 10 insights?

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

Well, I haven't reached a definite conclusion or personal judgement of Crowley.  He certainly possessed verve.  I certainly will not defend Hitler.  At the end of WWI he was suddenly a man that was homeless and pennyless, in a war that Germany did not win because we entered.  There were claims made that Germany would have won, and simply let things go back to the way they were prior to the war.  I question our motives for entering into it.  Also, to simply name one result of our entering into it, I would mention 60 million deaths from a flu pandemic that originated here in the good ole U S of A.

I'm not going to delve into names of the men responsible for English/Sanskrit transliteration.  My stance on Theosophy is described pretty much the same way Ghandi described his association with it:


The influence of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society was particularly strong in India and Ireland, where several branches were opened during the 1880's. The group of artists and intellectuals who promoted the Irish Revival--most notably Yeats and AE--held meetings at the Dublin lodge. Theosophical teachings, which argued for the essential oneness of all religions and the omnipresence of divine spirit, seemed to hold a certain attraction for young Irish intellectuals looking for a cosmic solution to the intractable political and cultural problems bred by England's colonization of Ireland. Similarly, Gandhi in his autobiography emphasizes the fundamental importance to his early thinking on matters both spiritual and political of the Theosophical Society and the books it made available to him. The Theosophical Society still has its international headquarters in Adyar, and operates lodges all over the world. Several groups have splintered off from the original TS, and organized alternative lodges.

http://www.victorianweb.org/religion/theosophy.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pamelajean wrote:

And who was the interpreter that immaculately translated ancient, hidden and far eastern language (which is composed of innumerable dialects)?  Who was that master that spoke fluent Russian and fluent ancient Tibetan?  I think the translator should have told us what Lamas said instead of HPB doing it.  I cannot believe that you expect me to swallow that the ancient Tibetan language was directly and articulately translatable into Russian (HPB's first language).  Maybe you feel HPB went to Tibet, taught herself the language and then translated it verbatim into English (which I don’t think she even spoke at that time) and did so in an itty bitty amount of time.  I tend to think it would have taken her a few lifetimes to have mastered the language to the extent of being able to translate esotric teachings accurately.  She traveled to Tibet and in a few easy months learned (via translation) what turned out to be thousands and thousands of pages of texts?  You think?  Please? For heaven’s sake, even the Bahagavad Gita is easy to understand. She did not PROPOSE her teachings as a possibilities, she stated them as being fact.  There is no basis for this as Channeling is NEVER unpolluted.

I did not say all of her info was inaccurate. What I said was HPB was overly complex and needlessly so, AND it doesn't take much to send students off in the wrong direction (which I cannot help but feel was intentional on her part).  As far as the precepts, they can indeed be found in many religions as you call them.  I prefer the word Beliefs over the word Religion as the Tao along with Buddhism are considered as such.  The Tao (which is the laser of truth) is astoundingly simple, easily understandable and thus available to all.  The Tao truths are known and practiced by the indigenous peoples in languages that aren’t even written. 

You really didn't address her reasons for shooting her teachings well over the heads of 99% of the population, but please don't because I'm done with this topic. It’s become an energy drain on my monad.

Wait, she did come across clearly to Hitler. 

http://www.livingstonemusic.net/hitlerandtheoccult.htm

Hitler founded far more than a political regime - the Third Reich was an Occult-based Order using Magical and Esoteric practices. Everything which defined the Nazi Party was Magical. From the Swastika to the Order of the SS, all elements were driven by Esoteric teachings. Inspired by the occult writings of Helena Blavatsky, Aleister Crowley, Eliphas Levi,

Does Aleister Crowly qualify as a constructive spiritual teacher?  He was naughty like Helena, so I guess he does.

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

Mage: The Ascension
by White Wolf
A Storytelling Game of Modern Magic

The closing of a millennium is at hand.
We have been cruched in a vice,
Trapped between rigid law and black chaos.
All we have wrought with magick is forgotten.

The Technocracy,
Rational
Resolute
Ruthless
It rules the crystalline earth
And suffocates us in webs of steel.

The Marauders,
Unknowable
Unpredictable
Unholy
They rule the outcast reals
And drown us in ceaseless discord.

The Nephanandi,
Damned
Diabolic
Destructive
They rule the nethermost voids
And constrict us within the Wyrm's coils.

We have failed to the heal the growing paradox
Our timid tinkering has won us little ground
But perhaps you will not fear to strike firmly
To wield the full force of your fury,
Perhaps you will battle them as we could not...
Perhaps the time has come.

Re: Magnetics and Ascension

Auscastian wrote:
zenden wrote:

Q: (L) Who were the 'Followers of Horus?'
A: Those who held the 3rd "insight."
Q: (L) What was the third insight?
A: There are 10. The 3rd involves transcendental existence.

Is anyone familiar with the 10 insights?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Sephirothal Tree of Life?  Olam haq-Qeliphoth?  Ten attributes and characteristics? Ten Angels or Sephirah? Energies, forms, substances?  Intellect, ideation, creativity, archetypal.  Within my limitation, I see the 3rd insight as Love and Mercy.  Maybe it's the control of energy.  Or both of the last two.  Chesed, Gedulah.  I've seen the sephira known as Binah, called Understanding, most often, and Chesed called Wisdom.  On occasion however, I've seen Binah called Wisdom.  I think the latter is incorrect.  I see the feminine as possessing an intrinsic intuitive understanding.  Whereas the male possesses wisdom or gupta vidya.  The male can peer into that which frightens the female.

The above is how I would just jot down a bunch of content and then attempt to arrange it into a cogent context.  I'm foregoing the latter.  This shell is going to r+r now. Adieu

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------
You have to believe in the impossible in order to become.