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#1 2006-07-09 05:02:12

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

A Banker on Banking

I don't think one could be much more concise about the subject. .


"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again . Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in . But if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit."

  --- Sir Josiah Stamp, president of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920's, speaking at the University of Texas in 1927

Last edited by tenetnosce (2006-07-09 18:12:37)


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#2 2006-07-09 05:08:10

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: A Banker on Banking

Immediately after I posted that an idea hit me. . .

Even though individual bankers may decide to get out of the business once they realize what is really going on. . . the business itself continues like it has a mind of it's own.

Individual people go in, and come out, but the business itself is what ensures that only the most unscrupulous of individuals stick around for any meaningful length of time.


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#3 2006-07-09 11:07:04

Aquarius
Member
Registered: 2004-10-07

Re: A Banker on Banking

Excellent quote!!  I'm horking it, smile but in exchange I'll leave you with this:



I Want The Earth Plus 5%
How The Federal Reserve Board System Works
The Story of Fabian
The History Of Money And Power Told As A Fairy Tale

http://www.federal-reserve.net/iwantthe … ercent.htm


Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great and would suffice.  ~Robert Frost

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#4 2006-07-09 13:54:32

StarCat
Member
Registered: 2005-10-12

Re: A Banker on Banking

I believe David Icke has spoken also about all that money that does not exist.
His view on this matter is the same.
The banking system is a master rip-off


StarCat

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#5 2006-07-10 01:39:12

Hildegarde
Artist of the Spirit
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2005-07-11

Re: A Banker on Banking

That's in the 1920's... what about now. Is it still happening?
Doesn't the government put a limit on the amount of money being printed?
If value was created out of nothing, eventually the value created will be very diluted and have no value right?


"The universe is on fire with wonder, beauty, and ecstasy." - From the Undines to Humanity

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#6 2006-07-10 04:58:05

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: A Banker on Banking

Hildegarde wrote:

That's in the 1920's... what about now. Is it still happening?
Doesn't the government put a limit on the amount of money being printed?
If value was created out of nothing, eventually the value created will be very diluted and have no value right?

Bingo. 

Not only is it still happening, but it's happening at an even faster rate than ever before.

Besides printing physical money the Fed also issues "created credit", or M3.  The stats on how much M3 was being created used to be public information until a few months ago when the Fed decided that we really didn't need to know the truth about that anymore.

Since the creation of the modern U.S. dollar, it has since lost at least 95% of its purchasing power.  It has absolutely no intrinsic value and only means something so long as people believe that it does.  Every fiat currency on the planet has eventually devalued to zero, and there is no reason to believe that the U.S. dollar (or any other fiat currency) is any different.

In the post-WWII era, the U.S. was the worlds largest industrial manufacturer of goods as well as the largest creditor of other nations.  Hence, there was a lot of "good faith" in the dollar to go around.

Today, the U.S. operates a trade deficit on the order of trillions and is now one of the world's largest debtor nations. . . and that means faith is falling fast.

In my opinion, the creation of the U.S. dollar is the mother of all modern-day conspiracies.  All of the wars we are fighting are not about possession of oil so much as the maintenance of the dollar as the oil reserve currency and universal medium of exchange.

There is a whole spiritual dimension to it as well.   The dollar is nothing more than a "promise to pay".  Only problem is, there is nothing to make payment with since the dollar is not backed by anything tangible.  Therefore, every time you pay for something with dollars you are making a promise you can't keep. . .

Last edited by tenetnosce (2006-07-10 21:24:09)


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#7 2006-07-10 14:02:00

meta-agnostic
Member
Registered: 2006-01-05

Re: A Banker on Banking

This all rings very true.  And it has been on my mind quite a bit lately.  The whole scheme of banking seems to have had elements of a global conspiracy from the get-go, but the creation and perpetuation of modern fiat currency does seem like one of the grandest illusions of all time.

Was anyone here alive and aware during the 1965-1971 period when the final stages of this lie were put into being?  I've been trying to get some idea of how the general population reacted and if there was any semblance of organized opposition at all.  I've gathered the impression that silver was needed for manufacturing processes during the cold war, and this may have been enough to get most people to go along with it.  Does anyone have any sources detailing public sentiment at the time?  Everything I've come across has either been very matter-of-fact or foaming-at-the-mouth conspiracy-oriented.

This could be relevant to our current predicament sooner rather than later with even base metal prices shooting up the way they have been.  With both pennies and nickels in the U.S. costing more fake money to produce than the value of fake money they are assigned, there are groups pushing to stop manufacturing pennies both for this reason and because they are an "inconvenience".  Few of them seem to address the fact that the same argument could also be applied to nickels, and if nickels also go away then all of a sudden you can't make change for a quarter.  It is pretty amazing that U.S. coinage has never really been modernized the way other countries have, and it's no doubt part of the hypnosis.  As long as Americans keep buying sh!t with their fake money, the global economy will somehow keep churning along.  But after this fall's election TPTB may decide it's time to deal with this issue more directly once again, and maybe take us another step or two towards going cashless.  I'm all for brainstorming some remotely plausible alternatives!

see: http://www.coinflation.com

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#8 2006-07-10 20:18:57

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: A Banker on Banking

meta-agnostic wrote:

This all rings very true.  And it has been on my mind quite a bit lately.  The whole scheme of banking seems to have had elements of a global conspiracy from the get-go, but the creation and perpetuation of modern fiat currency does seem like one of the grandest illusions of all time.

Few people are aware that the issuance of currency was the reason behind the reason for the Revolutionary War.  The Colonies didn't have a problem paying taxes. . . they just wanted to pay taxes with their own currency rather than gold.

Civil War?  More about central banking than slavery.

The more I learn about it the more astounded I am that these topics have been pretty much stripped out of any history textbook you find.  Even a lot of university level history professors are unaware of this particular angle. 

meta-agnostic wrote:

Was anyone here alive and aware during the 1965-1971 period when the final stages of this lie were put into being? I've been trying to get some idea of how the general population reacted and if there was any semblance of organized opposition at all.

I wasn't there, though I can say that it was a lot easier once JFK was out of the way.  If you really want to blow your mind, do a little research on assassinated Presidents and their views on economic policy.

meta-agnostic wrote:

Does anyone have any sources detailing public sentiment at the time?  Everything I've come across has either been very matter-of-fact or foaming-at-the-mouth conspiracy-oriented.

Again, I don't know, but I think we can extrapolate back from current sentiment to conclude that most people were probably distracted by something else.  Try talking to somebody today about the subject and watch their eyes glaze over in about 3 seconds flat.  Even here on NR amongst relatively awakened people, a much smaller percentage participate in posts in this section as compared to other sections.  If you are looking for a wider range of input I would suggest starting a topic in another section.

For most people the programming is too strong.  The topic is just too boooooooorrrrring!  But mention that you know how to make a quick million in the housing market and eyes start jumping out of sockets.  Your average American spends 40 hours a week chasing around these little green pieces of paper, but doesn't have the "time" or "interest" to learn about what exactly they are.  Too bad, since understanding what money is and how it works makes it a LOT easier to come by.

Even a lot of "spiritual" people I talk to either shun the topic completely in public (meanwhile performing various rituals, and continually asking their guides, for more money), or respond with some canned newage quips about how it's all "One".  Really?  Because I'm pretty sure the benefactors of this scheme don't see it that way.

meta-agnostic wrote:

With both pennies and nickels in the U.S. costing more fake money to produce than the value of fake money they are assigned, there are groups pushing to stop manufacturing pennies both for this reason and because they are an "inconvenience".

Actually, the problem is that coins ARE tangible money, and that their intrinsic worth is becoming more than their face value.   But yes, the programmed line is that tangible money is just too "inconvenient", or "unsafe". 

meta-agnostic wrote:

As long as Americans keep buying sh!t with their fake money, the global economy will somehow keep churning along.

Believe it or not, the main reason this is all coming to a head is because Americans won't STOP buying things with their fake money.  It's all just peaches and apple pie!  Things are going to turn around soon.  Just keep SPENDING, SPENDING, SPENDING!  Take out another home equity loan while interest rates are still low!  Get that shiny new car while they've still got zero percent financing! 

Well you know, contrary to popular American belief, people in the rest of the world aren't stupid, and they are rapidly growing tired of exchanging their labor and goods for funny-munny that probably isn't going to be worth a damn in a few years.

meta-agnostic wrote:

But after this fall's election TPTB may decide it's time to deal with this issue more directly once again, and maybe take us another step or two towards going cashless.  I'm all for brainstorming some remotely plausible alternatives!

I'm not sure we can really avoid a cashless system.  Almost everybody I talk to seems to think its inevitable. . which makes them pretty much right.  It's more or less cashless already, anyway.  I've been turned away from places of business because they don't have change for a twenty!!! 

Alternatives. . . ?  I'm not sure we're at the place where anything else would be truly viable.  I'm more focused on taking measures to offset the negative effects of upcoming events.  If anybody's got any tips on how to "create my own reality" with regard to this one, please speak up.

However, I would consider these factors to be of primary importance in a fair and functional system:

1.  Currency would either have intrinsic value, or represent something of intrinsic value for which it can be freely exchanged.

2.  Production and distribution of currency would be decentralized and unprivatized.

3.  Goods would be valued in terms of how much ACTUAL labor went into production of each particular item, instead of how much money was exchanged for the labor.

4.  Services would be negotiable ONLY at the time they are rendered.  No more service contracts or prepay plans.

5.  Accounting for public entities (corporations and governments) would be FULLY transparent and freely available on a real-time basis.

6.  Loans charging interest upon interest, as well as other forms of usury (ex. "payday advance" loans), would be explicitly illegal.

7.  Income taxes, estate taxes, and gift taxes, would be abolished.

But MOST IMPORTANTLY, individuals would take reponsibility for educating themselves on the economic, political, and especially SPIRITUAL implications of monetary systems.

Last edited by tenetnosce (2006-07-10 21:14:18)


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#9 2006-07-10 20:59:51

sinaptix
Member
Registered: 2005-07-09

Re: A Banker on Banking

This is a nice explanation of how the banker scam works:

Salvation Island (Money Myth Exploded - The Financial enigma resolved - A debt money system)

http://www.realnews247.com/money_myth_exploded.htm

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#10 2006-07-10 21:10:46

Jeffrey of Troy
Member
Registered: 2006-03-20

Re: A Banker on Banking

I wrote the following on my blog a while a go; since it addresses the subject of this thread, I decided to post it in its entirety. If it's too big, I'll take it off (not trying to hog cyberspace).

We Must Eliminate Money

It's Inefficient

As the Open Source (software) Movement has shown us, money causes unnecessary duplication of effort. Sure, you say, I can see that with software, because of how easy it is to copy information - but you can't do that with cars or houses.

Well, let's look at the scientific community in the modern era, which has given us all the neat stuff - from cars to computers, from refrigerators to airplanes - that we enjoy today. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Culture

"The principle of sharing predates the open source movement; for example, the free sharing of information has been institutionalized in the scientific enterprise since at least the 19th century. Open source principles have always been part of the scientific community. The sociologist Robert K. Merton described the four basic elements of the community - universalism (an international perspective), communism (sharing information), disinterestedness (removing one's personal views from the scientific inquiry) and organized skepticism (requirements of proof and review) that accurately describe the scientific community today. These principles are, in part, complemented by US law's focus on protecting expression and method but not the ideas themselves. There is also a tradition of publishing research results to the scientific community instead of keeping all such knowledge proprietary. "

Did you notice the second to last line ? " These principles are ... complemented by US law's focus on protecting expression and method but not the ideas themselves." So, business/government allows this " communism " at the creation stage, because they know it's more efficient and effective, but then makes the results of that communistic creation ( the tech we have today ) " proprietary ", so they can charge us kazillions ( see " It's A Scam ", below ).

Without this unnecessary duplication of effort to make money, how much productive capacity could be freed to create a high standard of living for all? And what about the billions of people worldwide who never had the chance to find out what greatness they could create, that might benefit us all, simply because they had to make money to survive?

But wait, there's more! As Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation has labored to point out for many years, the "open source" movement itself was created to make the free software movement more palatable to Business; of course something valuable ( essential? ) was lost in the translation ( see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-soft … eedom.html ).

Money is inefficient, impractical, and immoral.

It's A Scam

1.) The Federal Reserve orders some money printed.
2.) The U.S. Treasury prints the money.
3.) The Federal Reserve buys the money ( it doesn't cost much to print the money ).
4.) The Federal Reserve then lends the money to business and government at interest.
5.) The Shareholders of the Federal Reserve then buy real goods ( gold, minerals, land, productive businesses ) with the fake money ( the interest paid ).

So, the whole U.S. economy is built on a scam.

For a glimpse of how deep the rabbit hole goes, see " The Myth of the Rule of Law " .

Oh, I can hear you now: " that's because of paper money ", or " we need to go back to the gold standard ", or " blah blah blah ". Really? Were these problems non-existent then? They existed, and have only gotten worse. The best you can hope for with those solutions is to make massive problems slightly less bad. And in Reality, so long as there is money, it will always only be a matter of time 'til we reach the present state again.

Not good enough.

It's Evil

Money was created so that some ( very few ) would have a lot of it, and the rest ( the vast majority ) would have little to none; that is Evil. Money literally causes poverty. At the level of the individual, obviously having money is the opposite of poverty; at the level of the human race, though, the fact that money exists consigns the majority to poverty - that is why it is done.

From David Chandler's http://www.lcurve.org/ :

" Quoting from a recently-published book by political philosopher David Schweickart,

If we divided the income of the US into thirds, we find that the top ten percent of the population gets a third, the next thirty percent gets another third, and the bottom sixty percent get the last third. If we divide the wealth of the US into thirds, we find that the top one percent own a third, the next nine percent own another third, and the bottom ninety percent claim the rest. (Actually, these percentages, true a decade ago, are now out of date. The top one percent are now estimated to own between forty and fifty percent of the nation's wealth, more than the combined wealth of the bottom 95%.) "

( George W. Bush, John F. Kerry, and Osama B. Laden are all members of the richest 1%, BTW - but I digress ... )

As Thom Hartmann put it, " For example, every year, millions of Americans revisit Charles Dickens "A Christmas Carol" about Ebenezer Scrooge and Bob (and Tiny Tim) Cratchit. Yet somehow Americans fail to realize the subtext of the story (and so many of Dickens' other works). That subtext is that the middle class is not a normal thing: exploited workers are the norm. In fact, in the six-thousand-year history of the "civilized" world, a middle class emerging in any nation has been such a rarity as to be historically invisible. " 

We are taught, almost from birth, that civilization began @ 5,000 years ago; we are also taught that money began @ 5,000 years ago. They want us to believe that we have to accept money if we want the benefits of civilization.

What if it's a lie?

It's Unnecessary

What if there was a technology that was pollution-free and so efficient, it obviated the " need " for money?

Richard Hoagland, in trying to figure out why some planets " radiate more energy out into space than they receive directly from the Sun ", created what he calls " The Hyperdimensional Model " . In it, he explains how 4D energy is " pulled down " into 3D by spinning bodies ( e.g., whirling dervishes, Neo spinning and hovering while fighting the Agents Smith in Matrix Reloaded ) - it's like " free " energy ( there's that word again ... ).

For those not versed in physics, an excellent intro to 4D is at http://tetraspace.alkaline.org/introduction.htm.

Some " conspiracy theorists " would say that the Secret Government already has this tech. However, because of The Culture Of Obedience, most of the " leaders " in business and government are quite stupid; so, it's entirely possible that they can't figure it out. Their modus operandi is to get us to figure it out for them, then declare that it's their property and charge us to use it just a little bit.

I have an even better idea :

We must eliminate money.

( Note: The people and websites referenced here have no affilition with the author, and do not necessarily endorse the ideas advocated in this article. )



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last edited by Jeffrey of Troy (2006-07-10 21:12:07)


We are all Kosh.

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#11 2006-07-10 21:19:01

tenetnosce
Another You
From: The Singularity
Registered: 2005-09-23

Re: A Banker on Banking

Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

I have an even better idea :

We must eliminate money.

Good info.  But in the place of money you would propose. . . . ?

Last edited by tenetnosce (2006-07-10 21:25:34)


It is not for us to understand love, but simply to make space for it.

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#12 2006-07-11 01:25:32

meta-agnostic
Member
Registered: 2006-01-05

Re: A Banker on Banking

tenetnosce wrote:

Actually, the problem is that coins ARE tangible money, and that their intrinsic worth is becoming more than their face value.   But yes, the programmed line is that tangible money is just too "inconvenient", or "unsafe".

That's what I meant, I don't think I worded it very well.  The really scary part is most of our society has now been brainwashed into seeing it the other way around:  you don't use a dollar bill to buy a hundred pennies, you use 100 pennies to "buy" a dollar bill.  It's been a multi-century process using Gresham's law and other neat Illuminati tricks to land us in our current state of affairs.  Now we really are to the point where copper, nickel and zinc have become our new "specie" for coinage, and people seriously talk about doing away with them as if it's a burden on the public.

I don't know how many people will catch on before They get done with whatever They are planning next, but I would love to see how things would have turned out if the Internet had been around in the Sixties.  People who would normally remain in the dark have the ability to catch on quick now.  No change could possibly come before the election, and afterwards it would still be a huge political mess unless it was quick, dirty, and preferably in the wake of a crisis.  That's why I'm really glad sinaptix posted the social credit parable; it's the only alternative I'm aware of, and I only understand it well enough to know it would be next-to-impossible to push through in the current political and monetary climate (switching over would have to involve some interim period of instability, right? and who's going to vote for that?).  Of course that could all change with some aliens landing publicly or some more buildings falling down.  Hopefully enough of the right people will be ready when whatever happens happens.

I wish I had more time to post about this, but I work for a living smile

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#13 2006-07-11 03:42:58

Hildegarde
Artist of the Spirit
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2005-07-11

Re: A Banker on Banking

Isn't slavery needed to learn about freedom?
I don't think we can change society because this lies in the fact that we cannot change other people only ourselves.
Money, or gold, or invisible credit, are all consensus mediums where there is an exchange of goods.
So what if the people who own the billions of dollars have it. They deserve it because they worked out how to do it. If they used evil strategies to do this, then they'll get punished for it by the Law of Cause and Effect. For if you control others, you will be controlled back in some way by the Law of Cause and Effect. Do not worry about the fairness. Universal Law will take care of it.


"The universe is on fire with wonder, beauty, and ecstasy." - From the Undines to Humanity

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#14 2006-07-11 21:34:55

Jeffrey of Troy
Member
Registered: 2006-03-20

Re: A Banker on Banking

Know yourself wrote:

But in the place of money you would propose. . . . ?

Indeed, how would that work? hmm How will we create a world bereft of money, poverty, crime, pollution, and war?

We start by asking the question, "How would that work?" It's a process; it will take some time to discover. Let's begin! smile


We are all Kosh.

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#15 2006-07-12 16:34:44

meta-agnostic
Member
Registered: 2006-01-05

Re: A Banker on Banking

Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

Know yourself wrote:

    But in the place of money you would propose. . . . ?

Indeed, how would that work? hmm How will we create a world bereft of money, poverty, crime, pollution, and war?

We start by asking the question, "How would that work?" It's a process; it will take some time to discover. Let's begin! smile

The real issue in these money threads as I see it is what should be the goal for our monetary system in the immediate and medium-term future?  As is particularly relevant to common topics on NR, one could also ask if there is even any need to worry about it since possible coming changes may bring an end to many of our current structures, with our current financial goose chase near the top of the list.

If we go along with the notion that fixing anything in the material world is still important, fixing money should be a top priority since in its current form it is a primary tool for controlling the population.  I think the link sinaptix posted:
http://www.realnews247.com/money_myth_exploded.htm
where the second half describes the idea of social credit, is a possibility that could be implemented under the right circumstances.  Raising awareness of ideas like this so they have a better chance of being implemented when the time is right seems like a good idea to me.  Unfortunately this is a rather abstruse topic and my own understanding of the mechanics of it is pretty limited, but I think it's the responsibility of anyone who understands it well to try and break it down for everyone else, rather than using the ignorance of others to steal from them as is currently popular in the world of finance.  I suspect there is even less of a social credit movement in the U.S. than in Canada because we are so attached to our dollar economy, and past events probably have anyone inclined to organize to oppose it scared witless.

tenetnosce wrote:

meta-agnostic wrote:

    Was anyone here alive and aware during the 1965-1971 period when the final stages of this lie were put into being? I've been trying to get some idea of how the general population reacted and if there was any semblance of organized opposition at all.

I wasn't there, though I can say that it was a lot easier once JFK was out of the way.  If you really want to blow your mind, do a little research on assassinated Presidents and their views on economic policy.

It is interesting that the first U.S. one dollar notes were issued during the Civil War, with the current Illuminati-symbol reverse making its debut in 1935, and the final form of the federal reserve $1 "bill" being distributed in late 1963 (before or after JFK's death?  I wish I knew).  And it's certainly a cruel and possibly deliberate irony that JFK's likeness on the half dollar was used as a primary means to ween the public off of silver coins.  Kennedy seemed to know something and I've read that he ordered more United States Notes as opposed to Federal Reserve Notes to be printed toward the end of his life.  And LBJ apparently ordered more silver dollars to be minted but congress overrode the order?!  I wish someone could decipher all this now, but like you said most people back then had more pressing concerns on their minds, conveniently enough.

One more thing to throw out, I know there are organizations like http://www.norfed.org out there with alternative currencies and intentions to abolish our current system, but I'm not sure they have exactly the right ideas in mind.  Any thoughts welcome.

I wish I had more time to pick this issue apart along with others on NR but I've been quite busy lately.  I enjoy reading everyone's ideas on how we might slay this beast!

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