• From: The one whirl
  • Registered: 2005-12-15

Topic: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

Gravity?

This is the question that's been on my mind recently.  It seems so strange and unique compared to the electro-magnetic forces which we tend to understand relatively well by comparison.  We live with this all pervading force surrounding us, yet we know little of it's nature. 

The work of T.T. Brown (biefield-brown effect) makes me believe that gravity is a manifestation of the electrostatic force.  Could this be a direct correlation?  This seems too simple.  If it was this simple, I would think physicists would have picked up on this after all these years.  True, this experiment is little known, but it doesn't seem hard to replicate in regards to the decreasing weight of a charged capacitor.  I would think even a conspiracy of human and hyperdimensional means would have a hard time hiding this fact if it indeed true.  Perhaps not though? 

As a comparison, light was considered an entirely separate energy manifestation than electricity until Faraday and Maxwell put the pieces together to show that both were really a different manifestation of an electro-dynamic force.  Perhaps physicists just haven't done the right experiments yet to see this with electrostatics and gravity?  Perhaps trying to merge gravity and electromagnetism in a purely theoretical sense (i.e. string theory) is useless without a proper understanding of physical reality grounded in experimental evidence.  Without meaningful inputs, one cannot have meaningful outputs.  Or as computer programmer would say, "crap in, crap out". 

It seems to me there might be a few ways to test the correlation between gravity and electrostatics. 

1.) We know that gravitational lensing effects are observed from astronomical data.  Could one replicate this effect in the lab using high voltage capacitors of a transparent dielectric substance?  I'm curious if anybody has ever attempted an experiment like this?  I would think a high potential would bend a polarized light beam, but maybe not. 

2.) Is there a relationship between planetary ionosphere and mass?  There must be data available in this regard to make some sort of a quantitative comparison.  I would think that there should be a direct correlation between the overall number of atmospheric ions and planetary mass.

3.) Experiments measuring electric potential from an elevated surface to the ground.  This is the same idea as Tesla's radiant energy system where he puts a periodically discharging capacitor between an elevated conductor and the ground to harness electrical energy.  I wonder if this experiment could be performed in that absence of light hitting the conductor's surface.  This would negate any possibility of the potential being a product of the photoelectric effect.  If we do see a potential difference then this could be another clue.

Another thought along these lines is the concept of scalar waves.  Could these be correlated to gravitational waves?  There is little research that I know of in both of these areas.  Most of the information on scalar waves I've found comes from Tom Bearden, who I have a difficult time following.  Gravitational waves were originally predicted by Einstein in General Relativity theory, but it seems most physicists don't have a clue as to how to study these judging from the LIGO project and such things.  They're looking for gravity anomalies that take place in distant binary star systems.  I would think that the phenomena could be studied much closer to home.  The Russian physicist Kozrev observed something similar (identical?) in his experiments to scalar waves and did an amazing job of analyzing them.  He concluded that these waves were not bound by the speed of light and manifested in a number of irreversible or entropy-increasing processes.  He was even able to measure the true position in the sky of stars with his devices! 

One paper I read recently compared gravitation/electrostatic/scalar waves as a longitudinal motion through a structured lattice-like vacuum or aether, whereas light would be a transverse motion though the same medium.  The lattice would be something like a connected pattern of nodes hypothetically separated at intervals of Plank's length.  This would mean that there would be 3 basic types of energy manifestation (the "trinity" for those metaphysically oriented wink.  Energy from a transverse waveform (i.e. light, EMF), longitudinal waveform (i.e. gravity waves, electrostatics, scalar) and the potential of the medium itself.  This is essentially Maxwell's idea of an "elastic medium" where lines of force pervade.  In this view, the speed at which a longitudinal waveform travels need not be the same as the speed at which a transverse waveform travels.  In other words, gravitation waves could travel many times faster than the speed of light.  This seems to be a big confusion to modern physicists who believe that gravitation waves cannot travel faster than the speed of light.  I would argue that it has to be much faster because otherwise planets wouldn't stay in their orbits as the sun followed its path through the Milky way.  We should be seeing large deviations in orbits for some of the outer planets if gravity had to travel at light speed, which simply isn't the case. 

A structured vacuum medium with potential also has implications regarding Free energy systems.  If it can be shown that such a medium does exist, then in theory one could extract energy from its potential through some sort of resonance system. 

Tom, I'm sure you've pawed over some of these thoughts before based of what I've read from your work.  What is your opinion in regards to the possible electrostatic nature of gravity and how this relates to scalar waves?

Thanks,
Ryan

Doc: Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
Marty McFly: Yeah, I know, I got a real problem with that.

plasticportal's Website

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

This subject of gravity has been on my mind as well. Heavy stuff smile

1.) We know that gravitational lensing effects are observed from astronomical data.  Could one replicate this effect in the lab using high voltage capacitors of a transparent dielectric substance?

Reminds me of the Flux Resonator for viewing the vector potential fields of magnets. Don't know how it works, but I have a hunch it's related to what you're talking about.

Dielectrics can bend light anyway... if exposed to a high voltage field, you'd have to rule out mechanical stresses in the dielectric altering the light path. Interesting experiment though. If light were to bend for the same reason it does around stars, then within the dielectric there would need to be an extremely strong gravitational field. So strong, that I doubt the dielectric or the lab would stay intact.

If you had a device there merely created a gravitational potential field without an associated gravity force field (analogous to having a uniform voltage field without electric field) then you could intensify it without getting sucked in. Space-time would be altered within it, and that alteration may very well bend light.

Remember John Titor? He had a photo, probably fake but interesting nonetheless, of a laser beam bending around his time machine.

I saw a video of Stan Deyo where he mentioned a toroidal coil he had built that through timed pulses rotated the magnetic domains in the coil's ferrite core. It increased the angular momentum of the atoms without theoretical limit, but eventually it did snap and according to Deyo momentarily warped light around before I guess burning out. The residual energy field contaminated the lab for some time.

2.) Is there a relationship between planetary ionosphere and mass?  There must be data available in this regard to make some sort of a quantitative comparison.  I would think that there should be a direct correlation between the overall number of atmospheric ions and planetary mass.

Hmm, I was thinking about that today actually. Read somewhere about ionospheric current, the charge that leaks between ground and ionosphere. As you know from T.T. Brown, a high voltage parallel plate capacitor generates a gravitational thrust when charged. Ground and ionosphere form such a capacitor, but the question is how much of the gravity we experience is attributable to this.

Also, there might be another electrogravitational phenomenon involving currents converging spherically towards a common center, which also produces gravity. I was thinking that the ionospheric currents (in the order of a few microamps per square meter) summed over the surface of earth would make for some might current. But I don't know what comes first, earth gravity inducing ionosphere or vice versa, or both being independent but contributing to gravity overall. Also this calls into question what HAARP is doing to the ionosphere...I figure it may have to do with manipulating gravitational potential in spots around the globe to facilitate hyperdimensional tinkering of reality.

I think there might be a relationship between the mass and rotational rate of a planet and its magnetic field. This is based on some theories about what gravity is, and what happens to that when it twists due to rotation. Maybe something similar relates to the ionosphere...not sure there.

Experiments measuring electric potential from an elevated surface to the ground.  This is the same idea as Tesla's radiant energy system where he puts a periodically discharging capacitor between an elevated conductor and the ground to harness electrical energy.  I wonder if this experiment could be performed in that absence of light hitting the conductor's surface.  This would negate any possibility of the potential being a product of the photoelectric effect.  If we do see a potential difference then this could be another clue.

Sounds like you're referring to the method shown in Tesla's patent #685957 "Method Of Utilizing of Radiant Energy." The patent explains it is powered through the photo-electric effect. Well, not explicitly, but it does say the plate is charged with particles streaming from the sun, x-ray tubes, or other ultra-violet sources. Unless Tesla was using a plausible cover and his device works just as well for tapping longitudinal waves. But in the patent, the plate is elevated only to intercept the rays and stay insulated from the ground.

There is still the natural electric gradient in the atmosphere to tap, and Tesla's device could work just as well for that if the conductor is raised high enough. It's no secret to modern science that this electric field exists, and any conductor elevated far enough would act as a constant lightning rod, bleeding off the charge.

Another thought along these lines is the concept of scalar waves.  Could these be correlated to gravitational waves?  There is little research that I know of in both of these areas.  Most of the information on scalar waves I've found comes from Tom Bearden, who I have a difficult time following.

My best guess is that longitudinal waves and gravitational waves are the same thing. But longitudinal waves in what? Longitudinal electric waves, longitudinal magnetic waves? No, as far as I can tell that is impossible. But longitudinal waves made of magnetic vector potential is definitely possible and follows from the math. The math is what adds backbone to what would otherwise be speculation, but it sucks that without knowing some college level math the lock stays closed. Bearden's equations are logical if you can read them, but more than anything I think his terminology needlessly obscures things that can be easily rephrased in simpler ways.

The term 'scalar physics' is supposed to denote physics that deals with all the stuff mainstream technology leaves out, but it should be renamed "potential physics" because what mainstream technology does not work with is potential fields. There are two main potential fields, the electric scalar potential (voltage) and magnetic vector potential (basically something like ether momentum). The first is a scalar, the second a vector. Yet even the second remains hidden from use by mainstream technology, so it falls into the same realm of exotic science Bearden talks about despite technically not being a scalar field.

Energy from a transverse waveform (i.e. light, EMF), longitudinal waveform (i.e. gravity waves, electrostatics, scalar) and the potential of the medium itself.  This is essentially Maxwell's idea of an "elastic medium" where lines of force pervade.  In this view, the speed at which a longitudinal waveform travels need not be the same as the speed at which a transverse waveform travels.

I agree with you. Even in stones, transverse vibrations and longitudinal vibrations travel at different speeds, so why might the same not hold true for the ether? I believe that the work of Maxwell is all one needs to unify gravity with electromagnetism, that the problem is not with inventing new mathematics but recognizing in what's already been accomplished that certain terms actually represent gravity, that the secret has been hiding in plain sight since 1863.

wrote:

I would argue that it has to be much faster because otherwise planets wouldn't stay in their orbits as the sun followed its path through the Milky way.  We should be seeing large deviations in orbits for some of the outer planets if gravity had to travel at light speed, which simply isn't the case.

If the sun along with the planets are traveling together in one direction at uniform velocity, then among these there is a single reference frame that might as well be stationary. Like if you and I were in a spaceship traveling at half the speed of light, because relative to each other we are essentially stationary the velocity of the ship does not affect what happens between us. A beam of light between us would be neither slowed nor bent relative to us. So the interaction between sun and a distant planet is equivalent to both being in a stationary frame if both are whizzing through the galaxy at equal net velocity.

One objection I heard is that if the speed of gravity is limited to the speed of light, there would be a difference between from what direction a planet "feels" the force of the sun and the actual position of the sun, which causes problems, so the conclusion is that gravity travels faster than light. Well, it might but that reasoning is false because the gravity field of the sun is circularly symmetric, and thus it is everywhere along the orbital path at once... there is no gravity wave propagating outward to hold a planet in place, rather it's a stationary distortion that requires no propagation to begin with. Now, if the sun suddenly shifted its position, there may be a time lag before the planet is affected, but the orbit itself does not depend on waves, just the stationary field.

A structured vacuum medium with potential also has implications regarding Free energy systems.  If it can be shown that such a medium does exist, then in theory one could extract energy from its potential through some sort of resonance system.

That's right. When one of Brown's gravitators is charged up, it generates thrust and thereby produces kinetic energy whose increase does not come with a proportional decrease in energy stored in the capacitor. This shows that the potential difference merely pries open the gates and lets in an unending flow of energy from the vacuum.  Resonant systems can only tap this if the thing vibrating interacts with the vacuum energy - in other words, the vibration has to be gravitational in one way or another. There could be many methods to produce gravitational vibrations using various configurations of electric, magnetic, or potential fields.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

3 Reply by plasticportal (edited by plasticportal 2006-09-15 20:01:11)

  • From: The one whirl
  • Registered: 2005-12-15

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

Wow, you've definitely given me plenty of food for thought.  I'm going to have to review this some more.  Sorry if some of these comments got out of order below.

I'm in the same quandary regarding the ionosphere and its relationship to gravity.  Which generates what?  It seems like the classic chicken and egg problem.  Or are they both a manifestation of a magnetic dynamo process like you described?  Perhaps a structured aether wouldn't rule out the possibility that all three phenomena could produce similar potentials?  I don't know.

Another possible clue I found today discusses the relationship of certain plasma structures to inducing gravity.

http://www.goodfelloweb.com/nature/cgbi/index.html


"Plasma structure can evolve into a helical flow composed of two separate streams, one consisting of electrons and the other of protons. The structure maintains a stable shape that can best be described as a cross between a smoke ring and a coiled spring turned in on itself.(7) When considering induced gravity, it is significant that electrons and protons can organize into separate camps, because like particles of the same charge repel one another."

and later on it states,


According to Dr. Anthony Peratt, who is involved in plasma research at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, Nobel Prize laureate Hannes Alfven believes that gravity results when electromagnetic forces neutralize each other.

When you talked about spherically converging electric currents relating to gravity, it made me think of that last part that I just read today.  Interesting! 

I kind of wish I had $300 to blow on one of those "flux resonator".  That thing looks rad! :-)  I'd like to see what sort of fields are coming out of my computer right now.  Then again... maybe not :-/

You're right.  Dielectrics do bend light with or without applied voltage.  I was thinking of the possibility of observing bends of greater or lesser values when subjected to a high voltage potential.  You're right, a high enough potential would destroy the dielectric, probably before you'd see anything measurable.  I was thinking of something analogous to the Faraday Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_effect) where a polarized beam of light rotates in the presence of an aligned magnetic field. 

I don't know if you've read this paper from blazelabs, but it seems to touch on some of the same things mentioned here:  http://www.blazelabs.com/f-efield.asp

The paper points out something kind of ironic.  One of the simplest electrostatic experiments in physics, where a charged comb attracts uncharged bits of paper, cannot be explained with the electrostatic force equation F=q1q2/(4piEr*r2).  In theory there should be no attraction because the 'q' for the paper is 0, therefore F=0.  The answer has to be explained based on the polarization of the dielectric (the paper in this case).  Seeing this, I understand exactly what you mean about these clues hiding in plain sight.  That’s kind of what I’ve been thinking all along.  Sometimes I’m amazed at how people in high academic positions ignore the obvious.  I’ve tried explaining some of this stuff to family members who hold PhDs in various science fields and regardless of how I explain it, nothing seems to get through. 

Have you ever considered writing a sort of primer for the terminology out there in regards to some of this?  Granted, some of it requires a bit of math background, but some of it is just semantics.  The terminology has really confused me since I started looking at this material.  It doesn't help that just about every supposed unified field or aether theory makes up new terminology as well.  Throw in some new mathematics and you've really got a party!  It's sort of like putting together a giant jigsaw puzzle - which is why it can also be so much fun!  :-)  It would be nice if someday we could describe all this phenomena directly in terms of a hyper dimensional aetheric structure... Hmmm...

Heavy stuff indeed!

Thanks,
Ryan

Doc: Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
Marty McFly: Yeah, I know, I got a real problem with that.

plasticportal's Website

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

plasticportal wrote:

Another possible clue I found today discusses the relationship of certain plasma structures to inducing gravity.

http://www.goodfelloweb.com/nature/cgbi/index.html

From the link:

"It is my contention that when plasma particles of the same charge interact within a unified magnetic field, they fly apart leaving non- space in their wake. The 'nothing' left behind is a rip in the fabric of mass/energy/space and gravity is induced without a corresponding quantity of mass."

Moving charged particles constitute a current. Charges flying apart equals a diverging current (if the charge is positive), and as far as I can tell that alters the local ether concentration and therefore alters the local gravitational potential (aka time rate).

I kind of wish I had $300 to blow on one of those "flux resonator".  That thing looks rad! :-)  I'd like to see what sort of fields are coming out of my computer right now.  Then again... maybe not :-/

May detect alien implants too!

I don't know if you've read this paper from blazelabs, but it seems to touch on some of the same things mentioned here:  http://www.blazelabs.com/f-efield.asp

That's a good site, I have it linked from my site because the folks running it are creative and discerning yet open to fringe science. According to the article, nonlinear or asymmetric electric fields make for electrogravity. I totally agree. There are two ways to make it nonlinear: have the field spread out  converge, or have it stretch of compress over distance. The latter requires a nonlinear dielectric.

Check out the works of Alexander Frolov, a Russian scientist who seems to know what he's doing. Particularly, what Jean Naudin replicated, a device called Frolov's Hat.


I’ve tried explaining some of this stuff to family members who hold PhDs in various science fields and regardless of how I explain it, nothing seems to get through.

I know what you mean. Of all the faculty I had ever interacted with in and out of class, I'd say no more than a fourth of them had anything more than a computer between their ears. Computers accept no inputs that exceed the parameters of their programming. I realized that only natural geniuses and nimble robots make it to the top, and the geniuses are very rare. What  makes them genius us that they truly intuitively and creatively understand what they do. The others understand enough to apply and analyze, but not create and revolutionize.

Have you ever considered writing a sort of primer for the terminology out there in regards to some of this?  Granted, some of it requires a bit of math background, but some of it is just semantics.

I did here and there, but nothing that ever ended up on my site or the forum. But yeah, you might find this helpful:

http://montalk.net/scalarvector.gif

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

5 Reply by montalk (edited by montalk 2006-09-18 17:20:00)

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

I corrected the diagram so that the scalar view of the longitudinal field (panel 7) and vector view of that same longitudinal field (panel 8) correspond to each other.

To clear up any ambiguities, I'll elaborate on what was only briefly summarized in the diagram. Much of the following is what you'll find in any standard physics textbook. I think the following covers the ABCs of the kind of physics discussed on this thread, and also talked about by Bearden.

Note that the vector field points opposite the direction of increasing change in the scalar field. This was intentional, since the electric field (E) is the negative gradient of the electric potential (V). Same holds true for the gravitational field (g) and gravitational potential (G):

E = - grad (V)   (grad means "gradient of...")

                                 units: [E] = Volts/meter and  [V] = Volts
g = - grad (G)   

                                 units:  [g]=meters/second^2 and [G] = meters^2/s^2

For instance, a positively charged sphere will have electric field lines pointing away from it while the direction of increase in voltage is toward the sphere. With gravity, field lines point inward to the center of mass, while gravitational potential increases outwardly. By convention, gravitational potential is a negative value and an increase means it gets ever closer to zero with distance. [interestingly, if you sum up the gravitational potential of all mass in the universe, you get a value equal and opposite that at the Schwarzschild radius of a black hole].

Magnetic and electric fields are higher order expressions of potential fields, which are more fundamental. The relation between electric field and potential was shown above. Magnetic fields (B) are also functions of a potential field known as the magnetic vector potential (A).

B = curl (A)   (curl means "vorticity of...")

                       units:  [b] = Webers/meter^2    and  [A] = Webers/meter

Magnetic fields arise from vorticity in the vector potential (A). For instance, if (A) circulates counter clockwise on your computer screen, it associated (B) field points out of the screen.

But the vector potential (A) itself is a function of something even more fundamental, and it turns out that the electric potential is a function of that same thing. This thing has no name that I'm aware of, so I'll just call it the scalar superpotential (X). Relation is like this:

A = grad (X)   
                          units:  [A] = Webers/meter  and  [X] = Webers

V = - time rate of change (X)   
   
                          units: [V] = Webers/second, or equivalently Volts

Everything above you can find in Maxwell's 1863 theory of electromagnetism, so this stuff has been (or should have been) known for at least 140 years.

The scalar superpotential is measured in units of Webers, and Webers are units of flux. Magnetic fields as we know them are measured in flux per unit area which relates to the density of vorticity in the vector potential. What this means is that even in the absence of a detectable magnetic field (where curl of (A) is zero) there can still be a vector potential field that exhibits subtle effects on matter. For instance, electrons going through such a field will undergo a phase shift in their quantum wave functions (look up the Aharonov-Bohm effect). This is one example of exotic physics, because conventional technology neither detects nor employs vector potential fields.

So in the diagram when I say "uniform field" I mean one whose scalar values are constant throughout the defined space, having no gradients or curls of gradients. And when I say "curl-free field" I mean a vector potential that has no vorticity, and thus no magnetic field.

And lastly, in case anyone with formal math training objects to B = curl [ grad (X) ] due to the fact that the curl of a gradient must be zero, keep in mind that is only true for a simply connected region. The value of scalar superpotential is not simply connected as it contains a discontinuity. The Weber value for this scalar flux is relative and not absolute. For instance, the equation for scalar superpotential of a magnetic dipole includes as a multiplicant the spherical coordinate angle PHI - meaning that the scalar superpotential value has an artificial discontinuity between 0 and 2PI that is solely the product of the coordinate system used, and this discontinuity then leaves a residual upon taking the gradient that makes for a nonzero curl.

How does this relate to longitudinal waves? Well, like this:

              grad [ div A ] = (1/c^2)  d^2/dt^2 A

          (gradient of the divergence of A = reciprocal of light speed squared
                multiplied by the second time derivative of A.)
                           
This is your typical wave equation, relating the compression and expansion in (A) over distance and time. Very similar to sound waves in air, except this is about "ether." You can see this illustrated in panel 8 of my diagram. Longitudinal waves are mathematically permissible if consisting of scalar superpotential or magnetic vector potential, but not allowed for magnetic or electric fields.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • Registered: 2006-09-19

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

plasticportal wrote:

...I kind of wish I had $300 to blow on one of those "flux resonator".  That thing looks rad! :-)  I'd like to see what sort of fields are coming out of my computer right now.  Then again... maybe not :-/

∞ I find your discussion very interesting. What if I would give you one of my resonators for you to experiment with? All I ask in return is for you to post your experiments and conclusions here or any other site you visit ∞

pinestone's Website

  • From: The one whirl
  • Registered: 2005-12-15

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

Tom,

Thanks for putting that together.  It's helped clear up some of the confusing terminology for me.  Some of this I recall from my days of taking physics, but it was never taught in a unified way.  It would only make sense that the magnetic and electric fields should originate from a common potential. 

More on gravity...

I started investigating some of the push gravity theories.  They seem interesting in that they tie together a lot of anomalies that have defied explanation by conventional gravity theories. 

http://www.topology.org/sci/grav.html
http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-intro.asp

For those unfamiliar with the push gravity concept, the main idea is that there possibly some high frequency (>gamma) radiation of some sort that acts on celestial bodies in all directions.  We experience gravity as a shadow effect of large masses that block all or some of this radiation.  The analogy holds because shadows obey the inverse square law just like gravity.  So when we're standing on earth we're shielded from the pressure of this radiation from the bottom by the mass of the earth, but not from the sky which is why we notice the force towards the earth. 

This explaination is used to explain why planets larger than earth typically have measured masses proportional to the cross-section of their area rather than their volume.  Maybe the missing mass is what’s hiding in the middle?  They also claim that it explains why the old Voyager craft have slowed down significantly since leaving the solar system.  I still need to do more research on these claims. 

This could theoretically explain the biefield-brown effect in the sense that the gravitational "push" could be an electromagnetic force of some kind, maybe the longitudinal component of a traveling EM wave?

The question remains though, what would the source be of such a radiation and why does it defy detection by conventional means?  Does it exist as an EM wave above the gamma frequency range or is its waveform completely longitudinal?  Does this imply that gravity is limited by the speed of light if it has an EM component? 

Not only that, but where would such a radiation originate from?  Is it similar to the cosmic background radiation that mainstream science claims is the leftover radiation from the "big bang"?  That's a whole other topic, but personally I don't buy the argument that this microwave background radiation is left over from the "big bang".  The fact that it can be detected as coming from all directions in space and is isotropic to a large degree seems to indicate a different sort of phenomena.  If the big bang had left this radiation in its path, then we should expect to see gradations of this radiation from the center to the outward edge of the universe.  The cosmic background radiation is to low a frequency and strength to be the cause of gravity, obviously, but it could provide a clue as to how a radiation can be evenly distributed or isotropic so as to have an equal pressure/push on all matter. 

Things to ponder...

Ryan

Doc: Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
Marty McFly: Yeah, I know, I got a real problem with that.

plasticportal's Website

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

Thanks for the link to the EMRP Theory. I read it once but just went back to read it again more deeply. It proposes that transverse electromagnetism is responsible for gravity, and that the longitudinal component is just the Poynting vector which does indeed point in the direction of wave travel and oscillate at twice the frequency of the wave. Hmm, well the Poynting vector cannot exist by itself, it must have the transverse components from which to arise. So it would be cool if the EMRP theory could account for true longitudinal waves that don't have any detectable transverse components at all, and if these exist, then perhaps these longitudinal waves may be another possible mechanism behind gravity.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • From: The one whirl
  • Registered: 2005-12-15

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves


Session 970607

Q: Well, then I said: If the varieties of waves of the EM spectrum are unstable gravity waves, then they could be added
together which could arrive at some total factor of electromagnetism, which then, if reversed, would express the existence
of gravity?
A: On the right track, or "rail" as in "railgun."

Interesting. 

A while back I read the paper on Longitudinal forces linked to in your notes section http://lunahelia.com/resources/Longitudinal.pdf  BTW, thanks for posting this link under your research notes!

In the paper they use the EM railgun experiement as an example of longitudinal EM forces.  I believe they calculated that the longitudinal forces would be above and beyond the force needed to deform the rail in a railgun experiement.  So what does this have to do with gravity then?  Perhaps the force of gravity has to do with those little known longitudinal forces? 

This somewhat coincides with the EMRP theory in that the longitudinal component of EM waves could cause gravity.  When I first read the EMRP theory, I was a bit troubled by his explaination that this longitudinal force can only exist with a transverse component even though no transverse component has ever been detected.  He explains the reason we can't detect these transverse waves is because they are way above gamma radiation in frequency.  I'm with you, I don't buy it.  He's making too many assumptions in this theory that aren't testable, but the basic premise that gravity is caused by longitudinal forces feels right.   I'm still of the philosophy that the universe must communicate with itself in some instantaneous manner.  There must be a mechanism of instantaneous communication.

On a side-note, it's amazing how many physists will go to extreme lengths in their explainations to show that some pet theory doesn't break causality.  I got that sense while I was reading the EMRP theory.  I'm also reading Milo Wolf's space resonance theory (http://www.quantummatter.com/articles/t … neous.html), where he goes to similar lengths to show that causality cannot be broken.  I feel that the concept of causality is rooted in 3d earth perception, which may not be the correct perception!  Those of a more metaphysical background understand this, but most physicists get stuck at this point.

Milo Wolf does have some interesting ideas on gravity.  He's all about explaining matter as an interaction of two spherical scalar waves moving in opposite directions about a center point.  Apparently he has the mathematics to prove that this is a possible solution to Schrodinger's equation.  I'm not of a strong enough math background to evaluate his work though. 

The main idea is that the scalar IN wave originates from all the matter in the universe.  The OUT wave comes from the center of electron, proton, etc and is a reflection of the IN wave.  The resonance between the two waves creates all the physical and chemical properties of matter like charge and nuclear forces.  Gravity is still a mystery, but he believes it has to do with a slight phase shift in the IN wave due to the expansion of the universe.  This slight phase shift creates a condition that makes all wave centers slightly attract to other wave centers assuming the forces due to charge are small by comparison.  Hmmm...  He admits that the data regarding the volume, density and expansion of the universe is not well known and could be explained in other ways.  It's interesting that he uses a scalar wave model that encompases the whole universe to explain gravity, very "Mach"ish.

Doc: Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
Marty McFly: Yeah, I know, I got a real problem with that.

plasticportal's Website

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

plasticportal wrote:


Session 970607

Q: Well, then I said: If the varieties of waves of the EM spectrum are unstable gravity waves, then they could be added
together which could arrive at some total factor of electromagnetism, which then, if reversed, would express the existence
of gravity?
A: On the right track, or "rail" as in "railgun."

Interesting.

Definitely! This is what got me looking into railguns in the first place. When you read up on the subject, the only anomalous thing that stands out about railguns is the rail buckling effect, which then leads directly into longitudinal forces within wires, and that in turn points toward missing areas of EM Theory and ultimately toward the Unified Field Theory. Forget string theory and quantum gravity, the real stuff is hidden in plain sight. And from all that I have seen, knowing geometry, algebra and calculus is enough to make decent headway into all of this, just like the Cassiopaeans said.

plasticportal wrote:

I'm also reading Milo Wolf's space resonance theory (http://www.quantummatter.com/articles/t … neous.html), where he goes to similar lengths to show that causality cannot be broken.  I feel that the concept of causality is rooted in 3d earth perception, which may not be the correct perception!

Interesting link, first time I have seen the site and will read more thoroughly later. About causality, yes I agree with you there. When you think about it, light speed is what defines the limits of causality. Going beyond light speed goes hand in hand with acausal phenomena. But it is taboo in physics to disrespect Relativity's assertion that light speed is constant and absolute, therefore acausality is also taboo. However quantum physics helps out a bit there, showing how acausal interactions can indeed exist. But then, quantum physics is so counter-intuitive because it deals with things outside our 3D perceptions...

plasticportal wrote:

In the paper they use the EM railgun experiement as an example of longitudinal EM forces.  I believe they calculated that the longitudinal forces would be above and beyond the force needed to deform the rail in a railgun experiement.  So what does this have to do with gravity then?  Perhaps the force of gravity has to do with those little known longitudinal forces?

Right, all seems to point to that possibility. I mean, what exactly is a longitudinal force in wire? Why does it happen only when current is pulsed? Well, what makes pulsed current different is that electrons bunch up in the wire instead of all moving at the same time. This creates a compression wave through the wire. But that in itself is just the beginning. The nonlinear electron distribution creates a nonlinear magnetic vector potential field, and that is the best candidate for longitudinal forces, which may very well be gravity. And very elegantly too, because vorticity in the vector potential makes magnetic fields, dynamic changes make for electric fields, so how about compressions making gravity fields? Sounds like a UFT to me.

plasticportal wrote:

I'm still of the philosophy that the universe must communicate with itself in some instantaneous manner.  There must be a mechanism of instantaneous communication.

Sure, in my college physics book on EM theory there was discussion about potential fields, namely the vector potential (A) and scalar potential (V). The book said that according to this one equation, V depends on an electric charge distribution some distance away, and that if the charge distribution on some spot on earth changed, its V field measured on the moon would change instantly -- but then the book rationalized this away by saying, "You cannot measure just V in itself, only gradients in V, and the gradient of V takes some time to get from earth to the moon even if the underlying V field changes instantly, and same with the A field, so there!"

Well to that author I say go suck on a tailpipe, because technology exists right now to measure V or A in itself and you can look it up on Google Patents. There are inventions there (from Honeywell Inc., a government / military contractor, also mentioned in the Cass transcripts), made in the early 1980s showing communication devices using nothing but the A field, meaning they are entirely undetectable to all but quantum-based electronic devices! Now it is 2006 -- you can bet they've been using subspace communications like this for decades. If you want to do it yourself, you have to put together a Josephson Junction out of superconducting materials, like those SQUID sensors used inside MRI machines. Try buying a Josephson Junction...you cannot. Try making your own superconductor... very expensive and complicated. So this tech is inaccessible to all except government and military groups, where they want it kept.

plasticportal wrote:

Gravity is still a mystery, but he believes it has to do with a slight phase shift in the IN wave due to the expansion of the universe.  This slight phase shift creates a condition that makes all wave centers slightly attract to other wave centers assuming the forces due to charge are small by comparison.  Hmmm...  He admits that the data regarding the volume, density and expansion of the universe is not well known and could be explained in other ways.  It's interesting that he uses a scalar wave model that encompases the whole universe to explain gravity, very "Mach"ish.

Yes, sounds like a good theory. As far as I can tell, the gravity fields of all masses in the universe create an ambient gravitational potential field permeating this universe. If we go back to the railgun experiment, this would identically be an ambient divergent vector potential field. Well it just so happens that traveling at constant velocity through this field creates for the traveler a localized but uniform change in this divergence value, which corresponds to a shift in the time rate just as special relativity predicts. And what's more, accelerating through this field creates a local gradient in the divergence, which according to the math is identically a gravity field pointing opposite the direction of acceleration. That sounds convoluted, I know, but the math shows it elegantly. This implies that inertia to acceleration depends on the sum gravitational contributions of all mass in the universe, which is Mach's principle, at least my interpretation of it, and it hinges on a wave equation as well but not the Schroedinger one, just your generic wave equation showing how change through time (acceleration) corresponds to change through space (local field gradient).

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • From: The one whirl
  • Registered: 2005-12-15

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

montalk wrote:

Right, all seems to point to that possibility. I mean, what exactly is a longitudinal force in wire? Why does it happen only when current is pulsed? Well, what makes pulsed current different is that electrons bunch up in the wire instead of all moving at the same time. This creates a compression wave through the wire. But that in itself is just the beginning. The nonlinear electron distribution creates a nonlinear magnetic vector potential field, and that is the best candidate for longitudinal forces, which may very well be gravity. And very elegantly too, because vorticity in the vector potential makes magnetic fields, dynamic changes make for electric fields, so how about compressions making gravity fields? Sounds like a UFT to me.

Exactly!  It's all about the compression waves.  There must be some connection between gravity, compression waves and sound.  If an atomic lattice can vibrate causing sound waves, would it not create etheric compression waves at the same time since an atom is essentially an etheric structure of non-linear density to begin with?  Wouldn't this send out etheric "pulses" as it were.  Could this be the cause of gravitational anomalies from sound as observed by the Tibetans, Keely, Hans Jenny (cymatics) and a host of others.  Obviously sound as perceived by us is a somewhat low frequency, but get a little higher and sound becomes heat, go a little higher than that and maybe sound becomes the key to altering physical reality... eh?

montalk wrote:

Well to that author I say go suck on a tailpipe, because technology exists right now to measure V or A in itself and you can look it up on Google Patents. There are inventions there (from Honeywell Inc., a government / military contractor, also mentioned in the Cass transcripts), made in the early 1980s showing communication devices using nothing but the A field, meaning they are entirely undetectable to all but quantum-based electronic devices! Now it is 2006 -- you can bet they've been using subspace communications like this for decades. If you want to do it yourself, you have to put together a Josephson Junction out of superconducting materials, like those SQUID sensors used inside MRI machines. Try buying a Josephson Junction...you cannot. Try making your own superconductor... very expensive and complicated. So this tech is inaccessible to all except government and military groups, where they want it kept.

Amazing!  I realized that they were WAY ahead of us in technology in this regard, but I'd never taken the time to check for relevant patents.  I always figured they'd keep this stuff wrapped up pretty tight.  Like you said, it doesn't matter much since the average joe doesn't have access to superconductor material.  Oh well. 

What about using some of the ideas published on Rex Research regarding Hodowenec's gravity wave detectors?  http://www.rexresearch.com/hodoindx.htm

My understanding is that his devices use an electrolytic capacitor to measure subtle changes in the ambient l/f noise, which he interprets as the result of gravity wave or potential fluctuations (etheric compression waves?).  I can't tell if he is for real, or just leaving out large chunks of vital information on his devices and testing.  I've never tried building one of these.  I'd have to convince myself somehow that the subtle currents picked up across the capactior aren't just background EM radiation or heat radiation of some sort.  It would need the correct sort of environment to function. 

Kozyrev created a similar device only instead it measured the voltage inside of a simple wheatson bridge circuit.  His claim that his "time waves" (etheric compression waves?) subtly changed the value of the resisters resistance enough for detection purposes.  Both he and Hodowenec describe a sort of lingering effect of these types of waveforms where it wouldn't seem to go away after one was created. 

Actually, forget these examples.  Shouldn't any sort of random number generator that opperates off of reading line noise work just as well?  Would that mean that your basic computer could read potential signals??  Actually that's a scary thought.  I remember the C's saying something about computers "evolving" due to their interaction with humans.  Maybe this is the "consciousness" connection for computer devices... Scary!

Anyways, I guess my point is that perhaps there is a way the "layman" can make use of this technology?  It would be nice if somebody could figure this out, publish plans and distribute widely.  I'm sure that sort of person would meet and untimely death no doubt. 

montalk wrote:

Yes, sounds like a good theory. As far as I can tell, the gravity fields of all masses in the universe create an ambient gravitational potential field permeating this universe. If we go back to the railgun experiment, this would identically be an ambient divergent vector potential field. Well it just so happens that traveling at constant velocity through this field creates for the traveler a localized but uniform change in this divergence value, which corresponds to a shift in the time rate just as special relativity predicts. And what's more, accelerating through this field creates a local gradient in the divergence, which according to the math is identically a gravity field pointing opposite the direction of acceleration. That sounds convoluted, I know, but the math shows it elegantly. This implies that inertia to acceleration depends on the sum gravitational contributions of all mass in the universe, which is Mach's principle, at least my interpretation of it, and it hinges on a wave equation as well but not the Schroedinger one, just your generic wave equation showing how change through time (acceleration) corresponds to change through space (local field gradient).

Wow!  I'll have to wrap my head around this a bit.  It makes sense though in light of Mach's principle.  Mass is frequency (m=hf/c^2), so all mass in the universe must contrubute in some way to the overall frequency of the universe.  I think you've posted the math to this somewhere under your notes... at least I thought I remember reading something similar.  I'll have to go back and look it over again.

Doc: Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
Marty McFly: Yeah, I know, I got a real problem with that.

plasticportal's Website

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

plasticportal wrote:

Exactly!  It's all about the compression waves.  There must be some connection between gravity, compression waves and sound.  If an atomic lattice can vibrate causing sound waves, would it not create etheric compression waves at the same time since an atom is essentially an etheric structure of non-linear density to begin with?  Wouldn't this send out etheric "pulses" as it were.

Yes, even vibrating mass will send out gravity waves which would be compressive waves in the ether. However, such waves are extremely weak because it takes lots of mass to make any detectable gravity field to begin with. But what you are interested in seems to be the link between gravity and electromagnetism. Therefore an electromagnetic way of creating gravity is more important.   We know that oscillating charges send out EM waves, but depending on how they oscillate, they could just as well send out longitudinal waves instead.

I wrote a couple research notes last month about transverse waves and longitudinal waves:

http://montalk.net/notes/transverse-waves
http://montalk.net/notes/longitudinal-waves

The second involves compression waves being sent IN the direction of current oscillation. Normal electromagnetic waves radiate away at right angles instead, hence the term "transverse." But the point is that a compression wave sent through an electrified substance (like plasma) will create a longitudinal wave. Piezoelectric materials like certain stones will do the same. You can vibrate them with sound, and the sound induces pressure waves inside, which due to the piezoelectric property creates a compressive electromagnetic wave. I think that is the basis of megalithic technology. As I mentioned previously on NR, the resonant frequencies of all the megaliths in Europe, from the smallest to the largest, happen to fall exactly within the natural frequency range of the human voice. I don't think that is coincidence.

plasticportal wrote:

What about using some of the ideas published on Rex Research regarding Hodowenec's gravity wave detectors?  http://www.rexresearch.com/hodoindx.htm

Ah, yes the Hodowanec device would detect local compressions and expansions in the ether, local changes in gravity. I'm not sure whether it detects the gravitational potential or just the gravitational force field. I'm guessing the first, because the device does not seem to function well as an accelerometer, but it does respond to planetary alignments and so on. If so, then it should work to detect one type of exotic wave, compressive/expansive waves in the vector potential. The patents by Honeywell may not modulate the compression so much as the vector potential itself uniformly through space, in which case Hodowanec's device would not detect it. But who knows... good idea and worth a try!

plasticportal wrote:

Kozyrev created a similar device only instead it measured the voltage inside of a simple wheatson bridge circuit.  His claim that his "time waves" (etheric compression waves?) subtly changed the value of the resisters resistance enough for detection purposes.  Both he and Hodowenec describe a sort of lingering effect of these types of waveforms where it wouldn't seem to go away after one was created.

On the subject of scalar waves and vibrations, in case you haven't seen the articles at Terra Research, they are very interesting:
http://terraresearch.net/articles/GodsFirmament.htm
http://terraresearch.net/articles/EarTones.html
http://terraresearch.net/articles/ZapSeismo1.html

Reason I mention these is because that last article says:

Magnets slipping down refrigerator before earthquakes

Have you ever heard of magnets that moved down a refrigerator before a strong earthquake? It is a true phenomenon. The cause are strong bursts of Longitudinal Scalar EM Waves, usually as impulses. The impulse will momentarily affect the magnetic strength of the magnet. Gravity will then take over. When the impulse decays, the magnet returns to its full strength. Over time, the magnets can be found further down the face of the refrigerator from multiple episodes of impulses and slippage.

Not all magnets are affected equally. The magnetic field strength to mass is a mass to field ratio and is a very critical ratio that forms a ‘tuning’ of the frequency characteristic of the Longitudinal Scalar EM Wave. Thus, from geophone to geophone the affects of these waves can vary on the response.

In time, scientists may find a curiosity and discover what the earth is revealing to them in a rich mystery of physics, scalar physics. When this door is opened, then new theory will replace old and many mysteries will be understood – the Ear Tone Sensation, Earthquake ‘lights’, fault resonance characteristics, Earthquake ‘booms’, the ‘silent quake’, the standard ‘earthquake’, biological affects, animal responses, and the ultimate goal – knowing in advance of an earthquake, the size, and location.

...there you see an example of exotic waves changing the strength or property of magnets. So these affect magnets, resisters if Kozyrev is correct, and capacitors a la Hodowanec. Interesting. I bet certain types of waves can also affect molecular forces like van der Waals forces that give metals their rigidity, thus making them temporarily softer like in the Hutchison effect or spoon bending.

plasticportal wrote:

Actually, forget these examples.  Shouldn't any sort of random number generator that opperates off of reading line noise work just as well?  Would that mean that your basic computer could read potential signals??  Actually that's a scary thought.  I remember the C's saying something about computers "evolving" due to their interaction with humans.  Maybe this is the "consciousness" connection for computer devices... Scary!

Once computers start incorporating nonlinear neural nets that respond to quantum factors, maybe even scalar waves, look out! Even now, getting very angry and frustrated can screw up computers, so they already seem to respond to emotional energy.

Here is something interesting:

http://autism.dimensionallife.com/ADAM_technology.asp

It's called ADAM technology, which stands for "Aphysical Dimensional Access Manager" -- a plasma device connected to a computer that supposedly allows communication across the dimensional boundary. It's being used to treat autistic kids by communicating and programming their consciousness dislocated into another dimension.

plasticportal wrote:

Anyways, I guess my point is that perhaps there is a way the "layman" can make use of this technology?  It would be nice if somebody could figure this out, publish plans and distribute widely.  I'm sure that sort of person would meet and untimely death no doubt.

If they announced it loudly enough, yes I'm sure. Stanley Meyer the water-car inventor died early, so did Stefan Marinov who was investigating longitudinal technologies, and Eugene Mallove who was murdered days after saying he had discovered something BIG. But it's just a matter of time before someone somewhere slips through and succeeds.

plasticportal wrote:

Wow!  I'll have to wrap my head around this a bit.  It makes sense though in light of Mach's principle.  Mass is frequency (m=hf/c^2), so all mass in the universe must contrubute in some way to the overall frequency of the universe.  I think you've posted the math to this somewhere under your notes... at least I thought I remember reading something similar.  I'll have to go back and look it over again.

Oh, I had removed it for a while and then forgot about it, but here it is again:
http://montalk.net/notes/portal-physics

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • montalk
  • montalk
  • forum-keeper-upper
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2004-03-24

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

Just saw this...

MCMASTER RESEARCHER VERIFIES NEW TYPE OF RADIO WAVE
Hamilton, Ontario – September 24, 2007  (typo on article date)

McMaster research engineer Professor Natalia Nikolova, and her husband Robert Zimmerman, have verified the existence of a new type of radio wave called the Vector Potential Wave. This wave was first predicted in 1880 by British mathematician James Clerk Maxwell, but had never been directly detected until this summer here on McMaster campus in the Communications Research Lab. Dr. Nikolova comments, “One of the most enigmatic predictions of Maxwell was his concept of the magnetic vector potential. Until recently, most engineers believed it was only a mathematical concept with no physical reality. Now, more than 125 years later, we have realized a magnetic vector potential detector which allows measuring the wave at any distance from a microwave antenna”.

Nikolova and her husband have been working on this development nearly 2 years. Zimmerman feels that the new discovery will ultimately lead to radio and television transmissions which do not require energy. On a more fundamental level, he added, “Maxwell was correct all along”.

The novelty of the discovery is that while the transmission requires very little energy, the reception of the wave requires that an active battery operated receiver be used. This is distinct from usual AM radio transmissions, where much energy is radiated by the transmitter, and the receiver can be a ‘crystal set’ with no battery.

The detector developed by the research team is a plasma device looking like a fluorescent tube which displays super-conducting properties for radio signals. Nikolova is quick to add, “The device is at room temperature but acts like a superconductor, as predicted by Fritz London in 1930”.

Nikolova and Zimmerman plan on submitting their results this week to the research journal THE PHYSICAL REVIEW of the American Physical Society.

More on Professor Natalia Nikolova:
http://www.ece.mcmaster.ca/faculty/georgieva/

I have been researching these scalar and vector potential waves since 2004. It's all straightforward math and reasoning, but not anything taught to mainstream physicists. For anyone interested, see my latest research notes:

http://montalk.net/notes/the-etheric-or … -magnetism
(This one lays out the basics using diagrams. Should be easy to understand. If you want to know scalar physics, this is it).

http://montalk.net/notes/potential-fields-primer
(The basic equations of scalar and vector potential fields and waves)

http://montalk.net/notes/tesla-wireless-technology
(Analyzing Nikola Tesla's proposed "wireless transmission of energy" system.)

http://montalk.net/notes/magnetic-monopoles
(Why magnetic monopoles do NOT exist, but magnetic vector potential monopoles do -- we're made of them)

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

montalk's Website

  • From: The one whirl
  • Registered: 2005-12-15

Re: gravity, electrostatics and scaler waves

Good find!  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Although one has to wonder how "new" this really is given the circumstancial evidence from many other sources...

But regardless it's new in the sense that the vector potential is finally getting some recognition.  This seems to go beyond the Aharonov-Bohm effect, which showed that there was some reality to the vector potential, at least in quantum terms.  This puts the reality clearly in the macroscopic realm.

Doc: Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!
Marty McFly: Yeah, I know, I got a real problem with that.

plasticportal's Website