Topic: Dan Winter

Is anyone here familiar with Dan Winter's work? Last night I just discovered some stuff written by him. It was some sort of hypothesis stating that gravity is caused by recursion a la the golden spiral. His work is often written in a free-flow style that at times is nearly impossible to follow. I also stumbled upon his web site which included some New Age stuff about Nephilim and ETs from Orion and a whole lot of other things which turned me off. Anyway I also saw which has information about a legal battle Winter is in with a Meru Foundation over who-knows-what. I was just wondering if anyone here is familiar with Winter's writings and could give me some sort of summary? I'll probably be browsing his site for the rest of the week since the physics he discusses is very intriguing.

Re: Dan Winter

Montalk -
I'm interested to hear what your experience has been with Winter's material.  {I've not reviewed it}

Re: Dan Winter

I consider Dan Winter mentally unstable and his writings to be largely incoherent. But you can always extract the good stuff from anything. There is good stuff in his material, though often only because it has been plagiarized from a valid source.

There are other personalities like him online functioning as traps for those who get too wrapped up in the incoherent material thinking it's really something, using esoteric sounding science to actually pull people into a downward spiral (no pun intended).

Examples of others like Dan Winter: Drunvalo Melchizedek and Sylvester H. Christie ( Take a look at Sylvester Christie's site - very similar to Dan Winter, right down to the plagiarism,  disinformative slant via the endoresement of ORMUS and white powder gold, and using convoluted language to intellectually ensnare the gullible.

So my advice is, don't take Dan Winter's word for anything - let it be food for thought, but don't ever think that because you can't understand something it must be profound and thus important. Feel free to examine his material, but be careful and extra discerning.

Can't advise anyone to stay away from any material, as what makes sense, makes sense regardless of who says it. I have found a few good ideas in Dan Winter's material, but have had to discard most of it because it was either blatantly false, disinformative, or incoherent.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

4 (edited by cameron 2004-04-15 19:28:32)

Re: Dan Winter

Thanks, Thomas.

This brings up an interesting idea.  It's important to gain a straight forward knowledge-base of reproducible physical properties (quantum physics, general/special relativity).  This can allow for theoretical ideas which fall short of logical consistency to be more easily discerned.  There are many great thinkers who have written non-technical (big picture) books on such fundamental physics,

- Albert Einstein
- Murry Gell-Mann
- Richard Feynman
- Michio Kaku
- many more...

Moving into the area of speculative scientific study, one should be particularly aware of the potential side-paths already "blazed" by others.  It is wise not to venture far until the aforementioned knowledge-base is build.  Others have said, 'no knowledge is better than false knowledge'.

There is also the (possibly inevitable) incarnational "deprogramming" that takes place prior to a solid knowledge-base being built.  Perhaps not for all who begin the Path, but for most, this takes place.  After the deprogramming, it is only the purest intuition that will lead one to the beginning of the learning cycle.

As I say, the path is marked with blazes and signs.  Not all signs are still valid.  Some have aged and become rotten.  Some have been turned intentionally to point in the opposite direction.  As well, one can follow a path marked with blazes for some time before realizing the color of the blaze had changed after the last intersection was chosen.


Re: Dan Winter

I ran across the Drunvalo info while living in California - I have read one of his books - I am alternately intrigued and and then disgusted with the material. In more lucid moments, I decided that if he was "real" he would not be so "out there". According to "Old Chinese" the real teachers are hidden, you have to find them - when the time is right and you are ready.
However, I am curious - do you think anything he has put forth is worthwhile and what specifically (if not all of it) is bunk??

Re: Dan Winter

Hi Perette,

The problem with Drunvalo is that he consistently comes up with sensational stories that can neither be confirmed nor denied. It's a clever trick that plays on the similarity between truth and privately observed events both being non-disprovable. Truth can't be disproven because it's valid, and private events cannot be disproven because no one else was around to say otherwise - his trick is to equate the two because of this similarity. So the spectacular nature of Drunvalo's stories coupled with the fact that it cannot be disproven fools a lot of people who don't consult their intuition or check the logic of what he's saying. When cornered on any apparent inconsistencies, he always manages to wiggle away without answering the question.

If you want specific examples, take a look at any of his interviews where he discusses what the secret government is up to, what his contacts have told him, what secret physics experiments are going on that no one other than he can confirm are happening, etc... Mixes a lot of fact with fiction. If you make a map of the ideology he's propagating, you can see connections to numerous shady characters and what appears to be a general disinformation campaign he's part of.

To be as popular as he is, he's got to have some truth to what he's saying. But I noticed that everything he says that seems valid is already well known in published literature elsewhere, and he plagiarizes a lot of other people's work as his own and adds a fluffy gloss to it to support his various stories. All it does is prop him up as a public persona so that more attend his expensive workshops.

There are numerous warning flags in his material, like the emphasis upon dropping any critical thinking or intellect and just going with the "heart" (which causes his followers to then not differentiate between mind programming, manipulated emotions, and genuine intuition).

But there is more sinister elements to Drunvalo. Here are what a couple sources on the  net have to say:

From this link.

In the late 80's I met someone who calls himself   "drunvalo" (at that time, he had not changed his name yet to Melchezidek, but kept his natural name of Bernard Perona, although he used to call himself as AKBAR {or GOD in the Mid Eastern practices - that didn't sell you know...people wouldn't "believe" THAT} before his "drunvalo incarnation") - I was introduced to him by Bruce Mace of Aspen Colorado - Bruce had told me that he really thought I should meet drunvalo. I met Bruce at a show and tell that I participated in while in Aspen   - I showed Bruce I could find spots on his body with my scanning system in a non-invasive manner that looked like they needed a chiropractic adjustment - such is how I got involved with these people... Bruce had later revealed some background of himself to me after a while after he thought he had figured me out and proceeded to share with me the "plan" they had.  He told me after living for a while in Aspen in his earlier years he was basically forced to "leave the country", as he felt that he was treated as an outcast...  So he told me that he traveled the world as a young man and ended up living in Afghanistan, trained by the Mujahadeen "types" in  various skills..(see references: this section article "CIA in SouthWest Asia", and this "Child Soldiers" - see the section on the Mujahadeen training of children - I seems to me that  it is important to understand the underlying psychology in  "Child Soldiers" - see the section on the Mujahadeen training of children - I seems to me that  it is important to understand the underlying psychology in the depth of what has been happening)

Bruce showed me what those skills were in the next ten years... frankly very amazing, this "network" is and how it is setup and what it intends to do...  Now drunvalo after a while had insisted we all open our hearts (put away our logical minds) and give all the controllers and manipulators of the world, the benefit of the doubt - that reaching the children of the world is important (see reference 2 above).  To this day he says he says he continues to "keep his heart open" and still does not discriminate at all whom he provides his acquired data to...  I wonder at what cost?

I should have realized back in one of my early workshops where I had found out that he had invited a representative of the C.I.A. and a representative of the security service of the People's Republic of Red China.   I asked both the Chinese spy agency and their counterpart in the US why they were at my workshop - both said drunvalo told them he wanted funding, his school wanted funding, and that he could convince me to cooperate.  I guess I was a commodity... These "agents" told me during a lunch break they wanted ways to control people better... I told both of them, sorry, get yourself another stooge... Now why would drunvalo have wanted these controllers in my workshop in the first place!?  My workshop was about showing people how to heal themselves!?  Of course this workshop talked about "completing" the feedback scanning loop.  He and the others over the years constantly clamoured for a FULL BODY energy visualizing analyzer... They wanted me to provide it or if I wouldn't they would put people in my midst who they thought I would reveal such to. (hahahahah)

It was not until the early 90's that I was able to fully see what drunvalo meant by his actions which I saw were quite different from his words. You can also see much of my data being used (without permission and without citing my ownership or discovery of such) and that of others in his presentations he makes to people.  I hope on this website you can get the missing pieces to the full picture of what has transpired over these many years.  It amazes me to see how gullible good hearted people can be when presented with "soft" sounding words...

Drunvalo's been talking about and working with "indigo kids" and "super psychic children" (from China of all places - compare to the above quote) -- I have a suspicion that he's fronting for a government effort to scope out and recruit these kids into mind control projects, remote viewing and psychic assassination and such. New Age workshops are involved in this as well. There's info on the net about this - do a search.

Another commentary:


This is the page of the "Flower of Life" dudes, whose paradigm is featuring the first part of "Matrix 4". They do teach, but however they do not nearly teach as coherent and brilliant as Mr.Topper does. For me, they're jumping around arbitrarily from one subject (Egyptian pyramids) to another subject (consciousness) without really explaining the link inbetween.

What's more, the "main founder" of this stuff, "Drunvalo Melchizedek" describes himself as a "walk-in". That means, an "entity" has taken over the soul that inhabited that body before. Drunvalo states it was a deal, the other soul promised him something. However, precisely the "walk-in" phenomenon has been characterized by Mr.Topper as the "favourite way of higher dimensional negatively oriented entities to avoid the memory-loss during an incarnation", since higher negative beings tend not to take any risk, but to play safe whenever they can.

In other words, the possibility that Mr.Drunvalo Melchizedek is now inhabited by a spirit that claims to be benevolent but is in reality highly negatively oriented is...well, high. Several visitors of his seminars have reported that, while they were in meditation, they saw an "ugly astral face" checking them out. Other reports clearly show that Mr.Melchizedek is a bigmouth, who comes along with "sensational" news and then always somehow "sneaks out" of what seemed to be so promising.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.

Re: Dan Winter

montalk wrote:

don't ever think that because you can't understand something it must be profound and thus important.

Amen!  Thank you.......the same goes for messageboards too.  wink    If you don't understand someone's post, no matter how many times you read it, chances are it's not you.  It's just gibberish, masquerading as profound importance!   And I'm not talking about times when it's a subject you don't understand......I'm talking about posts that just make NO grammetical sense, and sound like gibberish, but you can tell the poster is trying to sound all profound and stuff.  Very annoying!   But don't be fooled, like montalk said.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy shit ... what a ride!"  - Anonymous
"I get by with a little help from my (higher density) friends."

Re: Dan Winter

Excellent. Thanks for all this info Montalk. When you research something you really dig into it.


Re: Dan Winter

What is of profound imortance when the world is not limited, like you said, it is true.  The traditional idea of uphold politics, ride a concept into the earth, wipe your mouth, then smile is unnoticed to the consciousness, only not unnoticed to Time, that is your very Self.  Art is more than the right brain, better than a belief system, it is not "there is no spoon", it is "there are more things in heaven and earth than a spoon can acknowledge".  We are in God, each one, a parallel line meeting, in the ideal, in our lives, we are not small, and, ultimately, nothing is small.

When a person says, in the time, or, more appropriately, meditation: I think I see a Golden Spiral, we can agree, why not, there are golden spirals in almost everything, even things unseen.  Are, or should we, be against a golden spiral????  Not at all, we can use golden spirals to make phi ratios, and thing that Dan Winter plagerized or said, like energy, or whatever.  Politics in the case of incursion, proper, should thus be overlooked, I say.

Well, that's my two sense.  Look to yourselves, because it is a larger scene.


Re: Dan Winter

Thanks for making my point.

Truth is truth regardless of who says it - and if reading something by even the most incredulous person prods you into recognizing some potentially truthful idea, then what is the harm in reading it? Truth is something you can figure out for yourself via inner intuitive confirmation matched with external experience and checked by logical analysis.

The source's credibility or lack thereof are no standards by which to accept or reject a potentially truthful principle. So if Dan Winter discusses fibonacci spirals, the implosion process, the PHI ratio, the turtle shell hexagon torus, - great, I recognize these are valid principles. But I let neither his dubious credibility throw these things out, nor do I let the validity of these ideas give added credence to the other ideas of his I find questionable on logical and intuitive grounds.

Acquiring fringe knowledge is like digging for diamonds in a mine field.


Re: Dan Winter

So, who should be the judge whether any source is credible or not, one's "system", one's "truth", or void?  For instance, a nonenergy system, and also, free-energy, which one do you think exists, using the example of the prophets, and surely no man is a prophet, but Truth, alone.  We look without, seeking that Truth, endowed in mind, the substance of Being.  Now, there is not any source, only spirit and truth, along with those parallel, who meet as one in heaven, who is to say there is no mind, and if so, what should be done, now that free-energy has become so obvious?  Furthermore, what is meditation?


Re: Dan Winter

What's going on?  I said the example of the Mind when what is infinite?  Democracy, infinite Democracy.:)  Now, maybe we have heard of "astral atoms" (now we are talking about meditation, i.e. Concentration, this is fundamental to art.) Do you think there are "astral atoms", why, and, or why not??  This is to be distinguished from the notion of everything being the Astral Plane.  Now, there are options, what ought our notion of Time to be, and, what is the nature of philosophical Free-Energy??

Just checking up on yall. smile