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#16 2006-07-12 21:39:09

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: A Banker on Banking

Well if we are going to get into a deeper discussion then I think we need to get clear about what we mean by the word money since it tends to be one of those words that people use a lot without really knowing what it means.

JoT:  Are you talking about disposing of all forms of money, or just Federal Reserve Notes?

Money, in the broadest sense, is any physical object which has been invested with value.  Hence it is a union of something spiritual with something physical.   So long as we have physical bodies, and value the physical world, money will exist in some form or another. 

What we as people value is a matter of free will, and the amount of value we have available to us is limitless.  Hence the secret to becoming wealthy is to place increasing amounts of value on what you already have.  The more you value what you already have, the more that will be drawn to you via the Law of Attraction.

Commerce, or trade, is the act of exchanging things of equal value.  If I've got three apples and you've got three oranges, we could simply trade them for one another.  But what if it took you more effort to produce those three oranges than it did my three apples?  Perhaps you would want five of my apples for three of your oranges. 

Timing is also a big factor.  Values change over time, often in predictable ways.  If apples are harvested in fall, and oranges harvested in spring, then it makes sense that apples will be worth more in the spring, and oranges in the fall.

[EDIT: Ever find yourself paying more for lower quality produce when it is off season?]

The core of every system of control is to manipulate what people value, which is why I believe that freedom from control is so closely tied to financial freedom.  How can anybody be free if they have to work for a living? It doesn't make any sense. 

So what to do?  Well I think it is prudent to begin with the steps that we each as individuals can take right here and now, without needing any change to the system whatsoever.  We need to lay the foundation for change before we can ever hope to bring it into existence.  Here are three steps that anybody can take right now to get started, and they all lay oustide of the grasp of TBTB control mechanisms.  That is to say, nobody can stop you from taking these steps but yourself.

1.  Educate yourself about money.

If you don't understand how the system works, there is no hope of freeing yourself from it.  Learning about money opens your mind up to possiblities that you may not have previously considered and puts you in touch with your own programs about money, so that you can begin to undo them yourself.

2.  Get your values in alignment.

There is a gross discrepancy between what people say they value, and what they value in fact, based upon where they put their money.  People argue all the time over what kinds of values we should have, but few discussions are had about how to get our values in alignment with our pocketbooks.  The first leads to war and poverty, while the second leads to peace and prosperity.

3.  Stop borrowing and get out of debt.

Borrowing money is voluntarily subjecting yourself to control.  It's really as simple as that.  There is no such thing as "good debt".  What good is a nice house if it could be taken away from you at any moment?  What good is an education if you are forced to take a job you don't really like so you can back your loans?  What good is a business if you have to be there at 8AM every morning, come rain or shine, because you need to pay your creditors?  Enslaving yourself today so that you can be free tomorrow doesn't make any sense.  It is a lie propagated by TPTBs who want to keep you enslaved to the system.

If you do owe money (and yes, I do) then it is imperative that you get out of debt ASAP.  This does not necessarily mean working like a dog and throwing every last penny you have at your debts.  While this will work, it is not usually the fastest or easiest way to get out of debt.  It all depends on your situation.  If you can find a way to invest the money you have to get a greater return than the interest rate you are paying on your debts, then now is the time to go for it.

If you owe money on your house, then now is the time to either pay it off, or sell it and get something that you can pay cash for.  If you can't buy anything you like, then rent.  I don't have the time to go into all the details about the housing bubble, but the info is out there for anybody who would care to look.  Wait too long, and you might find yourself not only out of a home, but unable to rent because you have a foreclosure on your record. 

There are a lot of people who are predicting a total market crash as a precursor to mass awakening.  I feel that a market crash would be the result of mass awakening, since the market runs on debt, and anybody who awakens would immediately stop borrowing money.  Think about it.  Why would an enlightened person need to borrow money? 

There are also a lot of newagey people who refuse to see the signs and would prefer to ignore the reality of economic collapse.  Their rose-colored glasses blind them to seeing the great opportunity that a collapse would provide them.  Economic collapse sounds "bad" and they don't want to think about anything "bad" so they would rather ignore the inevitable.  All this does is render otherwise powerful people helpless, and play into the hands of TBTBs.

If mass awakening is to occur, then it must result in the collapse of the current economic system.  Remove the debt, and the system comes tumbling down.  It is as simple as that, and there is nothing that TPTBs can do to stop it.  All they can do is trick us into thinking that exchanging one form of debt for another is the answer, and try to reestablish control this way after the crash occurs.

Last edited by tenetnosce (2006-07-14 06:08:00)


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#17 2006-07-13 22:39:31

Jeffrey of Troy
Member
Registered: 2006-03-20

Re: A Banker on Banking

tenetnosce wrote:

JoT:  Are you talking about disposing of all forms of money, or just Federal Reserve Notes?...Money, in the broadest sense, is any physical object which has been invested with value.  Hence it is a union of something spiritual with something physical.   So long as we have physical bodies, and value the physical world, money will exist in some form or another.

This is exactly the idea that I am challenging in that article. I don't know how it will work; we have to find out (did somebody say, "Discover."?). Star Trek, The Next Generation was a great illustration of a society that was very technologically advanced, but did not have money (basically, everyone was middle-class). Even in Voyager (they were outside the Federation the whole time), they would say to races along the way, "We'll do this and you do that", for mutual benefit - a  culture that is fundamentally inimical to $. Once U have the unit of exchange, U automatically will start to have all the problems $ causes, esp. "speculation", which perverts the whole society. Note I did not say "we should eliminate $"; no, we can and we must.

First, we take a world without money (and pollution, poverty, crime, and war) as our goal, then allow the action of aligning ourselves with that future to transform our mentalities.

With that as our goal, we begin making changes to move the world in that direction more every year until we have accomplished it. Only when we achieve it will we B able to look back and say, "oh, that is the process that actually produced the desired result." To create means what did not exist before.

Ya feelin' me?

tenetnosce wrote:

The core of every system of control is to manipulate what people value, which is why I believe that freedom from control is so closely tied to financial freedom.  How can anybody be free if they have to work for a living? It doesn't make any sense.

Engaging in productive work is essential to psychological health for humans, which is Y the current system is so evil: having to struggle to make money to live - instead of pursuing the full development of their unique abilities - drives people crazy.

Every human should get all their needs met from birth til adulthood. What would the result of that B? Oh, how almost unimaginably different than our current state. What abilities would B unleashed, for the benefit of all?

FREEDOM!


We are all Kosh.

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#18 2006-07-14 00:37:27

Hildegarde
Artist of the Spirit
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2005-07-11

Re: A Banker on Banking

tenetnosce wrote:

1.  Educate yourself about money.

2.  Get your values in alignment.

3.  Stop borrowing and get out of debt.

You have made really good points tenetnosce. I would like to quote The Secret movie and add a fourth tongue

4. Focus on prosperity!


"The universe is on fire with wonder, beauty, and ecstasy." - From the Undines to Humanity

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#19 2006-07-14 22:53:30

meta-agnostic
Member
Registered: 2006-01-05

Re: A Banker on Banking

As far as change (pun only slightly intended), I believe:

for society:
1) transcending money (i.e. having no money) should be the long term goal

2) better/fairer money should be the short term goal

for the individual:
3) being in a secure yet still modest position in order to live comfortably, fulfillingly, and effect change in the system if possible and desidred (see above for detais)

4) there are more important and interesting topics than money/banking, hence its low popularity on NR and other places.  And for good reason; Philip K. Dick is a much more fascinating and reality-transcending subject then the machinations of the Federal Reserve System and its corollaries.  I'm looking forward to seeing the new adaptation this weekend!

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#20 2006-08-05 12:51:01

bruce
Member
Registered: 2006-05-21

Re: A Banker on Banking

For alternative money systems you might want to look at:

http://www.newciv.org/ncn/moneyteam.html

And in particular, Ithaca Hours, which is one the links:

http://www.lightlink.com/hours/ithacahours/

Bruce

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#21 2006-08-06 02:04:50

Hildegarde
Artist of the Spirit
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2005-07-11

Re: A Banker on Banking

Money is a medium in which abundance can be transferred.
It doesn't matter what currency or what type of money we are looking it.
Money in all forms is a medium in which value is transferred.
You can use the Law of Attraction to attract money.
Focus on prosperity and intend for money.


"The universe is on fire with wonder, beauty, and ecstasy." - From the Undines to Humanity

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#22 2007-02-06 15:52:01

globug
Member
Registered: 2007-01-04

Re: A Banker on Banking

I had visited a site, can't recall the site right now but I'll try to find it, where it spoke of President Kennedy issuing an exucative order (which was weird, cuz the executive number was like 11 11 or something like that) to fire the Federal Reserve Banks (system). But then he was assassinated, coincidence? hmmmmm.


~JOYce~

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#23 2007-02-06 16:18:30

globug
Member
Registered: 2007-01-04

Re: A Banker on Banking

Ahhh-Haa! I found it....the executive order number was 1110...it is believed that the executive order is still valid to this day, here is the site...( http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/executiveorder11110.htm )


~JOYce~

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#24 2007-02-06 17:13:53

J_dub
Member
Registered: 2006-03-16

Re: A Banker on Banking

Ideally we would perform all service in a creative, loving fashion, where what "you owe me" doesn't matter. You just do everything for the joy of it. What comes to you in return is of no consideration. You have faith that your personal needs will be met.

The whole problem is not the current money system so much as the attitude that is associated with it. To me, the "You owe me" part is where the problem lies. We should just do what we do, do our best, take care of those around us, and trust that our personal needs will be met in the process.

The other (preferred?) method is to live under money's control. Fear. Slavery.

And remember, what goes around comes around. That pretty much sums it up.


"My shadow weighs 42 pounds......."
-Weird Al Yankovic

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#25 2007-02-06 17:36:55

Shoogie
Member
Registered: 2007-01-04

Re: A Banker on Banking

My mom is a banker, even she knows money is an illusion. Bankers are wizards. But seriously I remember studying economics in college and my book explained that the history of paper money was that it's an I.O.U. for gold or something. So basically we're passing around I.O.U.s What happens when they come due? lol

You know what I've always wanted to do? Hack the Beast computer and type in a large sum of money to my bank account. How much money you owe or have is really just numbers on a screen somewhere. roll


My People Were Fair And Had Sky In Their Hair...But Now They're Content To Wear Stars On Their Brows

-Tyrannosaurus rex

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#26 2007-02-07 18:35:07

visavis
sojourner
Registered: 2005-10-16
Website

Re: A Banker on Banking

http://www.expositus.net/2006/notax/thebankingindustryincanada2.jpg


"The unknown does not incite fear, but dependence on the known does." - J. Krishnamurti

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#27 2007-03-26 23:07:05

artichoke
Member
Registered: 2005-11-14

Re: A Banker on Banking

Shoogie wrote:

My mom is a banker, even she knows money is an illusion. Bankers are wizards. But seriously I remember studying economics in college and my book explained that the history of paper money was that it's an I.O.U. for gold or something. So basically we're passing around I.O.U.s What happens when they come due? lol

You know what I've always wanted to do? Hack the Beast computer and type in a large sum of money to my bank account. How much money you owe or have is really just numbers on a screen somewhere. roll

They used to be IOU's for gold, but then if the supply of gold is fixed (actually it's not; mining goes on) and the paper money is "earning" interest, there's too much paper money for the available gold.

They they changed to the silver standard, now it's not backed by any tangible substance.  That makes it easier to have inflation when the central bank decides to have it.

Relative to an earlier post, the central bank doesn't issue M3.  (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply for an explanation of these measures.)  It issues M0, so called "high powered money" which means dollar bills.  M3 is even less tangible than that, created when e.g. banks take deposits of $100 and re-lend $500.  There may not be enough dollar bills to pay all the debts, if it came down to it.

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#28 2007-06-03 06:46:57

mandalis
Guest

Re: A Banker on Banking

the United States was officially bankrupt in 1933 with House Joint Resolution 192 because it could not pay it's debts in gold ...  the Federal Reserve is the receiver of this bankruptcy and thus 'owns' legal title to the United States for the benefit of the foreign principals that own the Federal Reserve member banks ...

a list of the primary bond dealers is here http://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/pride … rrent.html

BNP Paribas Securities Corp.
Banc of America Securities LLC
Barclays Capital Inc.
Bear, Stearns & Co., Inc.
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co.
Citigroup Global Markets Inc.
Countrywide Securities Corporation
Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC
Daiwa Securities America Inc.
Deutsche Bank Securities Inc.
Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein Securities LLC.
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
Greenwich Capital Markets, Inc.
HSBC Securities (USA) Inc.
J. P. Morgan Securities Inc.
Lehman Brothers Inc.
Merrill Lynch Government Securities Inc.
Mizuho Securities USA Inc.
Morgan Stanley & Co. Incorporated
Nomura Securities International, Inc.
UBS Securities LLC.



what most people don't realize is that the legal value of a dollar for purposes of the Uniform Commercial Code section 3-303 is still defined by the United States Code at $42 and two ninths PER OUNCE OF GOLD  .... so if you owe someone $43, what you really owe them is ONE OUNCE OF GOLD, and if they accept Federal Reserve Notes than the debt is DISCHARGED but not PAID ...  this is why the Federal Reserve lists the par value of gold stock at $42.2222 http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/ … assets.htm ... THEY HAVE TO ...  what they are saying is that when they 'create reserves' to buy United States government securities their promise is worth an ounce of gold for every $42.2222 ....  i guess they haven't seen the futures market price of gold lately which is ready to trade of $700 again ...  the Federal Reserve does not create 'money' they create 'reserves'  ... be careful with the vocabulary, they are ...  what we use for currency today is not 'money' meaning silver and gold at $42.2222 per ounce ...  our currency are not 'dollars' but 'dollar denominated tax credits' .... so if you 'owe' the government taxes of $42.2222 they have to accept the little green stamps on the Federal Reserve notes 'for value' because they promised they would ...  so does any government created corporation with a taxpayer identification number ...  the concept of par value is seldom understood outside the most elite of financial circles but it is the main scam of central banking ...  there is no conspiracy, all the information is public ...

Last edited by mandalis (2007-06-03 06:48:58)

 

#29 2007-06-03 06:55:40

mandalis
Guest

Re: A Banker on Banking

J_dub wrote:

Ideally we would perform all service in a creative, loving fashion, where what "you owe me" doesn't matter. You just do everything for the joy of it. What comes to you in return is of no consideration. You have faith that your personal needs will be met.

The whole problem is not the current money system so much as the attitude that is associated with it. To me, the "You owe me" part is where the problem lies. We should just do what we do, do our best, take care of those around us, and trust that our personal needs will be met in the process.

The other (preferred?) method is to live under money's control. Fear. Slavery.

And remember, what goes around comes around. That pretty much sums it up.

this is the myth of communism 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their need ' ... unfortunately, this is when Stalin 'needs' a ninety foot boat and everyone else spends sixteen hours a day toiling on a collective farm ...  the Chinese Communist Party starved fifty million people this way during the 'great leap forward' ...  what is really better is when people are allowed to FREELY exchange the products of their arts for what they want from others ...  i should be able to live on my own land and grow my own plants and if you want some smoke then offer me something i want ... to say that I MUST give you want you want for nothing is called racketeering or communism ...  it has starved many ...

 

#30 2007-06-03 07:00:10

mandalis
Guest

Re: A Banker on Banking

Shoogie wrote:

My mom is a banker, even she knows money is an illusion. Bankers are wizards. But seriously I remember studying economics in college and my book explained that the history of paper money was that it's an I.O.U. for gold or something. So basically we're passing around I.O.U.s What happens when they come due? lol

You know what I've always wanted to do? Hack the Beast computer and type in a large sum of money to my bank account. How much money you owe or have is really just numbers on a screen somewhere. roll

your mom's explanation is the simpleton textbook explanation ... 'money' strictly speaking is gold and silver .... 'currency' we use today 'as money' are actually gold dollar denominated tax credits that never come due, they are just re-discounted in the futures market ...

the beast will give you all the 'money' that you want, do you really want the karma?  personally i think money is a nuisance ....

Last edited by mandalis (2007-06-03 07:01:13)

 

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