Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

I was going to post this in the "mind controlled celebrities" thread, but I searched around and found this thread, which is probably more appropriate.

If you do a Google search for "'Matrix' co-creator ready to be whole new woman", you'll find that Larry Wachowski has been living as a woman for some time, and is planning to have a sex-change operation. (The article comes from the Chicago Sun-Times, April 29 2004, but it is now in the paid subscriber-only archives. It is referenced in many places on the internet, and in this article.) It seems to me this might be a sign of his having been the target of disruptive mind control designed to throw him into emotional/sexual confusion during the creation of the Matrix sequels. I know they claim to have planned all the sequels in advance, but the second and third show a definite drop in quality. They're complex and full of buzzwords, but they just don't resonate.

I wasn't impacted very strongly by the Matrix, but I was hit hard by Dark City, and to a lesser extent, eXistenZ. My awakening has been occuring due to many little shocks, though--not one big shock.

The Matrix helped wake a lot of people up, but it also created a lot of noise. It has somewhat "cheapened" the terms used to describe our false reality. When you explain to someone that we really are trapped in an artificial construct, they can laugh because they've already heard the story--from a big budget Hollywood movie full of guns and kung fu. The Matrix has placed many Gnostic concepts squarely within the realm of entertaining fiction. I've been thinking that it could be very detrimental if these ideas continue to flood into pop culture, because then they will be slaughtered and fetishized rather than nurtured and respected. But then again I suppose the wise man can recognize truth wherever it's found and whatever its form.

--Justin

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Youv'e got some very important points there, cz. Couldn't have put it better myself.
While I enjoyed the other two, the first is definitely "first order" in feel and meaning.
There is a danger that when important ideas are popularized, and muddied by that, the original point gets lost until someone comes up with another way to put it.

Baudrillard, who wrote "Simulacra and Simulation," a book which explores the themes the Matrix narratively structures, has said that the popular versions of his ideas have nothing in common with his actual points.

Well, what the heck does he know?
I kid, I kid!

But I still like the movies. I'll remain willfully inconsistent until he next kick in the butt I will no doubt recieve. As will we all, my friends, as will we all!

33 (edited by Xenopope 2004-09-17 21:02:52)

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

" . . . Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to understand that there is no spoon, but only yourself."

I am as is Void.

34 (edited by freebird 2004-09-18 01:37:27)

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Read through the article about Larry Wachowsky czyx.  Quite interesting.  It has to take some very harsh programming to want to go through the obviously very painful procedure of changing sex.  I have felt it would be like being a back to front woman somehow.  That one would want to bring to the front sort of.  Another thing is the question if the story is true of course.
About the popularizing aspect; I try to use my own pictures, coin my own terms etc.,  and look at things from different viewpoints or angles if you like.  I see the Matrix/The Field/Duality as a huge machinery somehow; that perpetuates tristesse.
H

35 (edited by morningsun76 2004-09-18 11:12:04)

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

freebird wrote:

Read through the article about Larry Wachowsky czyx.  Quite interesting.  It has to take some very harsh programming to want to go through the obviously very painful procedure of changing sex.

What I'm about to say here goes beyond what freebird had to say, it's more of a general commentary rather than a reply to any particular person.

Since the person in question is one of the creators of the Matrix movies, I guess it's easy to assume they've been "programmed" in some way.    That may well be the case here for all any of us know.   

But speaking of transgender people in general it's a mistake to think that they're somehow victims of programming, modern society, on anything of the sort.  It simply doesn't fit with what is known about these people.   

The question of sexual identity is parallel to that of sexual orientation and most of the same concepts apply.  We do know that gay and lesbian people exist and have existed in all cultures, in all races, in all parts of the world, in all classes, in all times.   Virtually all will tell you that they know they've always been "different" in some way but before their teenage years couldn't explain how.  Over the last few years there have been several studies where distinct physiological differences have been found in the brains of gays as compared to straight people.    Not to oversimplify, but it seems that who's gay or not is pretty much a genetic lottery.  I mention all this because the same will be found for trans people, with the exception that they represent a much more rare example than do gays/lesbians.   

I know if one doesn't have a GLBT person in their immediate family and doesn't really know any, and consequently hasn't done any research on the subject,  it's easy to speculate about whether these people are somehow horribly misguided, or warped, or bohemian freaks who "reject the values of society" or have been somehow mind-controlled.   But if that's the perception of many people, especially those in power, it also follows that it's no big deal to deny this entire group of people civil rights.   That's the danger, and it's very real and is going on around the world today as we speak -- people are being discriminated against, jailed, and sometimes killed due to these questions.  Therefore, this is an issue where it's very important for everyone to know what the real story is and to make informed decisions, and form opinions based on education and knowledge, not speculation.

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Sorry I have been blunt.  I am also  imprisoned sort of on a daily basis by a very blunt attitude.  Have written something else about that.  The issue is very complex.  I know.  Personally I am just prevented from having a life as a straight person basically.  What I wrote and feel relates to that I am an earth-character and tend to image things physically sort of.  Well; it seems like an extremely painful procedure, and is the end result really certain?  I just feel like saying: "Larry don't do it", or something.  To be gay or lesbian seems like a different thing to me, as we are talking about gender issues.  I know lots of great gay people like artists and so on.  I'm in full support of gay rights.  Have always been especially since I had a very good gay friend as a young student.  (I think we're a bit sidetracked from the original thread by the way.)
H

37 (edited by morningsun76 2004-09-19 14:32:02)

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

czyx wrote:

The Matrix helped wake a lot of people up, but it also created a lot of noise. It has somewhat "cheapened" the terms used to describe our false reality. When you explain to someone that we really are trapped in an artificial construct, they can laugh because they've already heard the story--from a big budget Hollywood movie full of guns and kung fu. The Matrix has placed many Gnostic concepts squarely within the realm of entertaining fiction. I've been thinking that it could be very detrimental if these ideas continue to flood into pop culture, because then they will be slaughtered and fetishized rather than nurtured and respected. But then again I suppose the wise man can recognize truth wherever it's found and whatever its form.

I've been wondering about this trend myself.  There's been a lot of movies over the past few years with scripts bringing some very spiritual and occult themes direct to the masses.  I wonder if the reason that this is occuring in what is otherwise a time of increasing spiritual darkness in the world is because people are ALREADY naturally becoming more and more aware of spiritual truths, due to 4D waves, the end of the cycle, or whatever the case may be.    This great awakening naturally, if indeed occurring, naturally poses a threat to the existing power structures of this planet. 

I suggest that these powers have anticipated the threat and are attempting to head it off by "hijacking the waves" so to speak via disinformation -- the  Magic of Holly-Wood.   In this case, since people are awakening to the real matrix, create a movie in tune with that theme, ie, "The Matrix," which has a great story and tells almost the whole story that people have already realized by intuition -- but with one or two deadly disinformational twists which will serve to keep the masses willingly subservient to the system rather than realizing just how bad off they are in this reality.  Case in point: In the movie, "Zion" is the last refuge of humanity against the controllers and their army of machines.  The film serves to impart the idea on a subliminal level that "Zionism Is Good Thing."    I don't know much about the history of zionism, but from what I have read it seems that in reality, Zionism = NWO total fascist control of all peoples.   

Comments?

freebird wrote:

Well; it seems like an extremely painful procedure, and is the end result really certain? ...  To be gay or lesbian seems like a different thing to me, as we are talking about gender issues.

No doubt,  it seems like a very traumatic type of situation to be in or go through.   Though from my own experience, and from the research I've read, I'm willing to bet that in 20 years or so it will be a well established fact that the issues of sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity are all interrelated. Just differing manifestations of various biological possibilities.  Or I could be wrong, who knows.  I do know that there's still a lot of extreme hate remaining in this world towards an entire class of human beings which is very damaging psychologically and spiritually, and if anything these people need a lot of extra love, compassion and understanding. Anyway I felt the need to comment on that statement in particular, it wasn't a personal response really.

freebird wrote:

About the popularizing aspect; I try to use my own pictures, coin my own terms etc.,  and look at things from different viewpoints or angles if you like.  I see the Matrix/The Field/Duality as a huge machinery somehow; that perpetuates tristesse.

What's tristesse?

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

morningsun76 wrote:

I suggest that these powers have anticipated the threat and are attempting to head it off by "hijacking the waves" so to speak via disinformation -- the  Magic of Holly-Wood.   In this case, since people are awakening to the real matrix, create a movie in tune with that theme, ie, "The Matrix," which has a great story and tells almost the whole story that people have already realized by intuition -- but with one or two deadly disinformational twists which will serve to keep the masses willingly subservient to the system rather than realizing just how bad off they are in this reality.

Yes indeed! It is a known tactic among intelligence agencies to create revolutionary groups in anticipation of their creation by the people, and to seed these groups with their own agents. When the people start looking for a way to fight the repressive regime, they flock to these groups instead of starting their own. Then the powers that be can control discourse, steering it away from their own weaknesses. They can keep the people arguing with each other instead of actually doing something, or they can make sure the people attack only windmills. The structure of the ideas presented in the original Matrix might control discourse, and the meaningless noise and informational glut of the sequels might cause pointless arguments and indecision.

I thought the "coppertop" analogy in the Matrix movie was too simplistic, as was the idea that those who enslave us are nothing more than the machines we created. Raw energy is probably not all the real control system is after. It may be after many additional things--such as the computing power of the human mind--or it may be after nothing, being the creation of entities who keep us jailed and weak out of pure fear over what we might do to them if freed! The idea that we alone introduced the matrix control system through our technology is a suspiciously anemic concept. The sequels seemed to present the idea that we are alone in the universe, surrounded by our toys, and that if we wish to do so, we can arrive at the "wisdom" that our lifelike machines are actually alive. The machines we produce are supposedly going to have souls or spirits or something by virtue of our imagination. The vibe I got from the Matrix sequels is that the artificial lifeforms our culture is destined to produce should either be "forgiven" or "loved" rather than dismantled or never created in the first place. The Matrix movies say "this is inevitable, how are you going to react to it?" rather than "this is avoidable, here is how desire for its construction arises in the human soul."

Technology isn't developed in a vacuum. All technological innovations are rooted in the needs--or perceived needs--of the culture that produces them. Right now, our culture thinks it understands what a human needs: comfort, money, power, control, sex, success, adulation, orderliness, etc. It is insanity to produce sophisticated technology when you have no understanding of your own needs! This is like building a golden statue with clay feet, as in the biblical dream of King Nebuchadnezzer. The statue may be beautiful, but with such a weak foundation it cannot stand for long. The culture may be technologically advanced, but if it the technology is built by shallow idiots, it will at some point impinge upon the rights of those who aren't shallow, and they will shake it off and destroy it.

The Matrix movies seem to want us to accept the robots as something more than they are, by seducing us into believing the robots have souls, (that glowing golden stuff Neo saw) and that the souls were generated by us (despite our blatant ignorace of "soul") through the workings of technology on physical matter!  But I don't think the creations of idiots have souls, only that the creations can be sufficiently complex to attract souls, like a moth to a flame, or a spider to a sweet glue trap. We shouldn't try to live with robots and smile at their trapped souls while patting ourselves on the back for being so loving and accepting. Rather, we should work to discern the nature of our own souls, their flesh-and-blood traps, the prison within which the traps are kept, the jailers, and the greater laws to which all of it is subjected. Discerning these laws, discussing them, believing them, taking them seriously, celebrating them, and following them is the true work. It may also be what the rulers of the matrix are most afraid of!

--Justin

39 (edited by morningsun76 2004-09-19 18:26:32)

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

czyx wrote:

The Matrix movies seem to want us to accept the robots as something more than they are, by seducing us into believing the robots have souls, (that glowing golden stuff Neo saw) and that the souls were generated by us (despite our blatant ignorace of "soul") through the workings of technology on physical matter!  But I don't think the creations of idiots have souls, only that the creations can be sufficiently complex to attract souls, like a moth to a flame, or a spider to a sweet glue trap. We shouldn't try to live with robots and smile at their trapped souls while patting ourselves on the back for being so loving and accepting. Rather, we should work to discern the nature of our own souls, their flesh-and-blood traps, the prison within which the traps are kept, the jailers, and the greater laws to which all of it is subjected. Discerning these laws, discussing them, believing them, taking them seriously, celebrating them, and following them is the true work. It may also be what the rulers of the matrix are most afraid of!

Nicely said.  This line of thinking naturally leads to the sticky question of what exactly it means to be human, to have a soul, or to have individual rights.  If we create artificial beings that look and act human, do we have the right to "retire" them a la Blade Runner?   Might there come a point where we are no longer able to say for sure whether or not they are conscious and mentally aware?  At this point in time, our current technology limits us to computers running programs which at their most basic level are electrical on/off signals organized to run specific routines of code written by man.  But the time is coming when machines will be interwoven with living tissue.. perhaps with brain tissue in one way or another.   This ethical question might become a reality.   Star Trek: The Next Generation had an excellent episode where Data (the android) was put on trial for his life by those who didn't consider him "alive;" it was an excellent treatment of the subject.  Lluckily, this is at present a question still in the realm of science fiction (at least as far as I've seen!)

At present, though, the real-life matrix is being constructed.  We're already at the point where every move we make is permanently logged (courtesy of GPS cellphones, EZ-Pass, credit cards and ATMS, etc), your conversations can be monitored at any time via remote activation of your cellphone mic, every website you read and every character you type can be (and probably is being) intercepted and logged, etc ad nauseum.   Looking ahead, the simultaneous advancement of technology, coupled with the continuing dumbing-down of the population, and overall trend towards totalitarian government, is leading us towards an eventual global theocracy.   What I have in mind is a futuristic version of the collective beehive-like societal structure outlined by Ayn Rand in her 50-page book Anthem (which you can find free online, and is a must-read.)

As far as the Matrix wanting us to accept robots as having souls, it seems to be true, and at the same time trying to get us to forget that people themselves have souls, and instead look at each other as animals -- a big flock of sheep, cheering on the wolf for choosing a different sheep to slaughter today.   

On the other hand, you look at the big picture, it's hard not to see the elitist point of view to some degree.  Since the idiot masses have freewill but many choose to remain ignorant and act foolishly, it can be argued that they deserve the servitude and it is their rightful place.  I know I get very frustrated with people in general for the same reason, and have little sympathy for the plights of those who are poor and downtrodded by their own hand.  I believe in the saying "god helps those who help themselves."    I think that holding individual rights sacred is the ideal system, and that America came the closest to reaching that goal in principle by enshrining such into the Constitution of 1787, but in reality we never did live up to that lofty ideal. Rather quickly, monied interests were able to seize control of the system.   As a result, today many of the socialist states of Western Europe do a better job of sharing resources and protecting their people than we do.   So maybe there is no one final answer and the truth lies in constantly adjusting the scales in order to try and preserve some semblance of balance.  But I guess I'm getting off-topic again!  So, 'nuff said.

40 (edited by freebird 2004-09-24 03:41:01)

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Hi Morningsun!  Tristesse is a french word borrowed in many languages that describes a sort of a state of sadness.  I don't speak french, but reckon that the word 'triste' means sad.  It is also taken up as such in for instance norwegian.  -Sad=trist.  I wrote a thing here I called 'the experience' in an attempt to describe in a sort of a written picture these things.  Possibly somehow the matrix.
I'll read through your post more thoroughly.  Don't really know much about gender issues.  There is a guy at the Swerdlow web-site that discusses alternate sexual identities by the way.  He is gay himself and a councellor or a therapist.  Has written some interesting articles.  Perhaps that might be of interest.
H

41 (edited by Atlantis 2004-09-23 04:10:23)

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Some perspectives

http://www.probe.org/docs/gnostic.html

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

Atlantis wrote:

Some perspectives

http://www.probe.org/docs/gnostic.html

Um, ok, this website belongs to "Probe Ministries" who describe themselves as follows:

Mission
Probe's mission is to present the Gospel to communities, nationally and internationally, by providing life-long opportunities to integrate faith and learning through balanced, biblically based scholarship, training people to love God by renewing their minds and equipping the Church to engage the world for Christ.

The essence of the article is that The Matrix is not a Christian movie, and that the Gnostic texts, particularly the Gospel of Thomas, describe a Jesus unlike the one described in the four "official" gospels chosen from many by the early Roman church at the Council of Nicea.   After a brief commentary on Gnosticism, the article concludes:

The Gnostic view of Jesus was rejected by the early church and should be rejected today.

Well, at least it's a SHORT bash by Christians at another religious viewpoint.  There's definitely something to be said for brevity.

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

morningsun76 wrote:
Atlantis wrote:

Some perspectives

http://www.probe.org/docs/gnostic.html

Um, ok, this website belongs to "Probe Ministries" who describe themselves as follows:

Mission
Probe's mission is to present the Gospel to communities, nationally and internationally, by providing life-long opportunities to integrate faith and learning through balanced, biblically based scholarship, training people to love God by renewing their minds and equipping the Church to engage the world for Christ.

The essence of the article is that The Matrix is not a Christian movie, and that the Gnostic texts, particularly the Gospel of Thomas, describe a Jesus unlike the one described in the four "official" gospels chosen from many by the early Roman church at the Council of Nicea.   After a brief commentary on Gnosticism, the article concludes:

You can or better have to bypass the Church.
However you have to take God and the Christ energy very serious. 

Jezus and Christ are symbolic/allegoric terms to explain the truth about free will and the fall of man.

The Gospel of Thomas is very allegoric, containing a lot of truth.


The Gnostic view of Jesus was rejected by the early church and should be rejected today.

Well, at least it's a SHORT bash by Christians at another religious viewpoint.  There's definitely something to be said for brevity.

Yes, that's the reason why I posted this website URL. 

It gives a lot of stuff to think about what the difference is between the Church Christianity Matrix-Christ and the Christ as a higher-dimensional force used by the Gnostics.

Atlantean Magic: safe, simple and enjoying a good lifetime.

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

For those who don't know, the graphic novel 'The Invisibles' was a huge influence on 'The Matrix' to the point where the writer (Grant Morrison) was considering suing. A fellow seeker friend of mine who is into graphic novels suggested a read the series and I kind of scoffed at him since I was reading Asimov when I was 12. But I did and it is truly one of those 'awakening' experiences. A friend of this friend even claimed that after reading 'The Invisibles' he was able to cure himself of cancer.

I am currently re-reading it at the moment and still find new stuff in it. Not bad for a 'comic book'.

brain BAD! heart GOOD!

Re: "The Matrix" (The Movie)

[center]PsychoPractor

The Invisibles[/center]



From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invisibles

The plot follows (more or less) a single cell of The Invisible College, a secret organization battling against physical and psychic oppression using time travel, magic, meditation, and physical violence.

For most of the series, the team includes leader King Mob; Lord Fanny, a Brazilian shaman and transvestite; Boy, a former member of the NYPD; Ragged Robin, a telepath with a mysterious past; and Jack Frost, a young hooligan from Liverpool who may be the next Buddha.

Their enemies are the Archons of Outer Church, interdimensional alien gods who have already enslaved most of the human race without its knowledge.

The Invisibles was Morrison's first major creator-owned title for DC Comics and it drew from his Zenith strip as well as 1990s conspiracy culture.

His INTENT was to create a HyperSigil to jump-start the culture in a more positive direction.

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