1 (edited by SiriArc 2006-03-18 23:06:03)

Topic: Hydrogen

This was posted to:


Seekverta was previously noted at NR here:


[ORMUS] Digest Number 975


Message: 21       
   Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:44:38 -0000
   From: "seekverta"
Subject: Isn't Ormus Actually a Hydride..?  Very Long research Post

Hi Barry, Redder, everyone….

All of us have been trying desperately to develop ways to discover and
define exactly what Ormus is, exactly how and why it works. I've been
researching and studying this for many, many months. I think I might
be getting a little closer to understanding what Ormus really is, and
understanding what it really does, and I'd like you and others with a
background in chemistry to tell me if you believe my thinking and or
summations are correct...or where the flaws are. 

In trying to define Ormus, One first has to study and see the
directions the largest two Industries presently using these exotic
M-State substances are doing, and what they have discovered about
them.  These industries are the fuel-cell energy development industry
and the health supplement industry.  These two widely divergent
industries have made some progress in understanding Orme, M-state, or
what we call Ormus,they just use different terminology than we on the
Ormus lists use. 

When observing the developments in those two different industries some
correlations can be made, and we can learn more about what Ormus is
and what it does.  There are similarities between how Ormus works
within in the body (Health Industry) and how scientists in the
Fuel-Cell Battery Industry are using the Platinum Group Metal (PGMs)
and transition elements in producing ever-better batteries, and fuel

We know that Hudson's research was, and is, of current interest to the
fuel-cell industry because of the PGM's and Transition Elements'
potential for super-conductivity, which is basically the ability of a
substance to store and release large amounts of energy
`frictionlessly' (without losing any energy).  But what kind of energy
are they talking about here?  They are talking about the transfer of
Hydrogen ions in and out of the metallic substance, except they don't
call it metal, just like we don't.  We know that Ormus is a
non-metallic form of a metal element, a new state of matter. 

In the battery industry they use the term `intermetallic
compound,'…what they now define as the rare earth non-metal
metals….metals, so they claim, but which aren't actually metals. Of
course these industry scientists wouldn't want to use the term, ORME
or Ormus, would they, and have to admit they got their ideas
elsewhere?  But I think they are making and using the same things we
call Orme, Ormus, or M-State elements, capitalizing on Hudson's
original research.  Examples are: what they call the Nickel Metal
Hydride battery and the NiCad battery (Nickel-Cadmium/
`rechargeable'), and fuel cells, all made using hydrides of those
non-metallic metals, or `intermetallic compounds.'  In the larger,
more powerful fuel-cells, they are using Palladium and Platinum
`intermetallic compounds.'    And, of course, we know those metals as
either PGMs or Transition Elements near the PGM's.

The unique properties of the PGM and transition elements are beginning
to be exploited for industrial applications.   Platinum, platinum
alloys and iridium are used as crucible materials for the growth of
single crystals, especially oxides.  The chemical industry uses a
significant amount of various PGM's like platinum or a
platinum-rhodium alloy as catalysts in the form of gauze to catalyze
the partial oxidation of ammonia to yield nitric oxide, which is the
raw material for fertilizers, explosives, and nitric acid.  In recent
years, a number of PGM have become important as catalysts in synthetic
organic chemistry.  Ruthenium dioxide is used as coatings on
dimensionally stable titanium anodes used in the production of
chlorine and caustic.   

Platinum-supported catalysts are used in the refining of crude oil,
reforming, and other processes used in the production of high-octane
gasoline and aromatic compounds for the petrochemical industry.  Since
1980s, the automotive industry has emerged as the principal consumer
of PGMs.  Palladium, platinum, and rhodium have been used as oxidation
catalysts in catalytic converters to treat automobile exhaust
emissions.  A wide range of PGM alloy compositions is used in
low-voltage and low-energy contacts, thick- and thin-film circuits,
thermocouples and furnace components, and electrodes.  But these
applications use primarily the metal forms, but that's not true for
the fuel-cell industry, which uses the non-metal forms.

However, at TibetanGold our interest is the tremendous hydrogen
absorption characteristics of the non-metal or Ormus forms.  When
these non-metal forms draw hydrogen into themselves it actually
appears to become a  a `hydride' of that substance.  A `hydride is
defined in industry as:  a chemical compound of hydrogen with other
elements. Originally, the term hydride was reserved strictly for
compounds containing hydride ions, usually in combination with metals,
but the definition has been broadened recently to encompass to
compounds (usually simple binary) involving hydrogen in direct bond
with another element.  PGM and Transition element Hydrides are what
they use in Nickel Hydride, and Nickel Cadmium hydride batteries.  It
appears all the transition elements and PGM's can form `hydrides.'
What makes transitional metal hydride bonds interesting is the fact
that they are `interstitial' in nature.

So industry uses these exotic new non-metal metals to form non-metal
hydrides because of their amazing `hydrogen ion
collection/storage/transfer characteristics.'  I believe the the human
body machine) uses them for exactly the same functions, utilizing the
same metal and non metal characteristics that excites industry.

We know that the non-metal forms of transitional and PGM metals, form
a lattice, similar to that of crystals, and within those lattices, are
what is called `interstial sites.'  In the formation of  metal
`hydrides' Hydrogen atoms dissociate and Hydrogen ions are collected
by the substance and settle (or fix themselves) into the octahedral or
tetrahedral holes in the non-metal `Bosonic' (molecular) crystal-like
lattices, at interstitial sites.  Interstitial hydrides, then, often
have a non-stoichiometric nature. 

(Stoichiometry defines the relationship of the quantity of a substance
taking part in the formation of a compound; it describes a
`magnitude,' or `quantitative,' or 'attraction' relationship between
the elements forming the compound.   For example, a compound like
water requires 2 hydrogen atoms (ions) and 1 Oxygen atom (ion) to form
that compound…when they come together and a bond forms, it is then
stoic, or `fixed' in that precise combination; the Oxygen atom will
take on no more additional hydrogen.

However, in a non-stoichiometric substance such as the non-mettallic
forms of the PGMs and the transition elements, there seems to almost
be no limit to how much Hydrogen those nano-diatoms or quantum-sized
bosons will take on.  They appear to be rather insatiable, in fact.
They are non-stoichiometric in nature.   And I think because of that
stoichiometric nature that is why when we precipitate `wet-method'
Ormus using Sodium Hydroxide, we reach a plateau before we get to that
sometimes elusive 10.78 pH. It takes time for those little bosons to
engorge themselves on the available Hydrogen.  We have to keep adding
more and more Sodium Hydroxide, making more and more Hydrogen
available to them, until they stuff themselves completely full. And
the same is true when doing the Hudson patent procedure on raw gold.
The nitric acid breaks down the gold, the Hydrochloric acid is
infusing the Hydrogen which the tiny elemental units are collecting
until they reveal themselves as white powder.  That's why we have to
keep adding the HCl over and over again making more and more Hydrogen
available to them.) 

Hydrogen atoms are sucked up and get trapped in the metallic-like
lattices of the PGMs and TMs non-metals as they act like a `Hydrogen
sponge' and that Hydrogen can migrate throughout it, reacting with the
element, sometimes making it `brittle.' The Hydrogen atoms can
actually change the nature of the substance and its appearance, sort
of like crystallizing it, from its state into a new form of material.
In material engineering this is known as Hydrogen embrittlement. But
it appears that `embrittlement' can be reversed by extracting the
Hydrogen atoms wherein the non-metallic metal can change back to its
original state when it releases its load of the hydrogen atoms. This
is a unique and distinguishing characteristic of the PGMs and
transition metals in their non-metallic form.

As an example, there is a distinct reason why the fuel-cell battery
companies are so interested and doing much reasearch into the PGM's
and other transition metals for use in fuel cells. It so happens that
certain of the PGM's can store an exponential amount of Hydrogen.  It
is now known that Palladium as a `hydride' or Palladium hydride, in
the presence of Hydrogen. The scientists truthfully admit to not fully
understanding it as a compound, and which industry chemists can't
quite define, but they think it is possibly (Pd2H), but I am beginning
to believe it is not that, but rather a form of visable M-state or
Ormus. They don't know what it is, but they can't stand not knowing,
they want to name it, as they have an uncontrollable penchant tod,
they want to assign it a formula…but the fact is they don't know for
sure what it is because they admit not being able to define the
quantitative feature of the Hydrogen. in fact they don't really know
if it is, or how it is bonded. They just know it collects an
inexplicable amount of Hydrogen.

They think what happens is this: The diHydrogen molecule (H2) shares
an electron with the Palladium in some, as they say,  `yet unknown
manner,' (so say the industrial chemical engineers working on the
research), and the Hydrogen hides itself within the spaces of the
Palladium intermetal compound's molecular crystalline-like structure. 

Palladium as a hydride then, so they say, quickly absorbs up to, at
least 600 times its own weight of Hydrogen ions at room temperatures
and is therefore considered a means to carry Hydrogen for powerful
fuel cells, with adequate material you get enough energy to power a
car. Hydrogen gas can be liberated form its host proportional to the
applied temperature and pressure but not to the chemical composition.
Now, to me that's very interesting!

So these battery companies have been doing a lot of research for the
past decade and a half developing these PGM and Transitional metal
non-metal hydrides knowing that the exotic materials have a tremendous
ability to readily absorb and discharge Hydrogen at room temperature
and atmospheric pressure. And what they are calling these
`intermetallic compounds' they also call, `solid-solution alloys,' I
have come to believe that they are nothing more or less than various
forms of David Hudson's Orme or Ormus, called by the scientist's own
creative, but different names.

My principal interest at TibetanGold is in knowing and understanding
what Ormus is, how it works and effects the human body and its health
improvement, not necessarily these industrial applications.  I don't
make batteries, nor am I planning to get into fuel-cell production.
However, I believe there are some direct correlations in the non-metal
characteristics of Ormus we can understand from the battery industry,
and how those pertain to human health and Ormus use within the human
body. That industrial research tells us something about the several
Ormus characteristics applied in the battery industry (on their
`intermetallic compounds' or solid-solution alloys').   

I've come to believe with an expanded, widened view that these new
industrial terminologies may in fact be the same things that we
understand and define as `Ormus,' and that 'health-use or ingestible
Ormus' behaves inside the body the same ways it does in the industrial

And if that is true, then what Ormus is, what it does inside the body,
how it works, and what it does inter-cellularly, might be easier
understood by studying these industrial applications, what industry is
doiing with these `mystery substances'.  I'm interested in this
`Hydrogen collection/storage/release characteristic' which is a
distinctive, and remarkable characteristic of these PGM's and
transition elements as they change themselves into what are called in
Chemitry 'hydrides'.   

I want to know how and why that Hydrogen collection/releasing
attribute of these special non-metal-metal hydrides affect the human
body, how does this `extra Hydrogen storage/releasing capability' aid
in the healing of diseases and damaging illnesses?  How and why does
Ormus as a carrier of Hydrogen relieve pains in muscles and joints,
and what part does this substance's Hydrogen collection/releasing
characteristic play in stimulating higher brain activity, calming
emotionality, affecting sleep…? 

Could it be that M-state PGMs and transition metals may only be unique
and specialized collection/delivery systems for Hydrogen into the
body?  What we all want to know is, is it the M-state substance itself
that which is the beneficial factor in human health as we have come to
believe, or is it the the Hydrogen whih it is able to uniquely and
specifically deliver and place into the cells, that is the beneficial
factor colledcted/stored/delivered by the M-state?   Are those unique
and `special' kinds of Hydrogen in the various hydrides the true
`Prima Materia' sought by ancient and modern Alchemists seeking the
Universal Medicine?   Industry research tells us that the Hydrogen is
the power, is the energy, and is the sought after `energy pearl' of
our fuel source future.

I have always been taught that the most vital factor in all health is
Oxygen...but I'm not so sure now.  Certainly, Oxygen plays its vital
part in the functioning of the human body.  But this Oxygen is also
the source of cell oxidation creating 'free radicals (Oxidants)' as a
by-product of metabolism. And those `free radicals' are the major
cause of `aging.'  It is now recognized that `free radicals' are the
contributing causes to more than 60 diseases, such as heart disease,
cataracts and the rheumatoid form of arthritis.  I am beginning to
understand, however, that Hydrogen may be, in fact,  equally or even
more important to human health and body functioning than oxygen…and
that, it is Hydrogen which serves to neutralize `free radicals' in
their destructive rampage through the human body, as well as energize
every cell of the body, from our toes to our brain. It's the Hydrogen
ions which does that energizing, not the Oxygen. Hydrogen is the
inter-cellular fuel for each cell, just like it is in a battery cell.

Hydrogen gets into the cells of the body to perform that its
anti-oxidizing function several ways. It comes in through breathing,
along with Oxygen.  And, of course, when we are breathing the `right'
air, and using `proper breathing techniques' is when intake is
optimized. Both the techniques and the quality of the ionized air are
important to  health. Some religious practices in Hinduism and
Buddhism are built around proper breathing techniques, including
meditation. However, I think we've long overlooked the importance of
that Hydrogen as an essential element within that breathing process.
Hydrogen also enters the body through the plant foods we eat, as

Hydrogen is also a main constituent making up the phyto-nutrients,
phenols and polyphenols, alkaloids, poly-alkaloids, and Vitamins in
plant stems and leaves.  Though she may not have known exactly why,
it's the reason Mom always told you to eat your vegetables … for the
body needs the Hydrogen provided by those vgetables.  Whenever a pair
of Hydrogen ions (given-off by the digestion of phyto-nutrients)
encounter one of those destructive `free radicals' roaming
indiscriminately through the body, they grab it and form a water
molecule. So, in addition to providing energy nutrition, Hydrogen is
very necessary for proper `hydration' of the body.

However, by over-farming or forced industrial farming, food plants
provided in a mass society supermarket fashion are sorely lacking in
an abundance of adequate phyto-nutrients, and thus sufficient Hydrogen
for the body's needs.  It is, I believe, the very reason why when fed
or provided Ormus in the soils, we have seen deliriously happy plants
which grow leaves and produce, 2, 3 and 4 times larger, and greener,
than plants without the Ormus supplements.  But the question has
become, is it the mineral Ormus content which is causing that uncommon
`extra' growth and fruiting, or is it the more abundant Hydrogen held
and released within that Ormus which spurs on that extra growth and
health of the plants? 

We han now show that the non-metal or M-state PGM and Transitional
metal minerals (as Hydrides of the various kinds of Ormus), deliver to
the plants (through the soil) an additional abundance (500-600 times
more) hydrogen than non-Ormus-treated plants are getting through
ordinary soil.  Is it the actually the Ormus minerals doing this or is
the Ormus' as a collector/deliverer/releaser of unbelievable amounts
of impregnated Hydrogen ions to the soil/plant which is responsible?

Hydrogen is one of the primordial elements that fuel the development
of all life on Earth. Hydrogen is provided by the Sun as rays of
light, and human beings cannot live without That's also why one can
'charge Ormus, or Ormus water by placeing it in direct sunlight, moer
Hydrogen from the Sun as source.

While science refers to humans as carbon-based life forms, man is
actually a mineral-based and Hydrogen-based life form. All life on
Earth is Hydrogen-based. When plants absorb sunlight, they store
negatively-charged Hydrogen ions through the process of
photosynthesis. When a human absorbs sunlight, the human body's organs
use that Hydrogen in the form of light energy to make vitamins, as in
Vitamin D and others.  When unprocessed plants are eaten, the body's
cells utilize the the Hydrogen bearing nutrients in those plants and,
perhaps more importantly, they utilize that electrical charge of the
Hydrogen ions in those plants. The body's systems burn Hydrogen and
Oxygen, providing the energy generated for every single process of
life. It is a fact; nearly every life form on the planet utilizes
Hydrogen and Oxygen in combination to generate its energy. It is a
fact, that without Hydrogen, there is no life.  The importance of
hydrogen is becoming more and more recognized.

Hydrogen is the simpliest, smallest known element in the Universe. All
living things must have Hydrogen to sustain life.  Hydrogen then is
the actual key to life, death, and aging, more so than Oxygen. Without
Hydrogen ions, there would be no life on Earth.

In recent years, in the Health Supplement Industry, there has been a
large growth in the use of what they call `Silica Hydride' as an
amazing (or the newest [ha-ha] world's best) anti-oxidant.   Now sure,
there's a lot of hype in what they say…but I believe there's some
truth in it too. 

Each of us can remember in the David Hudson research lectures or
scripts where Mr. Hudson stated that more often than not Orme
substances in spectroscopy testing either did not read, or sometimes
they did read as mostly silica (or Al or Fe). Producers in the Health
industry are getting the same kinds of spectroscopy readings, and they
believe what they are selling is actually silica in a hydride form.
Health Industry scientists now believe that negatively-charged
Hydrogen ions can determine the overall health of every cell in the
human body…. the quantity of Hydrogen ions in the body is the
qualitative indicator of body's energy potential…and that Hydrogen
ions are the key fuel and energy source for the human body.  This is
the same finding observed by the industrial battery industry.

Well, guess where most of the `silica hydride' supplement producers
and sellers obtain their `silica hydride' substances....?  It is being
derived most often from what is called `glacial milk.'  Glacial Milk
is a name given to run-off water from high altitude streams and lakes
fed by melting glaciers, and it comes from places like the Himalayas,
the Andes, and the Alps.  It's the same kind of ancient water which
TibetanGold uses in our products from High altitude salt lakes.  The
stream water is sometimes so rich with minerals that it looks a bit
`milky.'  Sometimes they are retrieving it from sea water, but its
apparently not as prolific as the `glacial milk, and they have to
remove a lot of other minerals from it to get to, what call, the
`silica hydride.'

The health supplement producers precipitate these minerals out of that
high altitude glacial milk water (which they note has a very high zeta
potential) to obtain the `silica hydride' and it IS a mineral hydride,
and they also report it loses its efficacy when dried.  Now that
sounds a lot like my experiences when drying `wet method' Ormus which
appears to have less efficacy when the water (H2O) and Hydrogen is
driven off by drying. 

And these health study findings are why there is a large rise in
marketing, sales and consumption of mineral-rich and structured
bottled waters these days.  It is because `with the water' these
minerals become hydrides and deliver a lot of energy into the body in
the form of Hydrogen ions…it's not the minerals alone which give that
energy, but rather it's the abundance of Hydrogen which they store,
deliver and release into the body that provide the energy, rejuvenation. 

It is true that the PGMs and transition elements have many and various
healing characteristics within themselves, like the annihilation  of
certain nano-bacteria, as with the colloidals, and with metallic gold.

Some even say that the hydrochloric acid in the stomach Ormusifies the
colloidal metal particles of the colloids, and with the water
suspension carrier, their favored collectible companion, Hydrogen. Not
the other way around ,Like I've heard some on the list purport Ormus
changing back to a metal.  It's also why we need to always drink more
water, to make sure our bodies have sufficient source water to
activate and sustain the beneficial effects of the hydrogen-laden Ormus

When Ormus-makers precipitate diluted salt water using Sodium
Hydroxide, they are `raising' the pH (parts Hydrogen) in the solution,
making more and more Hydrogen available for the Ormus bosons to
collect.  If any M-State PGM or transition metals are present in the
solution, they begin to reveal themselves as they become more and more
impregnated with Hydrogen ion atoms, which they have the unique
characteristic ability to extract from the solution in tremendous
amounts. They remain invisible and undetectable until they collect
(absorb) enough hydrogen to become visible and heavier.  As that
Hydrogen collection is taking place by the `Bosonic' M-State forms of
the PGMs and Transition metals, they become heavier and heavier and
fall out of the solution as a collection of many different M-State or
Ormus mineral `hydrides.' A portion of the water is also consumed in
the process, because without water a hydride cannot form. 

Many people have wondered….is there really any Ormus in that
precipitate..? How can it be proven…?  Now, I believe I can honestly
say, Yes...I can prove there's Ormus in there, because if actual Ormus
(non-metal bosons of PGMs and TMs) weren't in there, there would be no
precipitation.  Try to precipitate laboratory distilled water, you
won't get any precipitate.  Some municipal waters or pure de-Sal-sea
water reveals no precipitates. And that's also why, I believe, some
source material may yield more or sometime less precipitate, based
upon the amount of actual Ormus minerals in them, but we can't know
those little quantum `bosons' are in there until we give them a chance
to `collect' Hydrogen. But the key factor here is, not necessarily the
Ormus; I believe it is the availability of usable Hydrogen which
causes them to reveal themselves.

I've also noticed that when Ormus is placed in a magnetic blender,
yes, it beome 'charged,' and the volume increases fluffed up by
additional air, but what is confusing, it gets slightly heavier too. I
think that's because the magnets and the vortex spinning causes the
Ormus to shift and allowsthem to take on even more Hydrogen ions,
which its why its reads with additional charge.

Imagine those various little invisible sub-nano-sized non-metal
mineral `bosons' sucking-up and capturing 500-600 times their weight
in available Hydrogen to make themselves into non-metal hydrides, and
becoming visible.  Then imagine that when you consume that ingestible
Ormus precipitate, those little Hydrogen-hyper-laden `bosons'
circulating throughout the body, and dropping their Hydrogen ion loads
wherever they might be needed to energize, to coat and protect, to
anti-oxidize, to rehydrate cells, to sterilize and cleanse, to
catalyze and remove heavy metals, to form and create vitamins.  This
is what the nutrition industry is claiming.  I believe they just might
be right, that these mineral hydrides deliver and release tremendous
volumes of Hydrogen ions into the body. And there is no conflict with
this view between the nutrition industry and the battery industry,
because they are using these non-metal `intermetallic compounds' for
the same Hydrogen energy storage/delivery/release characteristics to
make better batteries.

Sometimes the biggest questions in science and medicine are answered
by the smallest particle entities, both chemical and biological. I
think we might have been over-looking and missing the great importance
of Hydrogen, and it takes Ormus to show us. The paradigms of the past,
in both chemistry and bio-medicine are no longer adequate to allow
complete understanding and continuing progress.  There are other new
misunderstandings out there, and inside us, which require that we
develop and begin utilizing new paradigms.  Like understanding the
actual yet unknown effects of certain nano- or quantum particles on
the physical environment, or in health sciences, the effects of
`nano-bacteria,' (which cause arthritis) and nano-viruses, such as
`prions,' which are now known to cause among other things, mad cow
disease. And, how about the old paradigm which suggests, that the
greater part of our DNA is merely junk.  I don't think so!  Just
because the old science can't see a use in it, doesn't make it junk DNA.

Seekverta is Tibetan Gold:




11   23   11

Re: Hydrogen

Another Perspective:


Some might be familiar with the name:

Vinney Pinto


Sun Gazing

and / or:

Effective Microorganisms


11   23   11

Re: Hydrogen

Thanks for the post SiriArc!