31 Reply by Ayahuasca (edited by Ayahuasca 2005-09-02 03:02:54)

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

I think Tim Boucher just made some excellent points about the Hurricane

Tim Boucher wrote:

...But don’t get me wrong: theorizing is great. Unplugging yourself from mass media is a tremendous step. And critical thinking is an absolute necessity. But you’ve got to actually use it for it to be any good. So let’s do a simple test, multiple choice. You tell me which is more likely:

   1. Some super-secret government cabal engineered a hurricane for inexplicable political purposes
   2. A hurricane occured during - gasp! - hurricane season

COME ON! This is a no brainer! It’s number one, obviously! But seriously, this type of questioning is rapidly becoming completely useless to me, and I’m going to have build a levee against it here. Asking questions is an absolutely essential part of life. But you’ve gotta watch where they’re taking you. And there’s a point with all this stuff where it pays to stop worrying about what’s true, or what’s remotely possible, and start thinking about what’s actually useful. Is thinking crazy stuff about the government controlling the weather useful? Or does it put you into some kind of whacked out Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God mindset where God has been substitute with Government?

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/ … ne-katrina

For those that aren't familiar with Tim, his blog is one of the best out there IMO. He's certainly not anti-conspiracy theory, it's one of his favourite subjects, but he does like to apply critical thinking as much as possible.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

32 Reply by Marcus (edited by Marcus 2005-09-02 05:12:37)

  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

For what it's worth Andy I agree with Tim Boucher's point.  However what still remains are some very important questions - whether they are of a current "practical" nature or not.

1)  Why is the relief effort so slow?
2)  Why is the government response seemingly bogged down and taking days to get anywhere?
3)  Why is the media not spending much focus on issues 1 and 2?  (Admittedly if you do read "between the lines" on most reports you can see that most the media actually is questioning this...but the point remains it is not happen very openly).

So all said and done - it really doesn't help – for the moment at least - to question why this hurricane happened (after all it did occur in hurricane season.  Although there are some very valid points to make later with regards to the state and lack of funding on the levees).

At any rate points and answers that would be useful right now:

a)  The people in New Orleans need resources (Where are the air drops?  How come the media can get into New Orleans but aid workers cannot?)

b)  Why are the authorities still having trouble finding places to relocate these people to.  Okay yes there are near half a million people.  But come on already, it has been nearly 3 full days!!.  Where are the make shift camps?  Where are the temporary housing structures??

c)  Why did congress take 48 hours to come up with a response which lets face it only turns out to be the mediocrity of funding.

There are so many more questions - and none of them are in the conspiracy or metaphysical categories.  These are all practical everyday questions.  Questions that we shouldn't even be in the position of needing to ask.  Yes this is a massive disaster.  But I cannot believe that the US Government is this incompetent.

Personally I would love nothing more than to go to New Orleans and help those poor people - but in reality that isn't going to happen...nor really would it make much difference.  So right now the "practical" questions are the ones I have just asked.

I cannot understand why very few other people are asking these very questions.  And so many people are unwilling to face these questions – as they come up with all manner of justifications.  (And I cannot believe the attitudes of so many people here in the UK - which let’s face it, is one of utter indifference (for the most part)).

And no one - no one can tell me that both the public emotional response, and the US Government response to this entire fiasco hasn’t now once and for all highlighted – and begun a very dangerous solidification of - peoples inner spiritual aspects and attitudes.  (Part of me can’t help but think this is partially the point. EDIT:  I also think - like many others do - that there is an element to all this that is entirely metaphysical.  Partially along the lines of what Stuart Wilde has described, but also with many other aspects.  We can't really just look at this from a 3d - or even a 3d "conspiracy" point of view, because clearly there is so much more going on here.  Not just in New Orleans, but within the worlds reaction to all this).

For me - this disaster has shown the world and a hell of a lot of people (both people I know personally and people I know from online forums and conversations) in their true light...and whilst a lot of them have turned out to be genuinely caring people…so many have begun to show some true ugliness…

Thought Manifestation

Marcus's Website

33 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-09-02 06:02:54)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Ayahuasca wrote:

For those that aren't familiar with Tim, his blog is one of the best out there IMO. He's certainly not anti-conspiracy theory, it's one of his favourite subjects, but he does like to apply critical thinking as much as possible.

He sounds like an arrogant bastard to me.

No offense.

I read the full blog entry that you linked to, and he's falling for the same stupid black/white, either/or, "You only get two flavors to choose from" thinking.

Why does it have to be a choice between   1) Either the hurricane was COMPLETELY generated and controlled by Man in some huge conspiracy effort to _________ (fill in the blank) or, 2) It was completely natural because it's hurricane season, so move it along folks, nothing to see here! 

???

What about choice #3:   The hurricane formed naturally, cause it is hurricane season and all, DUH, but maybe somebody somewhere sorta kinda tweaked it a liiiiiiiittle bit.....amped it up a few notches....tried to fan the flames.......who knows.

And if he wants to argue against the fact that the technology exists to do such things, and that it HAS been used, then he's an idiot.  I haven't read the rest of his blog so I don't know what his so-called conspiracy beliefs are, so, maybe later when I have a moment I'll peruse the rest of his site.   But so far I'm not impressed. 

Then there's the next "2 Choice Mistake" that comes up in this argument.   1)  The Gov't was completely behind this in some big conspiracy plot, and so they were VERY much expecting this, and were the masterminds behind it, so now they're rubbing their hands together in giddy glee, or, 2)  They were completely unprepared for it and are just as baffled as we are, and that's why they're running in circles of ineptitude.

Hmm.   How about Choice #3, although it's certainly not the only choice.  There are more.  But one major one would be   3) The **mainstream** government wasn't behind it, nor expecting it, nor prepared for it.   But what about the **secret shadow / black ops factions** of the government.  You know..............the ones we're not supposed to know about.   wink  The ones who run the underground bases that abductees have been taken to.  The ones with the technology that's not supposed to exist.  Doing things that aren't supposed to be possible.  wink

Just a thought. 

Anyway, he sounds arrogant, and he's falling for the typical 2 Choices scenario.  So-called level headed skeptics and those who like to believe they're thinking within reason usually make this mistake, surprisingly.   I don't know why that is.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

34 Reply by impatiens

  • impatiens
  • Guest

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Marcus wrote:

a)  The people in New Orleans need resources (Where are the air drops?  How come the media can get into New Orleans but aid workers cannot?)
…

There is a print journalist from Toronto, canada on the ground in NOLA, reporting from there in today's paper. She got in. So your goddamed right, why can't the aid workers get in?

I posted a new thread, Tales of woe shame a nation, pls read it.

35 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-09-02 08:44:59)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

impatiens wrote:
Marcus wrote:

a)  The people in New Orleans need resources (Where are the air drops?  How come the media can get into New Orleans but aid workers cannot?)
…

There is a print journalist from Toronto, canada on the ground in NOLA, reporting from there in today's paper. She got in. So your goddamed right, why can't the aid workers get in?

I posted a new thread, Tales of woe shame a nation, pls read it.

I just read that Harry Connick Jr., a native of New Orleans whose dad was their District Attorney for 29 years, was walking around, mingling amongst the refugees.

So I thought the same thing.........................wait a minute..................how is HE able to get in and out like that?!??!  What about everybody else?!?!!?

I think we're asking too many questions here.   Maybe it's best if we shut off our brains.  roll

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/SHOWBIZ/09/02/katrina.celebrity.ties.ap/top.connick.ap.jpg
"Harry Connick Jr. at the New Orleans convention center Thursday."

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

36 Reply by Ayahuasca (edited by Ayahuasca 2005-09-02 07:13:17)

  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

lyra wrote:

He sounds like an arrogant bastard to me.

No offense.

None taken, but I don't think it's very nice to call someone an arrogant bastard just because they offer a different perspective that you don't agree with. A little harsh don't you think?

I've been reading Tim's blog for quite a few months now and he comes across as a genuniely nice guy. I certainly don't always agree with what he writes but he never ceases to write in a thoughtful and intelligent manner. And I find that helpful. Because even when you don't agree with someone it's always useful to understand the other side of the argument.

I think too many conspiracy minded people are too quick to look for a conspiracy in absolutely everything that happens to the point where they lose all sense of reason. It goes from being free thinking to the point where it just becomes lazy thinking in my opinion.

I think Tim's main point there was that it's disempowering to always have a conspiratorial mindset about everything, which is something I agree with wholeheartedly.

I'm fully open to the possibility that Katrina was manufactured, but ultimately it's completely impossible to prove (unlike say 9/11 where evidence is obvious & abundant). Nobody will ever find any evidence for this other than faint whisperings and rumours of secret government technology that nobody will ever know is real or not. Therefore I think it's pointless getting all hung up over whether THEY caused this or not. But certainly let's discuss all the implications of this event and where do we all go from here now that it's happened.

Back to Tim for a second. He made a very short post about critical thinking quite recently, which I found interesting, and it certainly caused me to think about a lot of things in a different way, which is  always a good thing. I can't honestly say I'm a great critical thinker, and I know it's not the be all and end all of everything because intuition can be very important. Anyway his post was:

Tim Boucher wrote:

Critical Thinking Questions

Wikipedia’s entry on critical thinking has a nice set of questions to ask which I think are readily adaptable to spiritual and occult research and especially conversation:

       1. What do you mean by_______________?
       2. How did you come to that conclusion?
       3. Why do you believe that you are right?
       4. What is the source of your information?
       5. What happens if you are wrong?
       6. Can you give me two sources who disagree with you and explain why?
       7. Why is this significant?
       8. How do I know you are telling me the truth?
       9. What is an alternate explanation for this phenomenon?

There’s just so much power packed into these questions. They are so simple, but can teach you so much and can be so potentially devastating in an argument. Great stuff.

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

37 Reply by lyra (edited by lyra 2005-09-02 08:39:36)

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Ayahuasca wrote:
lyra wrote:

He sounds like an arrogant bastard to me.

No offense.

None taken, but I don't think it's very nice to call someone an arrogant bastard just because they offer a different perspective that you don't agree with. A little harsh don't you think?

Yeah, it is harsh.  I think I need to give the bad news a break today, cause it's starting to wear me down.  Today, everybody has been an idiot, asshole, or arrogant bastard. tongue   



Ayahuasca wrote:

I think too many conspiracy minded people are too quick to look for a conspiracy in absolutely everything that happens to the point where they lose all sense of reason. It goes from being free thinking to the point where it just becomes lazy thinking in my opinion.

That's very true, I've debated with some people who were kinda bordering on that mentality.  EVERYTHING is a far flung conspiracy to them, and let's face it, not everything is.   Sometimes, an incident should be taken at face value for what it initially appears to be.




Ayahuasca wrote:

I'm fully open to the possibility that Katrina was manufactured, but ultimately it's completely impossible to prove (unlike say 9/11 where evidence is obvious & abundant). Nobody will ever find any evidence for this other than faint whisperings and rumours of secret government technology that nobody will ever know is real or not. Therefore I think it's pointless getting all hung up over whether THEY caused this or not.  But certainly let's discuss all the implications of this event and where do we all go from here now that it's happened.

That's true as well.  We'll just never know for sure.   As far as whether gov't weather technology is real, I say, of course it's real, because the average Schmoe can make their own cloud busting devises...which work, and get results.

Check it out:   I was leaving work in Florida one afternoon, and I was facing East on Sunrise Boulevard, and I see this nasty looking storm brewing / forming over by the beach.  The clouds are all dark blue gray black, there's lightning, it just looks scary, and I'm going, DAMN!!  What the hell!  Wow!   So I go home, change, and go over to Tom's (montalk's) then apartment which was right there where the storm was centered, and come to find out that he and a friend of his who was visiting have this aluminum cloudbusting tube devise pointed up towards the sky!   I walk into his apartment and see the big weird metal tube thing and I just started LAUGHING and was like, "DID YOU SEE WHAT YOU GUYS DID OUT THERE!"  haha    That night there was this WICKED lightning storm right over that part of Fort Lauderdale.   I got pics.  People were talking about it the next day at work!    And I'm just laughing to myself, going hehe, hehe!   My boyfriend did that!   hehe!  hehe!  big_smile   

Tom also did a demonstration with this same tube over at Laura and Ark's house in New Port Richey, FL and within a half an hour of pointing it at the sky, a violent hail storm formed right over head and pummeled the town with hail the size of golf balls...............for the first time ever in New Port Richey's history.   The hail balls were was so big they ripped holes in Laura and Ark's awning.  I saw the damage during a future visit. 

So point being, if this much damage could be wrought by a regular person using a simple aluminum tube, just IMAGINE what the government can do.   So you're right, we don't have direct proof, and probably never will.  But I have my proof that a regular person can do this with supplies purchased from a hardware store.   So we need to take that and extrapolate from there, realizing what the implications are.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

  • From: NOTHING
  • Registered: 2004-09-03

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

montalk wrote:

To add to the conspiracy,  HAARP was active Aug 24-30 repeating every day a sequence of pulsations.

I finally clicked to the possibility that these pulsations could have been the weapon used to destroy the levies.

I am as is Void.
  • From: NOTHING
  • Registered: 2004-09-03

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

According to George W. Bush, the situation in New Orleans will be alleviated by (and I quote) "CAPTURING the great spirit of America."

I am as is Void.
  • From: Peru
  • Registered: 2004-08-06

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Well it looks like either Tim is a reader of Noble Realms, or someone alerted him to our discussion, but I promise you it wasn't me:

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/ … -rages-on/

Join me in Peru to celebrate December 21st 2012 - Visit: http://2012awakeningretreat.com/

Ayahuasca's Website

41 Reply by Xenopope (edited by Xenopope 2005-09-02 15:26:19)

  • From: NOTHING
  • Registered: 2004-09-03

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Tim Boucher wrote:

One person said I sounded like an “arrogant bastard”  for not only suggesting to people that hurricanes happen naturally all the time, but that it’s both pointless and personally disempowering to believe there’s some secret evil government cabal controlling even nature.

Mr. Bouchet, please consider the possibility that there are indeed evil government cabals who are controlling nature.

http://www.weatherwars.info/

http://www.radarmatrix.com/

http://www.cheniere.org/

Tim Boucher wrote:

I know no more than anybody else who’s read stuff on the internet which is both titillating and unprovable. It may exist. It may even be used. But here’s the really important part where people seem to lose what I’m saying: so what? What does that matter? How does knowing that or thinking that help you or me or anybody effected by such things?.

Knowledge is power. Knowing and accepting the reality is the first step in doing anything about it. Until you begin to think on the levels of those in control, you won't reach your full potential in combating it.

Tim Boucher wrote:

The next thing you know you’ll be wailing in despair, “Oh god, if they can control the weather, there’s no stopping them!"

I would suggest this reaction to be the exception and not the rule.

Tim Boucher wrote:

And if you decide to believe the government engineered all this or is happy about it, then you’re losing.

lyra wrote:

He sounds like an arrogant [edit] to me.

Hmmmmm . . .

Tim Boucher wrote:

Pretend they either don’t exist or that they are so small that they’re no match for you and your friends. Cause really, they aren’t.

GOOD POINT.

Tim Boucher wrote:

You, your friends, your family - those are all real and tangible. George W. Bush, secret government agencies, those are all fantasies, smoke and mirrors. The things you think they are are inventions of the mind,

Isn't it ALL an invention of the mind?

I am as is Void.
  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

sigh.

Okay, I formally publicly apologize for saying that Tim Boucher sounded like an arrogant bastard. sad  Not that it's an excuse, but, I'd been reading too much bad news then read his material, and got snippy.  It was a bit harsh, as Ayahuasca said, and rash.   

Altogther now, let's sing! "I'm sorry..............soooo sorrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee..."

smile

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

  • Registered: 2004-10-15

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Ayahuasca wrote:

Well it looks like either Tim is a reader of Noble Realms, or someone alerted him to our discussion, but I promise you it wasn't me:

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/ … -rages-on/

Haha

*yawn*

(naughty girl lyra... big_smile  )

Thought Manifestation

Marcus's Website

  • lyra
  • lyra
  • Naked Emperor Pointer Outer
  • Offline
  • From: my own private idaho
  • Registered: 2004-03-25

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Marcus wrote:
Ayahuasca wrote:

Well it looks like either Tim is a reader of Noble Realms, or someone alerted him to our discussion, but I promise you it wasn't me:

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/ … -rages-on/

Haha

*yawn*

(naughty girl lyra... big_smile  )

Well, I do feel bad.  I hope he sees this...........!

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
-----
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."
-----

lyra's Website

45 Reply by Lakme (edited by Lakme 2005-09-02 20:14:49)

  • Registered: 2004-08-27

Re: My take on Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath

Lyra,

Well you may "feel bad" for the (accurate) comment, but I will state after reading his (Tim Boucher) column, that he IS an ARROGANT BASTARD, and I stand by that. And Xenopope, as usual, you are right on the money with your posts here.

DJ